Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 May 17, 2010 9:26 pm Hi, 1st post here so be kind. I am looking for a living room carpet and we were looking at wool carpet but with another baby on the way we are having second thoughts. At Solomon's we saw a SDN provided by Advantage flooring that has a 20yr warranty. It is the Tiffany that we are interested in and is rated extra hvy duty and comes in a rectangle pattern that is lcl-cut/loop. It is a nice pattern and the carpet is really soft and nice. Has anyone got any info, experience or thoughts on this carpet? Also I live in the tropics and every carpet shop here says that rubber underlay perishes in the tropics so they only want to provide foam. Fact or fiction? Re: Mess-defying carpet? 2May 17, 2010 9:49 pm Carpet Call / Solomons are promoting their SDN's pretty solidly right now. They used to also promote polypropylene as their "party proof" carpet. SDN's are, by their very nature very good at resisting fading and resisting bleaches etc (as they are solution dyed and are solid). SDN's though still require a stain blocking treatment. It assists in two ways, it prevents soiling becoming stains and it restricts the oily nature of the fibre from excessive soiling (oil attracts dirt). By following the manufacturers reccomendations and having your carpet professionally cleaned every 12 months, you do run the risk of depleting the beneficial nature of the flurocarbon additive. SDN's normally carry the same or similar conditions to that of white nylons (regular nylon carpets). So the nasty spills such as strong dyes, hot coffee, sauce, mustard etc are generally not covered. I could be wrong, so best you give them the benefit of the doubt and ask them for a copy of the t&c of the warranty plus a care instructions guide. Smartstrand, as you may have read, leaves SDN for dead in the cleaning and staining stakes. Not sure where you are exactly to know if you can access it locally though. Most LCL's in SDN are reasonably good quality though, so if you do love that carpet and it's within your price range etc, and you are fully understanding in the cleaning / maintenance / warranty area, then it could be a good purchase. I have not heard anything in 18 years about rubber airstep perishing in warmer climates. Perhaps phone Bridgestone directly and ask them. Carpet Call / Solomons only sell rubber here in Victoria, so that's weird they would say that (unless it's true). Your Dunlop underlay is all Ultra Fresh treated, so that tends to be popular with people who want to restrict organisims growing under the carpet ! Good luck and make sure you get a couple of prices on a similar quality carpet, just to be on the safe side Re: Mess-defying carpet? 3May 18, 2010 3:54 pm Thanks for the feedback , I will look further into the T&C. From what the guy said (yeah I know!) it covers all stains. I will ask him also about how long this particular SDN has been in the market to see how it goes for oil content and stainblocker. In regard to the recomended cleaning it says steam clean 18mthly. I will look to see what ia avail re Smartstrand. In regards to underlay, I have a feeling it is a bit fishy and has more to do with freight being charged by weight and the layers being sick and tired of lugging it around. Re: Mess-defying carpet? 4May 18, 2010 6:54 pm A few thoughts from me... A believe that Solomons have been selling a carpet marketed as 'party-proof' made with an advanced polypropylene fibre known as Sensitex 6000 from Northstate Carpet Mill. As much as polyprops are often bottom end carpets, this particular carpet would seem to be very serviceable with properties quite similar to Smartstrand. They are produced in low dense pile LCL designs and are thoroughly scoured AFTER tufting. These carpets boast exceptional stain resistance, fade resistance and are beautifully soft. Might be the carpet you are looking at. Seems a good carpet particularly where sun and/or ozone fading is a potential issue. Now about cleaning and topical treatments. Yes, manufacturers generally agree with Australian Standard AS/NZS3733 which states that carpets should be steam cleaned at least every 2 years. This is perfectly reasonable for carpets in regular use. Having carpets cleaned every 1 to 2 years (depending on amount of use) is proper and reasonable carpet maintenance. Where carpets are treated with topical fluorochemical protectors such as Teflon (like most nylons are) the treatments are quite durable. It is a WRONG to suggest that this treatment NEEDS to be applied after cleaning or that steam cleaning removed the treatment. This is another furphy that is often stated by people without all the facts. As I said, the factory applied treatment is a durable finish, and with correct maintenance will last for pretty much as long as the carpets. The treatments can be damaged by incorrect chemicals, and some can destroy it quite easily. Some less than professional carpet cleaners may use chemicals which will destroy the treatments. So using qualified carpet techs is more than good sense, its necessary for all sorts of reasons! The main thing that affects these treatments is they wear off over time in traffic ways. Think about it.... usually about 80% of wear and tear happens to about 20% of the carpets. So in these areas, the surface of the fibres is being abraided and the Teflon (or whatever) gets worn and less effective. The other areas of the carpets will still be fine. When steam cleaned properly using suitable detergents, there is little to no damage done to topical treatments. There are very good spot cleaners available (that the carpet owner should have on hand) to clean up spills which are suitable for treated carpets. Woolsafe approved spotters are fine, and also the Mr Nomarks range of spotters which has Teflon added to the formula. Other non-approved chemicals should be avoided, as they may not be suitable. Teflon and similar topical treatments are very effective. If these carpets get average family use, and spots are cleaned up promptly and correctly, the carpets should be steam cleaned after about 12-18 months by a qualified tech. I would suggest that after cleaning, the treatments will still be working around 95-100% in untrafficked areas and around 90% in traffic ways. After the next clean in another 12-18 months, say 90-95% in untrafficked and about 75-80% in traffic ways. By the third clean, it would be good to have Teflon applied after cleaning to the traffic ways at least, IF you want to optimise the protection that the product provides. But if not, it will still probably be around 50% effective. So you get the picture... as the traffic ways are exposed to wear & tear, the effectiveness of treatments diminishes gradually, but can be 'topped up' as need be to keep it working. By the time it's about 10 years old, the treatment will be pretty much worn off in heavy traffic ways, whether or not it has been steam cleaned. But still will be fairly effective where not trafficked. If anyone has had a carpet cleaner telling them they NEED to have their carpets re-treated after every cleaning, its more than anything an upselling attempt to make more $$ from their visit. But the common scenario is.... someone buys a new Stainmaster... abuses it for 3-5 years before the first clean, uses all sorts of incorrect products on it, and then calls in a cheapy carpet cleaner. He actually gets it up quite nicely, because the carpets do clean easily! But the chemicals he uses and residues left in the carpet may degrade the performance. Its downhill from there unless the carpets are properly restored by a qualified tech. So nylons treated with stain blockers (clear dyes that fill up the dye sites within the nylon fibre so other dyes have difficulty getting in) and fluorochemical treatments like Teflon (topical treatments that increase the surface tension of the fibres, to resist water or oil based spills from penetrating the fibres) go a long way to giving excellent performance. Maintain them well, and if you want ongoing protection, have it topped up after about the third clean and each second clean after that. Such carpets can last for 20 years or more and keep looking great if cared for this way. Ash. Re: Mess-defying carpet? 5May 18, 2010 11:08 pm Hi Slammin, Just to clarify... my previous long winded post was mostly a response to the comments by Anthony below, which I feel are a little misleading.... [SDN's are, by their very nature very good at resisting fading and resisting bleaches etc (as they are solution dyed and are solid). SDN's though still require a stain blocking treatment. It assists in two ways, it prevents soiling becoming stains and it restricts the oily nature of the fibre from excessive soiling (oil attracts dirt). By following the manufacturers recommendations and having your carpet professionally cleaned every 12 months, you do run the risk of depleting the beneficial nature of the fluorocarbon additive.] Nylon is not really "oily by nature" and proper cleaning as manufacturers recommend will only enhance the carpets' life and appearance. Steam cleaning will have little effect of removing the carpets' treatments, and this is outweighed by the benefits of removing the contaminants that can cause premature damage by abrasion. With regard to the underlay, I have found rubber underlays to sometimes become a bit powdery where exposed to direct sunlight through windows etc. I'd suggest a select Dunlop foam underlay would probably serve you best in your region. Dunlop Excellay is by far the better underlay in their range. The Dunlop Springtred range is probably what they will suggest, and they will say that Excellay is a commercial underlay. Forget that.. it is still better for domestic carpets and worth paying extra for! Ash. Re: Mess-defying carpet? 6May 19, 2010 7:51 am Ash, I am talking about exactly that. Most people use the cheap 3 room for 50 bucks blokes who whack some glowing by-product from A nuclear waste dump on the carpet and scrub away, destroying the coatings, destroying the heat set of the twist etc. You know your industry is bad, that's why you have Woolsafe and ACCI so people know who TO use and who NOT to use. All carpets have a spinning lubricant applied and it never ALL comes off, even with advanced scouring. Poly's attract soiling like bees to honey because of this. You just have to rub a poly (especially a poly rug) and touch your palms together to feel the oily nature. The stain treatment on SDN's is seriously just as much there to restrict soiling as it is to restrict stains. Re: Mess-defying carpet? 7May 19, 2010 11:06 am FIRSTLY, APOLOGIES TO SLAMMIN FOR THE FOLLOWING EXCHANGE BETWEEN ANTHONY AND I. Feel free to ignore all this. anthony_carter (1) You know your industry is bad, (2) The stain treatment on SDN's is seriously just as much there to restrict soiling as it is to restrict stains. (2) This statement is quite accurate. (1) Anthony, I wouldn't say that. The carpet cleaning industry has and continues to be transformed, and there are plenty of good operators around the country. Yes there are still the cheapies who can damage carpets in one day, which is why consumers need to chose carefully. But saying that "the industry is bad" and that "steam cleaning risks damaging carpet treatments" is not at all helpful. ACCI made a big difference from the mid 90's. Other training organisations such as Jena Dyco, ITI, IICRC, Woolsafe and others are continually training tehnicians to become highly qualified expert techs. The age of the guy buying a cheap machine, throwing it in the ute and knocking on your door is mostly a thing of the past. Carpet cleaners are led to training by many means. Just recently, some guys got onto my carpet cleaners forum doing research because they want to get into carpet cleaning. They've been welcomed, shown the way and given advice by the best in the industry. The association I'm in, (the Advantage Group Carpet Cleaners of WA) have a mentoring programme for newer techs, and our Constitution requires that we are all trained to high standards. Newbies are mentored and supported as they gain their accreditations. The spinning lubricant you mentioned is an issue with some carpets, mostly solution dued carpets (including Smartstrand I would imagine) and scouring after tufting goes a long way to improving the carpet's final state. This is why some SDN's that are so commonplace are not all they are cracked up to be. Because there is no dyeing process after tufting, some of the oil is left on the carpet. Some is flashed off in ovens, but thats not as effective as dyeing, scouring and then flashing of the residues. This is why the big push to SDN's is not so great. But with all that, its not true to say that "nylons are oily". Its more the fact that in the case of some cheaper mass produced solution dyed carpets, there is insufficient removal of what we call "extractable matter" before carpets are sold. Solution dyed carpets are very much OVER sold, with retailers talking about carrots and apples, but conveniently NOT telling the other side to the story. Ash. Re: Mess-defying carpet? 8May 19, 2010 4:41 pm Quote: exceptional stain resistance, fade resistance and are beautifully soft. Might be the carpet you are looking at. Yes it sounds like 1 and the same, mess-defying - party proof etc. It appears from your post that the most important aspect of any carpet is following the manu'ers recommendations BUT there is no mention of re-tefloning or treating the carpet so I will check with the rep. Thanks for the reply and ongoing discussion, it is interesting as a newb, so go for it. In regards to the underlay, Bridgestone is saying it is guaranteed for the life of the carpet.... so 20 yr gaurantee for the carpet must be matched. Hmmmmmmmm. At this stage I'm tempted to just use foam regardless of warranties etc. What has me going back to rubber though is that I was taught rubber has a better feel underfoot and also that becase there is more air circulation it dries faster than foam? Re: Mess-defying carpet? 9May 19, 2010 10:11 pm Underlay's lifetime guarantee is more a sales ploy than anything else. Hardly anyone ever makes a claim despite a lot of their lower rated underlays collapsing within about 8 years. This is because most consumers wouldn't know if the underlay has had it. And then if they do, the guarantee only covers replacement of the actual underlay. It doesn't cover removing furniture, lifting carpets, labour to remove and fit new underlay, refitting carpets and replacing furniture. So hardly anybody could be bothered. Its a Clayton's guarantee! Again, the better choice of underlay for YOUR installation is Dunlop Excellay. Second choice would be Dunlop Springtred Extra. Its worth paying extra for Excellay though. The carpet I was talking about made by Northstate will give good service, but avoid oily areas. With that carpet, there are a couple of cleaning methods that can be used for best results. Steam cleaning every few years, and encapsulation cleaning as required in between can keep it looking good. This is a better program than treating with Teflon. Ash. Re: Mess-defying carpet? 10Jan 24, 2011 12:35 pm Hi Ash, What underlay would you suggest for concrete floors in Perth with SDN carpet that has low height loop pile? Thanks in advance. 1 11011 1 15766 they can, it's a fairly standard solution when the slab isn't recessed. the falls need to be in the main floor, if it hasn't been done then you need to ask them to redo… 4 6595 |