Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 41Nov 14, 2007 7:37 am I'm trying to think of the advantages of direct stick versus sheet flooring over the slab and then fix to it.
Assuming 12 mm overlay flooring and 12 mm plywood and a concrete slab, this is what I can see. Advantages of direct stick: 1) Better thermal connection to the slab (good for hydronic in-slab heating) 2) No need to drive nails into the slab (good for hydronic in-slab heating - you don't want to punchure a pipe) Advantages of sheet flooring "underlay" 1) Total height = 24 mm, which matches (not sure) carpet and ceramic tile heights elsewhere in the house 2) Easier to remove for future changes 3) Softer underfoot? 4) Slab does not have to be perfectly level What do the experts and others think? Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 42Nov 14, 2007 8:37 am Carpet + underlay is generally about 15mm depending on type of underlay etc.
The other method of using hardwood battens is probably the cheapest - you can use 2nd grade 65x19 hardwood decking which you can pick-up for about $1.50 per metre. Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 43Nov 14, 2007 12:01 pm Dukekamaya Carpet + underlay is generally about 15mm depending on type of underlay etc. The other method of using hardwood battens is probably the cheapest - you can use 2nd grade 65x19 hardwood decking which you can pick-up for about $1.50 per metre. So, with carpet + underlay, for the three types of flooring: 1) Direct glue overlay flooring = 12 mm. Therefore add 3 mm to flooring, which is probably close to the glue thickness. 2) Plywood + overlay flooring = 24 mm. Therefore add 9 mm under carpet So in order to match the floor level of 12 mm plywood + 12 mm over (double or thick underly?) 3) Batons + 19 mm timber = 38 mm. Therefore add 23 mm under carpet. If you want the same floor height throughout, it looks like plywood (12 mm) + overlay flooring (12 mm) is the best way to go. Anyone know the height for layed tiles? Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 44Nov 14, 2007 12:21 pm Tiles are about 8mm-10mm laid - it depends on te size of the tile as the the thickness of the bed etc.
I just laid 300mmx300mm tiles last week using a 10mm notched trowel and it has a height of 10mm. I have also laid mosaics with a 6mm trowel which are only about 8mm high. Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 45Nov 14, 2007 12:53 pm Casa2 Dukekamaya Carpet + underlay is generally about 15mm depending on type of underlay etc. The other method of using hardwood battens is probably the cheapest - you can use 2nd grade 65x19 hardwood decking which you can pick-up for about $1.50 per metre. So, with carpet + underlay, for the three types of flooring: 1) Direct glue overlay flooring = 12 mm. Therefore add 3 mm to flooring, which is probably close to the glue thickness. 2) Plywood + overlay flooring = 24 mm. Therefore add 9 mm under carpet So in order to match the floor level of 12 mm plywood + 12 mm over (double or thick underly?) 3) Batons + 19 mm timber = 38 mm. Therefore add 23 mm under carpet. If you want the same floor height throughout, it looks like plywood (12 mm) + overlay flooring (12 mm) is the best way to go. Anyone know the height for layed tiles? Casa, I previously posted this PDF: http://www.shivermetimbers.com.au/PDFs/Products/ST243_Flooring%20Methods.pdf It shows the relative heights of different flooring. Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 46Nov 15, 2007 8:36 am Casa,
looking through my gear I have collected for floorboards I found an instruction sheet titled : Slimwood strip flooring installation on heated concrete sub-floor. It is a Boral brochure - do you have this or would you like me to fax it through to you? Send me a PM if you do. I have been informed by hubby that we will in fact be having 19mm boards. Better for long term, for when we sand them. Boral also have a self-levelling compound that can be used if there is more than 3mm deviation in slab in 3m radius. Luke, how much would be looking to pay for 19mm Blackbutt?? and what kind of sealer would you suggest? Jo Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 47Nov 15, 2007 6:15 pm Jo it depends on the width and grade - we have Feature grade 130x19 Blackbutt at the moment on special for $34.50 sq. metre. We also have Feature grade 80x19 Yellow Stringybark which is almost identical for $29.75 sq. metre.
The wider boards MUST be top-nailed whereas the narrower board can be secret-nailed. IMO tung-oil is the best finish for timber floors but you may wish to opt for a polyurethane finish. Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 48Nov 15, 2007 6:26 pm Quote: tung-oil is the best finish for timber floors but you may wish to opt for a polyurethane finish. what sort of floors duke? I did tung oil (feast watsons) on 100 year old jarrah and it made he room all darkand dingy heavy looking and collected dust like it was a sponge. (30 acres in the country) I sanded it and did a poly coating and it came up a lovely deep red colour not the dark black look that the tung oil made it. I left it for a month before I went - nope this is just too dam hard to manage and changed it. Steve Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 49Nov 16, 2007 6:20 pm My guess would be that 100 year old jarrah as great as it would look I imagine would be full of dirt and dust deep in the grain. As tung oil soaks into timber it perhaps it mixed and blackened a little. The polyurethane sits on top of the timber so may not have been affected.
Thats my wild guess anyway Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 50Nov 16, 2007 7:20 pm No it was very clean where I used it. The floors had been covered all their life. It looked great as i put it on - but then it went really dull and collected dust big time.
See my other post that I just put up. http://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?t=3902&highlight= Steve Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 51Nov 16, 2007 7:20 pm A few questions regarding tung oil versus polyurethane (or any other finish) for floorboards.
For tung oil: 1) How often do you need to recoat? 2) How soon after recoating can you put the furniture back? For polyurethane: 1) How often do you need to recoat? 2) How soon after recoating can you put the furniture back? 3) How do you avoid the coating gluing floorboards together and therefore getting unsightly gaps every few floorboards? Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 52Nov 16, 2007 8:22 pm You recoat tung oil as often as it needs it - without having to re-sand the floor. Your looking at about three days to apply tung oil, 24 hours between the coats ( generally three to four) The longer you stay off the better with any finish but essentially 24 hours after the final coat has been put on.
There are two types of polyurethane - oil-based and water-based. The 'glueing' is a problem with oil based poly'. Water based poly can be put down in one day as you can recoat after about 4 hours and there are minimal fumes compared to tung oil and oil-based poly. An oil based poly should give you about 15 years, both types will require resanding for recoating. Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 53Nov 16, 2007 9:27 pm Dukekamaya You recoat tung oil as often as it needs it - without having to re-sand the floor. Your looking at about three days to apply tung oil, 24 hours between the coats ( generally three to four) The longer you stay off the better with any finish but essentially 24 hours after the final coat has been put on. There are two types of polyurethane - oil-based and water-based. The 'glueing' is a problem with oil based poly'. Water based poly can be put down in one day as you can recoat after about 4 hours and there are minimal fumes compared to tung oil and oil-based poly. An oil based poly should give you about 15 years, both types will require resanding for recoating. Thanks Dukekamaya, Moving all the furniture out for 3 to 4 days while reapplying tung oil sounds like a nighmare, particularly for the bedrooms. You've mentioned that oil based polyurethane should last about 15 years between coats. Roughly, what is your guess for time between coats for tung oil and water based polyurethane? Cheers, Casa Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 54Nov 16, 2007 10:54 pm All the more reason that CARPETS have many benefits over such floors! The bottom line is that all floors require maintenance and at some time, restoration. When you look at all the issues around restoration of hard surfaces, carpets are a dream! Ash. Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 55Nov 17, 2007 7:32 am royalblue :roll: All the more reason that CARPETS have many benefits over such floors! The bottom line is that all floors require maintenance and at some time, restoration. When you look at all the issues around restoration of hard surfaces, carpets are a dream! Ash. Problem with carpets is the ongoing maintenance and susceptibility to staining. If you drop some coffee on a carpet it's a disaster. Do the same on ceramic tile or wooden floor and things are better. Regular cleaning is also an issue. There are a lot more professional carpet cleaners out there than professional wooden floor or tile cleaners. This should tell you something (even when you take into account the relative popularity of carpet). With wood or tile I can be busy for a couple month and neglect them. After that I give them a clean and we're back to square one. With carpet it would never recover. Difficult to identify the ideal flooring area. We know its tiles for bathrooms, but what about the rest of the house. I'm still struggling between wood and tiles (and maybe laminate), at least for the living area. Still leaning towards wood in the bedrooms, but would consider carpet there. Happy to use carpet in the theatre room. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 56Nov 17, 2007 7:56 am Casa,
If it's no maintenance your after then tiles is the only option. If you look at my last house pics, that is only 3 years of usage on an oil based polyuethane - see the dinng room chair scuffs. Yes they are dark floors so that shows it up more, but with kids who drag chairs across the floor - wooden floors are going to suffer. So - no maintenance with wooden floors (especially if they are dark) is not really an option. Tiles as you know are hard wearing, hard when you drop something, and are colder to touch, but they have their benefits. My advice, it's better to have a house that you can all happily live in without thinking or saying (DONT DRAG THE CHAIRS) or similar to your children all the time. If you want it to look nice all the time with no maintenance - well you know the choice. Steve Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 57Nov 17, 2007 11:04 am Yak_Chat Casa, If it's no maintenance your after then tiles is the only option. Unbelievable! No maintenance is an option maybe, but the grout will normally become pretty gungey, as well as the face of the tiles. Maintenance of tiles is quite necessary, and cleaning the grout can be a nightmare, unless you pay a professional to clean it. I clean carpets, starting at about $3.30 per sq/m. I clean tiles& grout starting at about $5.50 per sq/m. You might have noticed that many of the carpet cleaners you mention are also cleaning tiles too. There are SO MANY misconceptions about floorcovering maintenance, it's hard to know where to start!!!!! Ash. Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 58Nov 17, 2007 11:47 am Allright Ash - I don't mean absolutely no maintenance.
Of course everthing needs a sweep, a clean, a vacuum, a resurfacing, a sealing or something during it's used life. But would you not agree that if you are looking for an relatively easy maintain and clean, non staining, hard wearing surface..... Tiles are certainly at or very near the top of the list? Slate is in my experience, a bit too soft and even with a sealant can be damaged by chairs etc scraping across them. And horses iron clad hooves !!!! Marble and marble like stone materials are expensive and not all that hard wearing or durable. Timber - as we all know needs some care or it too gets scuffed and scratched. Carpet is nice and warm and as you've explained, very good for air quality - but it's not loved by all, and needs regular cleaning to be kept at it's best. And having lived in the extreme climes of the world (tropic to the Artic zones) with a mix of all of these surfaces, I'd put tiles as one of the easier to manage surfaces in a house when children and extended periods of - low maintenance are desired. Which I think is what casa is referring to. And is there not a way of sealing trhe grout between the tiles? But one thing with tiles that does need to be considered, they can make a hous damn noisy - so soft furnishings on the walls and rugs help to stop that echo echo echo feeling. In the tropics (where tiles are even more suited) this not such an issue as you tend to leave the lourves and windows open all the time. Steve Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 59Nov 17, 2007 12:17 pm I was originally going for tiles in the main living area, but switched to floorboards for one reason. We have a four year old, a one year old and another on the way (due in April). We currently live in a unit and, as is mostly th case, everythign is carpeted. Our youngest on many occasions has been sitting on the carpey and fell backwards and not knowing to curlt his head up has hit the carpet with the back of his head with a thud. It's distressing enough on carpet. I'd dread to think what it would be like for tiles. Timber would not be that much better, but it's slighly better.
continues below... Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Pre-finished hardwood floor vs pre-finished timber floating 60Nov 17, 2007 12:18 pm For our proposed wooden (or tiles) main living area flooring, I've even thought of getting some sort of cloth headwear to protect the skull!
I would never put carpet in the main living area. It's either tile or wood. I don't mind carpet in bedrooms. Actually I like it. Low traffic and low chance of food spillage. However, the wife suffers from allergies and when she was a girl, living with her parents, the allergy got so bad that they had to rip out the carpet and go to floorboards. Now, if I could convince her that there is no allergy problem (dust mites), I'm sure we could get carpet in the bedrooms. We are having carpet in the theatre (acoustic, low risk of staining) and study area. I think deciding on the main living area flooring and sourcing my energy efficient sliding doors to the balcony (two 4 m wide x 2.7 m high opening) are going to take as long as selecting everything else in the house. I should add that I'm adding hydronic in-slab heating in the main living area. Even after I've decided to go for wooden floors I have to decide between engineered wood, slimwood (12mm) or normal floorboards (19 mm). Then I have to decide between direct stick or plywood underlay (batons are not an option since I want all floor levels to be the same and the air gap would not work with hydronic in-slab heating). This is how I feel: Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Hi All. I'm currently resurfacing the hardwood floors and when removing the old layers that there's a long dark line running across the boards. Does anyone know what or… 0 12754 Thanks Simon, I guess I'm no concerned with the volume of the noise rather that dead and hollow sound and feel that is associated with floating floors. But I'm not sure… 3 6085 Thanks, that's the motivation I needed to give it a try sooner rather than one day! 4 2982 |