Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Oct 25, 2009 11:11 pm Hi all,
Initially I was going to tile my 3 bedroom apartment, however after finding out about the excessive noise restrictions, bylaws and potential associated fines, not to mention the time and price on selecting, buying, and laying tiles (with underlay or noise supression glue) it exceeded my budget heavily. So here I am with the following carpet choices: 1. Sanctuary Park (Colour: Lambs Wool) - SDN + Dunlop Cloud 9 Stratus (9mm) foam underlay from Harvey Norman (15 year warranty). Link: http://www.harveynormanflooring.com.au/ ... html#parks 2. Stain Defence Advance (Colour: Solid Opal) - Nylon + Dunlop Cloud 9 Stratus from HN (15 year stain defence advance warranty). Link: http://www.harveynormanflooring.com.au/ ... html#twist 2. Kowloon Bay (Colour: Symphony) - SDP + Dunlop Cloud 9 Stratus (9mm) foam underlay from Harvey Norman (15 year warranty) 3. "Revolution" SDN + Yellow rubber underlay (either 9 or 10mm - not sure) from Solomons Carpet (15 yr warranty: http://www.solomons.com.au/log3.htm) 4. SDN + Yellow rubber underlay again, from Carpet Call 5. Portsea (Colour: Smokey) - SDN + Yellow rubber underlay, from Decorug (I think this also has the 15 yr warranty). Now what im confused about is the below questions based on the carpet/underlay options I have, given my situation that it will mainly be me and my partner livign in the apartment, but perhaps we may be living there for many years, will start a family, and the possibility of my brother and mother moving in with us in 2 years. 1. Is there really that much difference in stain protection between SDPs, SDNs and Nylons? 2. Which underlay type is better, the Cloud 9 Stratus or the Yellow rubber underlays? Each company promotes the one that they sell as being the best, so I can never tell what the 'truth' of the matter is. I've stepped on carpets with each underlay under them, both with my shoes on and with just my socks, and truth be told both feel great. But which one is better for health, and longer lasting? 3. Some of these carpets come with a very vague 15 year warranty, such as the Sanctuary Park from HN. Should I be worried? 4. Some of the warranties state that should the carpet suffer more than 10% abrasion during the 15 years, they will replace. Others push this number to 40%. And yet some dont even state a percentage. Again, how much thought should I be putting into this? 5. Density. 40 oz or 60z. Should this be a huge factor? Most of the carpets that fall within my budget (up to $50/m2) seem to be between 40 oz to 50 oz. No carpets seem to have this figure on the back of them these days, so im only going on the word of the salesperson (not a very comforting thought). I haven't been to Carpet Court yet, and I personally didn't like the level of customer service provided to me by Carpet Call so I have chosen not to do business with them. Any advice on carpets and underlays will be greatly appreciated, based on the options listed above. Also, does anyone think that a slight pattern in carpet (such as the Tiffany style: http://www.solomons.com.au/log5.htm) makes it look more modern or chicque? Any help will be great, as I'm heavily confused and need to finalise a choice before Friday this week. Cheers! Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 2Oct 26, 2009 1:01 am Yes, there are differences. Polypropylene has virtually no absorbency, so has the greatest stain resistance. However, polyprop is oil loving, and if its exposed to oily spills or deposits, the oily residues will keep attracting soil. They are generally more resistant to fading and staining than other fibres. Polyprop is also very heat sensitive (will melt easily) and if not very densly tufted, it can crush easily, due to its inherant poor resilience. I have generally said I don't like polyprops, as they degrade quickly because of some of these factors. BUT there are some excellent new polyprop carpets, that I have been harping on about recently. These are the new generation carpets made with Sensitex 6000 yarn, by Northstate Carpet Mills. Very soft like SDNs but better stain resistence. I suggest you look at these. The only situation where they may not do so well would be very oily environments. Even then they will just need more frequent cleaning. Solution dyed nylons I already have posted heaps about. Again, I'd say look at the range made by Northstate, as they have some benefits over some others that should give them better performance. NOTE: Do not believe all you hear about their stain resistance. Only those that are treated with stain resistant coatings AND stain blockers will give good performance. Unless the SDN yarns have such treatments, they are still prone to staining. The 'solution dyed' nylons are better than other nylons at resisting colour fade though, so may be better if the carpets see a lot of sunlight. UNDERLAYS?? I've said it all before! Of the two that you have mentioned, they are both 'average' at best. Best to get 'Prime' from Brigestone. Prime is best preference as it will have much better sound insulation and general performance than any others. Next best option is Excellay from Dunlop. Warranties?? Don't take much notice of them. Wear warranties are a bit of a gimmick. Nylon carpets DO NOT wear out! Manufacturers know that. But they can ugly out and become discoloured with time. They are never replaced because of wear. Texture?? Yes, yes, YES! Carpets with some random texture are more serviceable in many ways. I'd suggest something more random like the 'Kirra Sands' in the link you posted than those with linear or geometric designs. That's why I like the Northstate carpets here called Ballantine or Shepstone http://www.northstatecarpets.com.au/pro ... carpetType They are level cut & loop, and the designs are very good at maintaining good appearance. These are the Sensitex polyprop carpets I mentioned. Ash. Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 3Oct 26, 2009 10:47 pm Hi Ash, Thanks for your feedback. Before posting I actually went through many threads on SDN's and underlays. However my questions were more focused on the choices I listed below. Based on your feedback it looks like I'll be definately going for an SDN with Bridgestone Prime underlay. The SDN is because of the fact that most of my rooms get plenty of sunlight so fading is a real concern for me. I went into a Carpet Call today and did a bit of a step test on the Prime. On the weekend I did the step test (both with and without shoes) on the Gold/Yellow rubber underlay, but the Prime craps all over it. I was told that it would be $250 extra (all up) if I wanted Prime instead of the Gold rubber underlay. Does that sound right? Solution Dyed Polyprops, it seems (from what Ive read and heard) are a work in progress in terms of quality. The one I stepped on felt great, however the salesman didnt sound too convincing about the qualities of SDP's and instead recommended SDN's. And the last thing I want is a carpet that gives me grief over any type of stain or spill, especially oils! Can you tell me though, should I be concerned about 40 oz versus 60 oz SDN's? Is this something I should seriously take into consideration when purchasing carpet? I mean, the 60 oz feels really soft and luxurious and thick (denser), and seems to have longer threads (probably would also be just as hard to clean then?), but other than that, is there any serious real benefit to go the 60 oz? So my final decision is now on two competing Twist SDN's with the Bridgestone Prime underlay from two different stores. All it comes down to now is price and availability. Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 4Oct 27, 2009 1:52 am Hi Ash, The trouble is, when anyone posts links to a number of carpets as you have done, I cannot always get sufficient info to make a really informed opinion on each carpet. So I must summise a fair bit (or guess) and its hard to be really sure. Here is some more general info about SDNs... Because there are so many SDN carpets in the market today, its hard to determine just how each one will perform. They should all have good resistance to fading, so there's a tick there! But some have been known to rapidly soil due to the lubricant which is used during manufacturing. Some mills will scour (clean) the carpet after it is tufted, and before the secondary backing is applied, which overcomes this problem quite effectively. Unless SDN carpets are scoured and then treated with a combination of dye blockers and stain resistant treatment (like Teflon or Scotchgard) they can stain in some circumstances. But NOT ALL SDN carpets are! Check out what Northstate do here... http://www.northstatecarpets.com.au/fil ... tioned.pdf I have seen this mill in operation, and the scouring process it incorporates gives their carpets a definite benefit IMO! As I said before about polyprobs, they are generally cheaper and don't perform so well. BUT you really should consider the Northstate (new generation) Sensitex 6000 carpets. The 'Ballantine' is a really nice carpet and should perform exceptionally well at a reasonable price. Compared to most SDNs, it will have much better stain resistance and colourfastness, and feels just as nice as any SDN. I suggest you find from Northstate who stocks this carpet and check it out before you decide. I think one thing is for certain... Prime is the best choice of underlays for you, especially since sound insulation is important to you, being in an apartment. Worth every cent! The 40oz vs 60oz question is not so simple. Technically, its a matter of a ratio between the pile density (yarn thickness x number of tufts per sq/inch) and pile height. So a super dense but lower profile carpet might be 40oz, and a much longer pile carpet (but with fewer tufts per sq/inch) might have a greater weight, yet the 40oz will perform better. Generally, its the case that a low profile, very dense pile carpet will be a better buy. Longer pile may be more prone to crushing, unless it has a ratio that makes it very dense at the same time. Hope that helps! Ash. Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 5Oct 28, 2009 10:58 pm Hi Ash, Thanks for your feedback and great information on tufts as well as what to look out for with stain protection. However many carpet places that I have been to seem to be clueless about many things regarding the carpet they sell, and some of them come across as though they're just saying yes to everything for the sake of making the sale, so I dont know what to believe. Until they can provide me with a spec sheet from the manufacturer detailing everything about the carpet, I can only take the salesmans word with a grain of salt Although i was very impressed with Prime, especially under SDN Twist 60 oz, I decided to go against this choice because the 60 oz SDN, although only being $1000k more than what im currently going to go with, had a longer pile which means crushing and also harder to clean. The Prime feels great under such carpet, but not so great under 40 oz when I did the step tests (both feet, with shoes on and also with just socks on). Under 40 oz SDN twist, Prime felt "not as soft" (or hard, to a degree). A bit of softness helps a 40 oz feel a bit more plush than what it really is, especially when my apartment goes up for sale in X number of years and people start walking through to check it out. However when I did the step test on a 40 oz SDN twist with Gold rubber underlay, it felt much better. Not too soft but not too hard either. Im trying to be as practical as I can, however if you see any error in my logic, or that I have missed a point of consideration, I would really appreciate your feedback before I sign for the carpet on Friday EDIT: Forgot to mention that I checked out the North State Carpet website, however it seems that they are based in QLD whereas I am in NSW. Cheers! Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 6Oct 28, 2009 11:17 pm Ash, Whilst I understand that one of the main features people want in a carpet is 'softness' I tend to advise people to go with what will actually perform better and give best service for the life of the carpet. A firmer, more dense underlay will do so. In your case, you mentioned the noise transmission issue, (being in an apartment). This is another good reason to go for PRIME, as it can make a big difference. The 'under foot test' is fairly subjective. Which one feels nicer under foot is one thing. How it feels after several years of traffic is another. Underlays like the Bridgestone black or gold are full of air, and can compress & collapse after a while. I see quite a lot of carpets which would potentially have plenty of life left, but the underlay has collapsed! If you really want a softer underlay though, look at the Dunlop Excellay or Dunlop Springtred Extra. These are not as firm & dense as prime, but probably will have better longevity than the lesser Bridgstone underlays. Northstate Mill is in Qld, but they supply carpets to retailers throughout Australia. By contacting them, they should be able to tell you which retailers in your area stock their carpets. Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 7Oct 31, 2009 8:20 pm royalblue Ash, In your case, you mentioned the noise transmission issue, (being in an apartment). This is another good reason to go for PRIME, as it can make a big difference. Hi Ash, Thanks for your very informative and helpful response as always. The current carpet that I have in my apartment is a cheap plush with black rubber underlay underneath - the builders choice! It seems that this has been set as the benchmark for maintaining sound levels, so I think the SDN 40 oz with gold rubber underlay should do a better job than whats in there now. I would have loved to have gone for the Prime, after having stepped on it, it felt so much more supportive and strong. And was going to get it with a 60 oz SDN, however since the 60 oz had longer pile, and would knock another $1000 out of my pocket, at this point in time I had to be a bit practical about it, since its just me and my partner, so the 40 oz SDN with gold underlay should hold up pretty well (at least until we're ready to sell). I wanted to ask you your opinion on what is the best type of vaccum cleaner for a 40oz Twist SDN with gold underlay? Ive got a budget of up to $250 and would prefer bagless. If you could shed some light on this issue, it will be greatly appreciated For the next property I buy (definitely a stand alone structure), I'll be investing in some nicer carpets and hopefully will get a chance to get in touch with North West Carpets before making a final decision. Cheers Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 8Nov 01, 2009 2:46 pm OK, the Bridgestone Gold will probably last around 8-10 years, by which time it will be pretty dead, but you may have moved on by then! Sorry mate, I can't recommend any vacuums for such a small sum. Seems you fail to realise the importance of a good vacuum cleaner, and they tend to cost more than that. Something like a good Dyson upright is worth buying if you want to keep things well maintained. Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 10Apr 01, 2010 11:53 pm borepig Is the blue underlay a good one? Depends. It is quite a thick and heavy weight rubber underlay, so designed for VERY heavy weight carpets. But for carpets like that, PRIME is the best choice. Considering that the price of both Supa Blue and Prime are about the same, Prime has to be the better option. Supa Blue is too thick in my opinion. Of the Bridgestone range, here's what I reckon; BLACK is a basic quality..... FORGET IT. Poor choice unless you just want cheap and don't care about performance. GOLD is just OK if you have a fairly lightweight carpet. There are much better choices. PLATINUM is quite good for most carpets, except very heavy weight carpets. GREEN is thicker and heavier again, suitable for heavy weight carpets where you insist on having some softeness from the underlay. SUPA BLUE is very thick and heavy. TOO thick. PRIME is the perfect underlay, providing a firm support and long life for any carpet installation, without being too thick. So re-capping and simplifying these choices... I'd suggest in order of best first... PRIME, PLATINUM, GOLD. Ash. Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 12Apr 02, 2010 5:10 pm NO. The more DENSE the better. If underlay is much thicker than the smoothedge, (and isn't powerstretched) the risk is it can come off the smoothedge, as the thick underlay sits higher than the smoothedge. Too much movement through underlay compressing and rebounding can cause all sorts of probs. Re: Advice on which carpet + underlay combo to choose 13Apr 04, 2010 11:54 am Having taken your advise re insisting on dunlop excellay, the carpet place I am dealing with have offered me Bridgestone platinum at $50 cheaper than the excellay as they say they will have to order a roll in especially which will result in leftovers that they will probably not use.... so my question is............ is it worth $50 to get the Dunlop excellay over the Bridgestone platinum???? This underlay will be used under a Redbook Total Artistry carpet with the "ultrabac" backing so not sure if that influences which underlay is better to use?? Hey all, Hoping for some inspiration for my bathroom laundry combo. The tiles are in good condition, as is the bathtub. I’ve given it a coat of white paint and added… 0 14104 Hi l plan to install a self adhesive vinyl plank floor. l first need to attach masonite boards underlay to by plywood subfloor of my house. What size nails and how many… 0 8356 Jimbo73 I would use heaps of adhesive on each sheet and screw rather than nail. use as many as you like cheers Simeon 1 4046 |