Hi guys,
I recommend dry grinding ( you can hire a vacuam and floor grinder) to etch the surface and remove any loose material that is present. Your prep work is the most important part to any job, and if not done correctly , your floor will peel. A big problem with DIY , and the advice from the stores that sell theses products is....LACK OF KNOWLEGDE and EXPEIRENCE on behalf of the salesperson selling you their product. I have just quoted a floor here on the south coast that had a colour wash applied , then a coat of water base polyurethane over the top....well it peeled in sheets within a month, and i am now priceing and new 'knockdown' hydra-stain floor for them...so it cost them more than twice the price now!!!! You should always use a pro , if you what long lasting job.....and some warrenty to boot!!
Getting back to floor patching.....i use epoxy putty ( 2pac) to patch minor holes and cracks ( now thats a seperate thread in its own ), larger holes and spauls epoxy screed (resin and sand) or a cementitious material ( sand , cement , polymer)!
Acid for priming is okay , if you cannot dry grind, and should be diluted down to a cupful of hydra/acid to a 10litre bucket, then applied with either a watering can or a soft broom ( the reason of this is that the chemical reaction is spread evenly, not just dumped in one spot, and then spread)....you want to see some minor fizzing, then you know it is etching the surface. But really guys, go see a pro about doing these jobs, if you screw it up, you have to look at it for a long time
Adam Williams
www.adamsfloorcoatings.com.au Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅
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Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering  09 Nov 2006 71 Loyal Member Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 22Jun 20, 2007 9:02 pm Well going back to my original post. We did the lounge/kitchen/dining areas last weekend and I'm fairly happy with the result.
I ended up getting this grey Bostik filler gear from bunnings, a quick sand after it was dry and... it stood out like dogs bollocks (dried basically white rather than grey). Anyhoo, I got the plaster off with some chisels and the paint - being water based - easily came off with a scourer and some water. We ended up using a sponge to apply the sealer/stain. We used a circular motion with random splashes and splotches to keep it interesting. The finish has ended up being a semi-gloss finish and now that it's fully dry it almost has a pearly/metallic look about it. We put heaps extra over the patched hole and you can barely notice it now, so that ended up ok. I will post some photos when I get a chance. Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 23Jun 21, 2007 7:07 pm Hi Guys,
Good to see that you got your job completed without to much fuss double07  There is no better satisfaction than completeing a job yourself, standing back and looking at your job with pride...well done The whole idea of these forum sites is of swaping and passing of information, so that the general public can benefit with knowledge from professional tradespeople 
So in saying this, it would be good to know what prep work did you apply to the floor before you applied the tinted sealer? Also did Bunnings give you any MSDS and Tech Data sheets with the material that you bought? I realise that this is only a temporary floor ( i read your previous posts). In the real world of contracting, we have to have all our tech data and msds sheets in a folder with us on the job, and not just for Workcovers benefit, but for me to be able to reference back to the manufactures instructions in the application and safe handeling of their product...thats why they produce these documents, to be given out with the product! Acrylic sealers are find for short term use, there is not alot of body to them, hence they a a cheap product, and the secret to applying them is multi THIN COATS! , so that the first coat can soak into the surface of the concrete( thats is why your prep work should be done correctly to ensure adhesion), and then all the other coats can bond with the primer coat! To much tint can also cause some delamination, as it turns the sealer into a more paint like product, therfore not allowing the product to soak in and adhere to the surface ( i think i mention Porters colour wash in my previous post ).I am not having a shot at anybody in this post, just trying to convey the correct information
I will, when i get more of a chance, start a thread epoxy and cementious flooring, and also floor matinance. I also noted that this forum site does not have a picture gallery 
Cheers Adam Williams www.adamsfloorcoatings.com.au 09 Nov 2006 71 Loyal Member Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 24Jun 21, 2007 7:40 pm Hi Adam,
Yes it has been fairly satisfying, just had another look at it then and it's looking really nice under the halogen downlights
Preparation? Well basically most of it was cleaning. As I mentioned we first scraped off all the paint and plaster. We then gave it a quick sweep and then gave it a run over with the Dyson. Then we got a mop and mopped up some of the inground dirt, some stubborn stains (pigeon poo!) needed a brush. We let that dry over night and came back the next day to let the concrete dry out. Quickly sanded the patch up of a chip and then gave it another sweep. We then followed the instructions in the guides provided by crommelin: http://www.crommelin.com.au/images/newProducts/Concrete%20Floor%20Sealer.pdf http://www.crommelin.com.au/images/newProducts/HOW%20TO%20SEAL%20CONCRETE%20FLOORS%20-%20CFS.pdf We wanted a fairly dark charcoal finish so we mixed up 45mls (the manufacturer recommended no more than 60mls - I tried that much and as you said it ends up like a thin paint) of universal black tint (available from your friendly paint shop) and added it to 4L or the concrete sealer. It kind of turned blue but I'd tested the product out in the garage and realised that it actually dries clear. We wore masks and applied two coats to the concrete. I should also note that crommelin actually have a support hotline which I rang on a Saturday arvo and they were quite helpful when I enquired about tinting and application techniques. Adam: You would probably know - We intend to perhaps put another clear coat at some stage in the future over the top as more of a protective measure how should we prepare for that? [Photos to come soon!] Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 25Jun 25, 2007 7:29 pm Hey 007,
Sorry for not replying back sooner....work has taken me to Canberra, and then back to the Hilton in Sydney!....finaly home here on the south coast making sample boards and quoting work! Good to read that you made a effort in trying your stains with different volumes of tint....thats what we have to do ( experiment) with any new product. Also with tints there is basicilly two main types...solvent base ( these are used in all solvent based sealers, epoxys, etc)and water base (these are used in any cementitious material, water based sealers and paints) So a water based acyrlic sealer has a water based tint that is compatiable ( and that is what we use in any water base stains like the ones i use to 'antique' the stains.) These are great to use as you can always wash these off with water and acid ...if you feel that the stain is too strong......a very user freindly product!!! Back to your initial question about 'protective top coats'.....you can top coat your floor with another clear coat of water based acrylic, this would be the safest, and the clear coat should be able to bleed thru the tinted coats to form a good bond! Then you could either give the floor a very light sand with 120 grade paper to etch the surface for a more long lasting epoxy or pollyurethane. I use either one coat of high solids epoxy , or two coats of water base epoxy. We always top coat our work with a 2 pac water base polyurethane ( it has a uv blocker in it) Or you can apply some 'sacrificial coats'....which is two coats of base coat ( a acrylic) then 4 coats of polish ( a polyurethane) These coats can be applied with a poly-cotton mop, are very cheap and easy to maintain! All my floors ( hard surfaces) are given sacrificial coats to protect the bottom coats....it better to scratch these coatings , than the hard coats!! And this applies to ALL HARD SURFACES....yes i mean timber floors, vinly tiles, Kordean, polished concrete, Hyper floors, epoxy etc. The pictures i have supplied are of a house floor here on the south coast, it was a concrete slab with oxide thru the mix, covered and constructed on. After the building was completed, the slab was cleaned with a auto scrubber, and then i applied 3 coats of 'Base Coat', then 4 coats of 'Glaze' polish...and this was done all with a poly-cotton mop.....no high speed buffering with a machine! Sorry to waffle on  ....just trying to relay the right info!!
Looking forward to seeing your pics of the finished product 007!! Adam Williams www.adamsfloorcoatings.com.au Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ 09 Nov 2006 71 Loyal Member Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 26Jun 28, 2007 10:51 am Wow Adam, you're certainly flying high in the concrete flooring game  half your luck!
I'm still offline at home *shakes fist at telstra*, so I might not be able to upload the photos for another week or so. I have a new problem now.  The finish seems to be fairly sturdy but it obviously doesn't handle a gas fitter and plumber dragging a 90cm oven and dishwasher over the floor while still boxed up on a mini pallet.  So the kitchen is pretty scratched up, right back to the bare concrete in a lot of places. So I think once fixed it will definitely need a clear protective coating as you mentioned.
How to fix the scratches now though?!? My wife just reckons we should give it another couple of coats of Cromellin in the scratched areas. I'm more inclined to try and scrape the affected areas to get a more even line, then put two coats on the scraped areas. Adam, what product do you use as a 'base coat' you mentioned? I notice you just used a mop to apply the base coat and polish, this sounds like something I could do. Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 27Jun 28, 2007 6:29 pm Hi 007,
Sorry to hear about the damage to your floor...sucks doesn't 
Forgot to mention how every other tradesman couldn;t give a crap about someones elese's work...the shop floor that i did in Nowra got trashed by the shopfitter and sparky....they used the floor as a work station, and decided to cut timber on the finished floor.....gave it a wonderful sawcut for about 3 m's....the owner now has a rugg over the mark!!! Hoped you docked their money mate...its the only way these wankers will learn. Better still , offer to go over to their place and return the favour  no excuse for being a grubb!!!
Back to your floor...you could try sanding the scratch's back flat so that there is no noticeable lines showing , and then touch up these marks with more coloured sealer, followed by another complete tinted top coat. The base coat and polish can be purchased at any proper cleaning supplies shop, and they should have someone there that knows what he is talking about, to help you out. Peerless make a great range of cleaners and polishes..Gemini is a great product, and i used this at my own house on my Kordean vinly tiles and timber planks. Mirage is another brand made here in Sydney, Nowra Chemicals make the Whitelys brand, and Cleantec is another brand from Campbells. All these manufacturers have similar products and are very easy to use, but you wont find these at the local super market....only proper cleaning supplies shops Good luck mate!!! I will post some pictures if i find them of application.
Adam Williams www.adamsfloorcoatings.com.au Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ 09 Nov 2006 71 Loyal Member Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 31Jul 13, 2007 10:27 am  stonecutter1309Wow! That looks great! Thanks, we're pretty happy with it. We need to fix up a badly scratched section in the kitchen then go over it with something a bit more hardy as Adam suggested. But all up so far it's cost us around $140 including everything (for the lounge/dining, kitchen and hallway). 19 Feb 2007 42 Northside Brisbane Junior Member Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 32Jul 25, 2007 3:06 pm that looks amazing
Is it reasonably hard wearing though? I'm about to build in downstairs and will have a 70sqm open room with bar, pool table and tv/ lounge to do. This might be a nice unique way to finish the space. I suppose for the cost you listed so what if it fails 
The cromellin site lists it as tileable too so no need to strip it bare if you want to tile over it..... even better I will give this a go I think (be a few months before I get there mind you). I love patterned floors like that (I'm a die hard slate fan but pretty over tiling for a while at least)09 Nov 2006 71 Loyal Member Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 33Jul 25, 2007 4:45 pm  -mick-that looks amazing Is it reasonably hard wearing though? I'm about to build in downstairs and will have a 70sqm open room with bar, pool table and tv/ lounge to do. This might be a nice unique way to finish the space. I suppose for the cost you listed so what if it fails Thanks, mick. Well, I actually rang cromellin again to discuss how to repair the scratched areas. They were genuinely surprised that it had scratched. After some discussions we worked out it was probably because a) it was too cold, it needs to be over 10 degrees to do it, the temp was about 12 degrees when we did it. b) the appliance installers came in the day after we did the sealing - apparently it takes 7 days to fully cure, you can walk on it and replace furniture after 4 hours but you obviously should be dragging a dishwasher, fridge and 90cm over around on it In my discussions the guy said see how we go with it after recoating the scratched areas and if we still find it's not as hardy as we need then go over it with some polyurethane. Their PU product is' PU51' and costs around $200 for 10L which would be enough for 2 coats over 70-80 sqm. I went over the kitchen area the other day and it looks a lot better, we'll see how it wears and use the PU if necessary. -mick-The cromellin site lists it as tileable too so no need to strip it bare if you want to tile over it..... even better I will give this a go I think (be a few months before I get there mind you). I love patterned floors like that (I'm a die hard slate fan but pretty over tiling for a while at least)Yeah, not much to lose by giving it a try. We intend to get tiles or floor boards in 5 years, so this is just a nice modern looking temporary solution. 09 Nov 2006 71 Loyal Member Re: Preparing/Cleaning concrete slab 35Jan 11, 2013 9:01 am Wow this is an old post! We actually found this stuff not to be very hard wearing over time so we ended up getting somebody in to polish the concrete a couple of years ago. Only cost $5k for hallway, kitchen, lounge and dining areas and we are very happy with the end results. I'll try to dig up some photos of the old stuff though. I've filled, levelled and compacted around 100mm of roadbase in preparation to lay some outdoor court tiles. Prior to doing the final compaction, I dusted the top with… 0 2023 No, I even have sections of narrowness where the tiles won't slide up any further. When I manage some spare time, I might play around with the first DIY part of my… 7 2229  Hi All Im laying a new slab on top of the old slab in the picture below, I have chipped away the tiles… 0 2951 |
