Browse Forums Flooring & Floor Covering 1 Aug 10, 2009 4:11 pm Hi all, I've recently purchased a new 3 bedroom apartment on the top (2nd) level. Currently the apartment has carpeting all the way through the place, except for the usual (bathrooms, laundry, and kitchen). I want to remove the carpeting and replace it with either tiles or timber. Currently under the carpet is just concrete. Now this is where my dilemma ******: If I have tiles laid (my first choice), there is the concern of the level of noise being transmitted from my floor to the people living below will increase. As our Body Coroprate by laws are quite strict on noise, I investigated as to how tile noise can be reduced. Apparently there are two solutions: 1) Some special type of glue that is applied to each tile when its laid which absorbs some of the noise. Also the tiles underneath are kind of grooved which apparently also helps reduce the noise levels (according to the tile store owner). 2) Some sort of underlay which is laid before the tiles are laid. The problem with this, according to the tile store, is that it can become a very expensive exercise. Not only am I paying for the tiles, but also the underlay, plus labour for laying the tiles, plus labour for laying the underlay. My second choice is dark timber floors because I hate carpet and the thought of dust affecting my partner or our future kids. However I have no idea as to how well timber floors prevent noise transmission. Can anybody please shed some light on noise transmission and prevention with tiles and timber floors? I really dont want to make anyone elses life a misery just for the sake of tiles or timber floors. Regards, Ash Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 2Aug 10, 2009 5:39 pm With a concrete floor beneath the tiles, I really don’t see how there could be too much noise. There is a rubber based glue, which I think is your first option; this will be a good buffer. Depending where you live, if not in the hottest parts of Oz, most people will put rugs down over the tiles anyway. This will also be a noise buffer. Timber will make more noise!! Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 3Aug 11, 2009 1:06 am ash108 because I hate carpet and the thought of dust affecting my partner or our future kids. Ash What? Are you my antithesis? Look its your choice what flooring you have, but what utter nonsense you talk! Carpets DO NOT cause dust, and the FACTS are carpets are as healthy as any other floorcoverings. Carpets have been proven to have a beneficial effect on indoor air quality, and many other benefits besides! You can believe myths if you want, but THIS ASH will stand up for the established facts of the matter! Ash. Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 4Aug 11, 2009 1:38 am any study can be done to achieve the results required. Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 5Aug 11, 2009 6:37 pm Ah, I think this calls for my favourite quote, "statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is suggestive, but its what they conceal that is vital". ICK So glad the building is over, never again. Loooove our house, but still not quite sure it was worth all of the stress they put us through! Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 6Aug 11, 2009 6:44 pm ICK Ah, I think this calls for my favourite quote, "statistics are like a bikini, what they reveal is suggestive, but its what they conceal that is vital". To answer the OP - I would go with whatever you prefer. Personally, that would be timber for me because it has a warmer feel and it looks so nice. But that's just me Blog: http://bluemistkids.blogspot.com "Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, and professionals built the Titanic." Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 7Aug 11, 2009 7:06 pm ash108 I hate carpet and the thought of dust affecting my partner or our future kids. However I have no idea as to how well timber floors prevent noise transmission. In most cases it's not the dust itself that's the problem, but dust mites. royalblue Carpets DO NOT cause dust, and the FACTS are carpets are as healthy as any other floorcoverings. Carpets have been proven to have a beneficial effect on indoor air quality, and many other benefits besides! Seems to go totally against what I've heard, read and experienced. Most cheap and medium price carpets and their underlays outgas large amounts of VOC, for quite a long time, long after that "lovely fresh carpet smell" is gone. Some expensive carpets are made with natural fibres and non-toxic glues and chemicals, but they're rather pricey. It's true that carpet doesn't cause/produce dust, it gathers and stores it though and no amount of cleaning and vacuuming will remove all the muck from it, that why it needs replacing every few years, which means ever more stuff going into landfill. As you can easily see, I hate carpets too. Give me timber floor or tiles with a colourful hand-made Persian rug!!!! Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 8Aug 11, 2009 10:29 pm royalblue What? Are you my antithesis? Look its your choice what flooring you have, but what utter nonsense you talk! Carpets DO NOT cause dust, and the FACTS are carpets are as healthy as any other floorcoverings. Carpets have been proven to have a beneficial effect on indoor air quality, and many other benefits besides! You can believe myths if you want, but THIS ASH will stand up for the established facts of the matter! Ash. Hahahaha.....thanks for your enthusiasm! Oh God how I needed a bit of a chuckle after such an exhaustive day. I see you are passionate about carpets, and thats great, however my views comes from personal experience. My younger brother, due to the *dust mites* (thanks kristofw, thats what i meant to say originally) and probably the dust too, has become a asthmatic now. I too have an acute form of asthma that kicks in 2-3 times a year. Once we removed the carpets from my folks place, voila, an immediate improvement in both his and my health. Carpets trap dust, and have lots of nasties in them. They start to get worn and it shows in nasty patches which is something I dont like. Im a big fan of consistency Not sure where these established facts are, however, each person will form their views on their experiences, and in my experience, carpet is a big no-no. As for indoor air quality, I'll probably be getting some of those air purifying indoor plants @ Michelle: Thanks for clearing that up! Do you know what that rubber based glue is called by any chance? @ Fu Manchu: +1 @ ICK: Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 9Aug 12, 2009 7:35 am NO…but its very common now, a tile supplier will be able to tell you. Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 10Aug 13, 2009 12:41 am Ash108, Good to see you have a sense of humour! Even if you have come to some simplistic conclusions. You are right though... most people WILL form their views based on their experiences (or perceptions). My point is, many of the myths that people believe and opinions formed are really far from reality. You had carpets removed and your asthma improved? Could it have been that the carpets were not maintained correctly? Could it be that the vacuum used had poor filtration and was inefficient? I often hear of people complaining about their carpets' performance, only to find they are doing everything wrong in terms of maintenance, and/or the carpets were not well chosen. People have silly knee-jerk reactions and make conclusions based on anything but real considered information or data. And the carpet maintenence I speak of isn't a hard thing. It just takes a bit of logical strategic planning, the right tools, and a sensible maintenance regime, and you have a home that is comfy, warm, clean and easy to care for. But NO too often , people are too short sighted to learn proper cleaning principles, and then when their carpets are loaded up, they belly-ache about the carpets they hate! And then the nonsense starts... DUSTMITES: Carpets that have just a reasonable level of care are a fairly inhospitible environment for dustmites to live. Dustmites live mostly in warm moist places where there's a good amount of protein food-source, such as in beds, bedding and in upholstery (our shedding skin flakes are a good food for them). Its actually NOT the dustmites themselves, but the allergen DerP1 which they produce that is a common trigger for asthmatics. This is not normally a problem (even for asthmatics) unless it is allowed to get to heavy levels and there is insufficient airflow in rooms so it builds up. Sure, carpets are a sink, and environmental pollutants in the home will accumulate and be held within the carpet pile. The main problem is when cheap, poorly maintained vacuums are then used to suck it up and spew it into the air! INDOOR AIR QUALITY: The world health organisation rates IAQ as a major world health risk! In many studies (including independant studies by environmental scientists) carpets are shown to be as healthy a choice (if not moreso) than many other floorcoverings. They have extremely LOW VOC levels which dissipate within the first couple of weeks. They actually remove VOC's from the air, and hold allergens at floor level, making the air cleaner! "air purifying indoor plants"? Another big myth! Dr Peter Dingle (environmental toxicologist) spoke about that at a conference I attended. Basically, any beneficial aspects of these are vastly outweighed by the risks associated with spores and microbes which can be highly toxic in an indoor environment! Carpets needing to replaced every few years? Says who? Kristof is probably just baiting me with his talkinthruhisarse comments, but really, only carpets that are abused and neglected need to be replaced so frequently. In short.... 'carpet haters' are simplistic, ill-informed and short-sighted morons! ..... and that's putting it nicely Ash. Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 12Aug 13, 2009 2:36 pm You can get adhesives that meet the standards for noise transmission. Asaphonic is one by ASA......a bugger to work with tho.. Standard flexinble rubber based adhesives will not meet standards. The other option is accustic underlay which comes in matt or rolls. This is adhered to the floor first then tile is adhered onto it. Your local tiles hop should be able to source them. Must admit never heard of the groove on tile thingy.... Also you may be interested in this product if not sure of tile or timber. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ regards Charlie Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 13Aug 13, 2009 4:44 pm Yes….I’m pretty sure you can buy acoustic underlay for the timber flooring as well, bit more expensive to buy. Actually I’m pretty sure you can buy anything…..if you are prepared to pay for it. Internal and External Building and Colour Consultant Online - Worldwide http://www.denovoconcepts.com Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 14Aug 13, 2009 9:40 pm kb46 Thanks a lot! I feel the same way about carpet-lovers - are we even? Hi kb46, Even? Hardly! Opinions are not all equal. The difference is, my opinions are educated and based upon considerable study of the data and info that pertain to floorcoverings. I regularly see the issues that people have with their floorcoverings, I have studied indoor air quality, a bit about mycology and generally have made it my business to understand the pros and cons of various floorcoverings. As I am a carpet cleaning technician, I have a particularly good appreciation of what carpets offer. I'm not necessarily (as you retort) a 'carpet lover'! And I have no problems with someone choosing hard floors instead of carpets, if it is their informed choice. After all, its THEIR home! They can do as they wish. What I stand for is people making 'INFORMED CHOICES' instead of the common thing, where they jump to all sorts of conclusions or follow trends and myths like blind sheep. There are heaps of furphies that are bandied around and I believe people ought to take time to be more discerning, and so choose what is right or best FOR THEM. Again, if someone is building their home, they look objectively at their options, and choose not to have carpets.... not a problem! But when people go on spruiking about how carpets are a "no-no" coz they are filthy and unhealthy, and such crap, I'll be quick to call out their misinformation! Its not me but certain people who have identified themselves as 'carpet haters' so to them I will let fly! Consider.... what if someone carried on saying that swimming pools should be banned. They are cesspools of filth & bacteria, a health hazard, and a drowning risk as well. They "hate" swimming pools! Would you think they are right and jump to their conclusions? Hellooooo... pools (like carpets) are what you make them, and if you neglect and abuse them, you get what you have created. Many people enjoy their beautiful pools that they tend and look after because they value the things the pool offers. Back to carpets... ALL FLOORCOVERINGS require some sort of maintenance. If you have chosen some flooring, it makes sense to find good reliable info about how to maintain it, and get the most out of it, understanding its strengths and weaknesses. No floorcovering is perfect in every situation. It is lunacy to choose something that is not suitable for its intended service, neglect it, abuse it, and then blame it for not being pristine! A little education can go a long way, and its about time people learned to make better choices and then live with those choices, instead of going on about how crap such-n-such is! Enuff for now! Ash. Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 15Sep 16, 2009 11:19 pm Zedman You can get adhesives that meet the standards for noise transmission. Asaphonic is one by ASA......a bugger to work with tho.. Standard flexinble rubber based adhesives will not meet standards. The other option is accustic underlay which comes in matt or rolls. This is adhered to the floor first then tile is adhered onto it. Your local tiles hop should be able to source them. Must admit never heard of the groove on tile thingy.... Also you may be interested in this product if not sure of tile or timber. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ regards Charlie Thanks so much for providing the name of the adhesive Charlie! That will really help me on this situation. Just a question on the underlay though, wont it result in the floor becoming a bit wobbly if its laid first, followed by the tiles? Im assuming this underly is some sort of cushy soft rubbery type of product? Also, what is the name of the product in the picture you provided? Are they floating floors? Cheers! Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 16Sep 16, 2009 11:56 pm royalblue Hi kb46, Even? Hardly! Opinions are not all equal. The difference is, my opinions are educated and based upon considerable study of the data and info that pertain to floorcoverings. I regularly see the issues that people have with their floorcoverings, I have studied indoor air quality, a bit about mycology and generally have made it my business to understand the pros and cons of various floorcoverings. As I am a carpet cleaning technician, I have a particularly good appreciation of what carpets offer. I'm not necessarily (as you retort) a 'carpet lover'! And I have no problems with someone choosing hard floors instead of carpets, if it is their informed choice. After all, its THEIR home! They can do as they wish. What I stand for is people making 'INFORMED CHOICES' instead of the common thing, where they jump to all sorts of conclusions or follow trends and myths like blind sheep. There are heaps of furphies that are bandied around and I believe people ought to take time to be more discerning, and so choose what is right or best FOR THEM. Again, if someone is building their home, they look objectively at their options, and choose not to have carpets.... not a problem! But when people go on spruiking about how carpets are a "no-no" coz they are filthy and unhealthy, and such crap, I'll be quick to call out their misinformation! Its not me but certain people who have identified themselves as 'carpet haters' so to them I will let fly! Consider.... what if someone carried on saying that swimming pools should be banned. They are cesspools of filth & bacteria, a health hazard, and a drowning risk as well. They "hate" swimming pools! Would you think they are right and jump to their conclusions? Hellooooo... pools (like carpets) are what you make them, and if you neglect and abuse them, you get what you have created. Many people enjoy their beautiful pools that they tend and look after because they value the things the pool offers. Back to carpets... ALL FLOORCOVERINGS require some sort of maintenance. If you have chosen some flooring, it makes sense to find good reliable info about how to maintain it, and get the most out of it, understanding its strengths and weaknesses. No floorcovering is perfect in every situation. It is lunacy to choose something that is not suitable for its intended service, neglect it, abuse it, and then blame it for not being pristine! A little education can go a long way, and its about time people learned to make better choices and then live with those choices, instead of going on about how crap such-n-such is! Enuff for now! Ash. Yeah ... but carpets are just plain ugly Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 17Sep 17, 2009 1:22 pm Why not vinyl planking? I gather that is what the photo is, it's quiet, waterproof, warm...ticks all boxes. Easy to repair, easy to install, easy to clean. i loooooove mine. Looks classy, don't immediately think yuck linoleum...its nothing like that. I have had people get down on their hands and knees to look at it to be sure I'm not pulling their leg when I say it's not real timber. Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 19Sep 17, 2009 5:37 pm Quote: As our Body Coroprate by laws are quite strict on noise, I guess you wont be allowed a television then! I think the Corporate is strict on party noise, not walking noise. Buy what you prefer. You should never have to replace tiles, but floorboards can be damaged/scratched by pets and fire. Re: Flooring dilemma - Tiles or Timber? 20Sep 17, 2009 8:40 pm if the body corporate is strict about noise I do not see how you can get tiles in there the noise tilers make to cut them is deafening at times I know and use angle grinders and wet cut saw. I guarantee you I've been there done that. Timber floors are easier to lay and to remove so I'll go for timber.
Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 15884 1 15704 1000000% definitely add insulation. I have in my home and it makes a big difference minimising sound transfer. Insulation is pretty cheap and definitely worth it 2 6173 |