Jan 27, 2007 4:20 pm
Hi'ya. Up come the carpets, in come the sanders.... and then what? Poly - Oil or Water, Tung, Ardvos or Synteko? What finish is best for me, the environmentalist, my Partner, the money man, and my two children under four!!!? Some sound advise please as it's all happening very soon.
Thank you for your time!
Re: Floorboards - What Finish?2
Jan 29, 2007 5:59 pm
Having young children I would recomend using two pack polly in gloss finish.
I know others will say to go semi gloss or satin or even tounge oil but in my experience two pack polly is the hardest finish you will get, and will outlast satin and semi gloss by about 5 years. satin and semi gloss are single pack finishes and have a lot lower solids than two pack pollys.
as for water based finishes, unless you apply at least five coats they will last only about 2 to three years.I know that there will be people who say that this is not true but I have been sanding and polishing timber floors for over 20 years now and at this point in time have not found a water based product that will out last two pac.
oil finishes are ok for commercial areas ie scools and clubs but are very high maintnence and do scratch much easier than two pac, again I know that some will disagree but unless you apply an acrylic sealer over oil 7 days after it is finished it will wear through to bare timber in the traffic areas within 1 to two years. If you put wax over your oil floor you will need to sand the timber back to raw timber before recoating. by keeping the floor clean you can apply acrylic sealer every 10 to twelve months and your floor should get arount 8 to 10 years wear.
by applying two pac polly in gloss you will also get about 8 to 10 years wear.
no mater what finish you go with you have to remember that this is a floor you are getting done, and no mater what finish you use , you are always going to get some surfice scratches.
two pack polly can be burbished back and recoated for around the same price of carpet cleaning. I often recoat two pack floors as they start to wear or become worn and scratched. best time to recoat is when you notice the floor starting to wear and look dull.depending on traffic, kids ect you should get about 6 to 8 years before needing a recoat.
so in six to eight years time depending on ware you can freshen up that timber floor, you call a floorsander in to recoat it. prices are around carpet cleaning costs,
eg: just last week i did a recoat on a rental property so it could be fresh when the new tenents moved in. it was 60 m2 and the price to cut back and re-coat was $250 the floor looks great and should see another five to six years before being coated again.
this post is based on my experiences only, as a floor sander who sands timber floors on a full time basis. everyone has there right of opinion. these are just mine.
hope this helps
Re: Floorboards - What Finish?3
Jan 30, 2007 2:10 pm
Thank you Barnsy for taking the time to reply to my post. Thats great. I hear you recommending TwoPac, as several people have done, and I understand the great advantages this product has when it comes to maintenance and strength. Perhaps you could help me to understand the toxicity of the product. Environmental papers I have read suggest it is banned in some European Contries and some States in the US, because of 'offgasing'. Is there any truth in that?
Re: Floorboards - What Finish?4
Jan 30, 2007 10:52 pm
two pack is fuemy while wet, once dry and the house is vented and aired out for about an hour all fuems are gone. two pac these days has had a lot of the toxins removed. It is not like the two pac that is used for spraying cars. I have been applying toby's lusterpol for about 15 to 18 years, before that and in between I have used wattle 7008 I have been inside many houses which are closed up. ie all windows and doors closed to keep contaminates out while coating, Iv had no health problems from useing toby's or wattle products. once a floor is finished and dry it is no different to you buying a kittchen cuboard that has been sprayed in two pac polyurothane and placed in your home. for a new floor say about 100m2 you will be out of the house for two nights, the first day it would be sanded and the first coat applied, the second day it would be second coated and will take lite traffic on the third day where any furnicture that can be lifted and placed can go back in. rugs should be left out for a couple of extra days or even upto a week depending on how warm the weather is, an old floor of 100m2 would take about three days depending on the condition of the floor. two pac is applied with rollers or aplicators and is not sprayed into the air like automotive paint so there is a lot less fuemes to deal with as well.
hope that this answers some of your questions.
for prices in sydney expect to pay around $24 to $26 m2 im doing a job down in chatswood next week for a local builder and am charging him $24 m2 the job is 60m2 and will cost him $1,440 price includes gst
below is a link to the product i use and is to provide information that will assist you, the customer, in preparing to have your floors sanded and finished and to give you an understanding of what is reasonable to expect from a professional applicator.
Re: Floorboards - What Finish?5
Jan 31, 2007 7:53 am
Barnsey, Your Cool!!! Thank you for your advice and your time, it is very much appreciated. What is your (or anyone elses) opinion on a poly type product called Synteko? Ever used it? www.spec-net.com.au/links/link0087.htm.
Re: Floorboards - What Finish?6
Jan 31, 2007 11:42 am
Hey how are you today
I used synteko products in my early years as a floor sander and used to buy all of my materials thrugh them, there products were ok back then, but i havent used them for at least 15 years, so i can't really comment on how good there product is. there are lots of products on the market these days and im sure that most of them would be ok.
I use toby lusterpol and have been useing it for a long time now, before that i used wattle 7008. the only time i tend to change products is if i start having problems with the finish im getting on my floors. I stopped useing wattle 7008 because I was having problems with it yellowing, and when cutting in, if i got any on the scerts it would look like i had spilt egg yoke on them, I have used 7008 since and had no problems with it.
the reason i use toby's products is because 1, I like the finish i get from it 2 Iv been using the product for a long time now and know how it works and how it can be repaired.
3, I know what products i can put over it without getting any reactions.
when i do semi gloss or satin finishes I like to apply a coat of two pac for the first coat, then I can put satin straight over the top.
the addvantages of doing this is that the two pac gloss has a 46 solids content and semi gloss and satin have 32 solids so your floor will last longer having the two pac base coat.
it is not recomended useing satin or semigloss for all three coats. they are used only for a finish coat because of the low solids content.
getting back to synteko, I would assume that there product would be ok, seeing as they have been around a long time now and would have sorted out there formulas. if there products wern't any good im sure that it would be publisised somewhere and we would of heard about it.
maintanence is the key to a great looking long lasting floor, if you keep the sand and grit away from them you will have a floor that will last you many years, joggers and stiletto's are a floors worst enamy. joggers have rocks trapped in the tread or sole and will scratch a floor. stiletto's have a sharp heal with the weight of a body pushing down on them and will leave small divits all over a floor.
no matter what finish you go with you will always get some scratching, as time goes by the floor will take on a look all of its own. a newley finished floor will show up scratches and marks that will stick out like the proverbial but once the floor is lived on for the first 6 months it will be at it peak and start to look like a floor should, it will gain a charecter all on its own and blend in with the rest of the house.
sorry for babbling on so much im not used to writing about my work and its easy to get carried away.
Re: Floorboards - What Finish?7
Feb 19, 2007 11:38 pm
I must say ahving read your posts/replys.... given I want a timber floor,, have the young kids thing etc... I found your advise/knowledge...aslo helpful..
Its good to hear a tradesman who is passionate and obviously proud of his work.... If you were in WA...I'd call you...
Re: Floorboards - What Finish?8
Mar 04, 2007 1:24 pm
I have a huge prob with the idea of having solvent vapour being released in your home from the 2pack product, even after it is dry ,it will still release fumes up to 3 months ,
Personally myself I would suggest using a waterbourne(waterbased) poly in a matt finish,
I'm pretty sure you would have the boni-x range of products in aus, They have a finish called traffic that is an oil look but still a poly,
I seen a lot of old sanders in New Zealand suffering the effects of years of using solvent products and only ever use water based products myself
Re: Floorboards - What Finish?9
Apr 16, 2007 2:09 am
I can share my experience of having a poly finish applied to our home a couple of years ago....
I should have known better, but agreed to the contractor we'd chosen who insisted that a solvent based gloss poly was the only product he'd apply.
The thing is, we have a smallish house that we had lived in several years. The timber floors went through the main central areas of the house and other rooms have thick wool carpets, curtains, furnishings and such.
Our contractor said to keep the house closed for 24 hours after the last coat was applied, then another day or two of airing before we could move in.....BAD ADVICE!!!!! We had good fine weather and the house wide open with powerful fans pumping air through the house for 4 days before we moved back in. We then had to move in and MAN that stuff is TOXIC!!!! The main problem in our case was that although much of the solvent had gassed off, everything in our home had absorbed it and continued emitting the gas for AT LEAST 2 WEEKS. All our clothing, soft furnishings and anything absorbant was high! Any exposed foodstuffs that was exposed had to be disposed of as a result.
A new empty home will not be such a problem, but even so, I'd not move anything in until all fumes had completely dissipated if a solvent product had to be used.
I don't know much about all the timber finishes, but I'd suggest you research carefully and lean towards a less toxic water-based product.
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