FLOORING

CrazyEyes · May 24, 2009 7:51 pm

Hi again,

Neorayez, would it be a good idea to deal direct with an installer only and pay cash? That is getting installer to supply and install the vinyl, since the store adds their margin to everything: the vinyl, the surface prep and the installation. Worried though about the risk of getting a dud installer so is it not worth the risk and better just paying the extra and let the store do it? Is there a way to find an installer myself who will do a good job here North of Brisbane?

The reason I ask is so far I have been seriously considering the Armstrong "Light Oak" but I went looking again today and found a gorgeous plank (Karndean's Renoir "Weathered Elm") but it is very $$$. Here is a link http://www.karndean.com.au/site/products.cfm?product_ID=1153

Everyone, I'm having difficulty finding "the one" because I want something with grey tones. I've linked a couple pics of Armstrong "Light Oak" (below). One of the pics shows my colours. The paint colour is the lightest one on the card (very hard to see but it's Dulux "Buff It - quarter". It is off white with the slightest tinge of pink). Tiles at bottom are for wets and above them are kitchen splash back tiles. Shiny laminate is diamond gloss "Tunisian Stone" for kitchen bench the other is "Alabaster" (with tinge of pink here too) for cupboards. I welcome any comments on the colour suitability of the Armstrong plank and the Karndean "Weathered Elm" linked above. Don't know if my camera picked up the colours accurately in the pics - the Armstrong plank looked yellowish/brown in the shot with flash on.

I'm really liking the Renoir "Weathered Elm" now, but gee it will hurt the bank account! The Armstrong "Light Oak" looks a little too brown after seeing the Renoir.

Pics of Armstrong "Light Oak"
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6294/house007c.jpg
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8485/house014e.jpg
here is another pic with flash on
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7770/house006.jpg

Here are some pics of the house showing all the colours. Yep it is very greyish/brown LOL. House is by Coral Homes - they are really good! I'm actually allowed to go inside and they even gave me a builder's key right from the start!!

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/3755/house020.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/8923/house029.jpg
http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/3755/house020.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/7295/house012.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6629/house015.jpg

PS: sorry cmt - I feel like I've hijacked your thread now. Hopefully I'm still asking Q's that you are wondering about too. Sometimes it's hard to know whether to start a new thread on the same topic since some forums hate that.

havingfun · May 24, 2009 9:44 pm

I really don't want to confuse you...

but....there is another product that we are looking at (as well as Karndean) which seems to be very similar - Polylflor (like Karndean, lots of brands/levels within that title! Camaro, Gerlor, Ceramica etc etc!) - and I know they have some grey-toned planks.. http://www.polyflor.com.au

Just in case you feel you need to make even more decisions :lol:

PS House is looking good!

neorayez · May 24, 2009 10:34 pm

Hi
I would advise against that CrazyEyes, for the simple fact of warranty. An installer would definately give you a better pirce for cash, but cash means no warranty.

Most guys out there would be subcontractors, so they would have minimal insurance if they were to do a "poor" job. When buying from a company, they provide you with a product warranty, and the subcontractors must provide a minimum 12 month installation warranty, which will be backed by the principle company.

Now if you can find a quality tradesman who specializes in this than its a different thing all together. Accepting a cash price means your trusting their workmanship. When your at shops looking at products ask them if they have prefered installers. Laying Karndean and other types of vinyl planking, is a specialized part of floorcovering, they will have phone numbers of installers they know will do a competent job.

The tiles you are looking at look great!! I tend not to get invloved with product prices. But i will say Karndean is considered one of the top of the range floorings. Also when considering price, just remember these floors are designed to last 10 years plus. Your gonna look at these everyday till you change them, get some samples and check them out in your house, the shops should give you samples to use at home.

From what i can see in the photos, your slab looks decent, will probably only need a minimal screed.

CrazyEyes · May 24, 2009 11:13 pm

Thanks neorayez - expected your answer to be as it was, but thought I may as well ask. I'm not much of a risk taker so prefer to pay an extra $1K - $2K for a good job and peace of mind. The Renoir is dear but as you and Michelle suggest it is worth spending $$$ on the floor.

With regards to the slab there are a couple of chunks missing due to the nail gun doing the timber framing i.e. connecting bottom wall plates to slab. They are about 20mm deep and about 70mm diameter directly adjacent to the wall frame. Is that an issue or can they just fill it with non-shrink grout or those leveling compounds they use. There is also some minor pitting - you know how they work the concrete with a float machine and the powdery cement on the surface flakes away (it would only be a couple mm deep).

Thanks again, just wish I had you here to do the install!

Rgds, Craig

PS: "havingfun" I'm going to drag the family around town again Thursday mainly getting quotes on the Renoir but I will be sure to check out the polyflor too" Thanks!

neorayez · May 24, 2009 11:58 pm

Hi

All sounds ok Craig. small holes like that are to be expected, they will get filled with an ardit or rapid set type filler, than i would say a 1-2mm coat of fetheredge, just to smoot out the slab. New houses will generally have a decent slab to work with. Problems arise when you start wanting to install this type of product in older houses.

Its funny you know, i found this site trying to find a plumber ! Saw the floor covering section and thought id have a look. In the time i have been here i reackon if i lived on the east coast i could of had myself a few jobs by now. but its all good, im happy to help people with advice if they need it.

cmt · May 26, 2009 10:10 pm

Crazyeyes (or anyone else) as you have seen the Armstrong Rhino Planks and at the moment I can't seem to find anywhere to go have a look at them. Can you tell me if they have a bevelled edge, I'm not too concerned if it is slight, but don't want a deep bevel, as I'm sure it will become a dust trap.

So as you can see, still on the search for "the right one", although at times I feel like I'm going round in circles and decision making is not my strong point!

Also have been told they are colder underfoot than floating floors, when I always thought the opposite, so am a bit concerned about that too.

TIA

CrazyEyes · May 26, 2009 11:27 pm

cmt, no they don't have a bevel edge. I linked some pics of them recently here.

Surprising that you can't find them anywhere. Not really sure about the temperatures - I haven't needed to consider that as I'm in Brisbane.

good luck!

Kristi · May 27, 2009 7:07 pm

Hi!

I was in 3 flooring stores today and all of them steered me away from Karndean. Most are saying the other products are just as good, and cheaper. I only got to have a look at one type of Karndean, and honestly don't even know which one it was now!

I like the Rhino ($65/m2)for the fact that you don't have to seal/polish it. But would it start to look a bit dull after a few years then?

With the other brands I looked at (Polyflor, and Floorworks ($65/m2), and Expona ($65/m2), and Harmony ($59/m2) they do require a special stripper and polish every so often.

How often do you really have to do that?

Any comments on the Harmony range? There were a huge range of colours to choose from, and price was $59/m2 installed.. without any negotiation.

At this stage I think I'm still heading towards the Armstrong Rhino. I like each individually and the combination of Pecan/Black Bean/Pacific Oak.

Sorry for adding my queries to the thread too! I'm a little overwhelmed with choice :::

Kristi

cmt · May 28, 2009 4:54 pm

Hi all,

Ok have got a few quotes and I think we may be close to a decision...I think? :th:

This is what we are looking at getting, looks a bit dark in some photos than it actually is:
http://www.karndean.com.au/site/products.cfm?product_ID=1570

What do you think??

Michelle, our furniture is rather dark, but our walls and curtains are light colours, do you think this would suit?? Do you think this flooring would suit any style of home?

I think I may go have another lookat them in the showroom before I decide...hopefully that will help me make a decision.

TIA

Kristi · May 28, 2009 7:52 pm

What prices have you been quoted on the Art Select? They look fantastic!!

Love Kristi

cmt · May 28, 2009 8:00 pm

Kristi

What prices have you been quoted on the Art Select? They look fantastic!!

Love Kristi

Around $115 sqm installed, also includes sealing them as well.

Jilly · May 29, 2009 9:43 am

Hi all

I posted previously - we are looking at the Karndean Knight Tile (budget - I know!) but popped into a shop when I was in the city the other day. They didn't sell Karndean but the guy was trying to sell me some other stuff instead saying that the Karndean is known to shrink (I think that was what he said!) He sold a similar product - could have been Polyfloor - anyone have any thoughts on that? ALthough if the only local retailer sells Karndean the I doubt that they would sell its alternative.

He also tried to steer me towards this other stuff that is laid like laminate but it sticks called Allure - there were only a few colours and it didn't really grab me but he seemed to think that because it wasn't glued down then you didn't have to worry about shrinkage - and also the floor didn't need as much preparation.

Also got my Karndean samples - liking the American Oak and Walnut - does anyone know if the American Oak can look a little on the cherry side (reddish) - I want to steer away from those tones.

Thanks

cmt · May 29, 2009 1:37 pm

cmt

Hi all,

Ok have got a few quotes and I think we may be close to a decision...I think? :th:

This is what we are looking at getting, looks a bit dark in some photos than it actually is:
http://www.karndean.com.au/site/products.cfm?product_ID=1570

What do you think??

Michelle, our furniture is rather dark, but our walls and curtains are light colours, do you think this would suit?? Do you think this flooring would suit any style of home?

I think I may go have another lookat them in the showroom before I decide...hopefully that will help me make a decision.

TIA

Well went out today and they look very different in a large sample, a bit too rustic looking for my liking...so back to square one. :cry:

cmt

Around $115 sqm installed, also includes sealing them as well.

Not sure how realistic that is for you as it includes removal & disposal of carpet and moving furniture.

Kristi · May 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Jilly: what price do you have for the knight tiles? i've found one I really like, called 'shannon oak'. I'm getting a sample from the website.

The colours I really liked for the Rhino has been discontinued, d'oh!

So now looking at floorworks Polished Elm. It's lovely. A very smooth finish, like polished floorboards though, so it might show up fine scratches a bit more readily.

Love kristi

CrazyEyes · May 30, 2009 7:29 pm

Hi,

I finally made a decision and I'm getting the Armstrong "Rustic Oak" vinyl plank and an extra heavy duty SDN carpet (colour is "Cocoa") with a dense cut pile. Here is a pic of the vinyl and carpet with the other colours I have.

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6629/house015.jpg

The vinyl is a wide plank with rustic look which is completely different to what I initially had in mind. This one seems to be the right colour and I think the pattern will hide any minor marks quite well. I just hope it isn't too dark for the large area I am doing. Getting it laid maybe the week after next.

Price for this plank was $61 sqm installed but that doesn't include slab prep which will be another $1100 because the builder did a very average job on the slab surface. And there is no sealing being done for this vinyl.

Craig.

cmt · May 30, 2009 8:07 pm

You've done well "crazyeyes"!

I on the other hand am back at the beginning.

CrazyEyes · May 30, 2009 8:39 pm

Kristi

I was in 3 flooring stores today and all of them steered me away from Karndean. Most are saying the other products are just as good, and cheaper.

I got exactly the same story, and I think there is some issue between Karndean and the retailers. But I wouldn't let it put you off getting Karndean if they have the plank you want.

Kristi

I like the Rhino ($65/m2)for the fact that you don't have to seal/polish it. But would it start to look a bit dull after a few years then?

I'm not interested in stripping and polishing either, just pushing the hoover around once in a blue moon is a big enough chore for me. I've been told that none of these polyurethane coated planks really need to be sealed or polished, but Karndean apparently made it a warranty condition. Armstrong recommends against doing any sealing or polishing at all - but like the others they do sell a recommended cleaner. I've also been told that if you do decide to polish then you are committing yourself to redoing it periodically in the future.

We have an unsealed vinyl plank at work (no idea which product). It gets a lot of abuse and gets some scuff marks, but after it is cleaned (maybe twice a year) it looks fine - definitely not dull. But if you want a glossy finish you will have to polish.

Kristi

With the other brands I looked at (Polyflor, and Floorworks ($65/m2), and Expona ($65/m2), and Harmony ($59/m2) they do require a special stripper and polish every so often.

How often do you really have to do that?

Any comments on the Harmony range? There were a huge range of colours to choose from, and price was $59/m2 installed.. without any negotiation.

I'm not sure how often it needs to be stripped and polished. The Karndean floor care guide suggests every 6 months. I looked at the Kenbrock products "Floorworks" and "Harmony" and I didn't think they were as nice (aesthetically) as Karndean, Polyflor, Armstrong.

Regards, Craig.

CrazyEyes · May 30, 2009 8:56 pm

cmt

You've done well "crazyeyes"!

I on the other hand am back at the beginning.

Sorry to hear that cmt. I also looked at the Art Select range you mentioned, but I didn't like the surface texture. The salesman called it the "scraped" look - but to me it almost looked like the surface had failed or delaminated, with surface bubbles. In your link to the product on the karndean website - images 3 of 5 and 5 of 5 show the effect the most.

http://www.karndean.com.au/site/products.cfm?product_ID=1570

Regards, Craig.

cmt · May 30, 2009 10:00 pm

At the moment we are looking at the Van gogh again, this is the one we are looking at, looks darker in these photos:
http://www.karndean.com.au/site/products.cfm?product_ID=1072

But the Van gogh dosen't have a smooth finish, it has a textured finish, although in this colour, it's not as noticable. But because I like a glossy finish, I'm concerned that once they are polished up they will look "fake" ot just not quite right. Unless I give up the glossy finish and just go for matt.

It seems that each product I look at if it has one thing I'm after it doesn't have another! Or maybe I'm just too fussy, although it will be something I have to look at everyday, so I have to like it 100% don't I?

Kristi · May 30, 2009 11:08 pm

cmt: i'm in the same boat as you! I find one thing I like about a certain product.. ie. the slip resistant nature of the armstrong surfaces.. but don't like the colours as much as the others :roll:

. Or the woodgrain will look quite realistic, and then I don't like the texture.. etc etc.. goes on and on, lol. Good luck! just opened the link.. i really like the antique karri! beautiful. the first one makes it look a bit reddish.. but the others are lighter. will have to look at that in real life.

Craig: well done for finding something that you like!! I definately like the wider planks in the armstrong, the wood has more feature to it. I personally really like the look and feel of the floorworks/harmony.. but as you mentioned, I'm not the most fantastic housekeeper either!

I will see if i can drag DH down to the floor shop tomorrow. Always good to have some fresh eyes looking at it.

Love Kristi