Aug 16, 2014 6:10 pm
Just thought I'd share my journey so far with Oak Tree Estate in North Kellyville. My wife and I saw the signs and got to the sales office one weekend, but it was closed. We thought nothing of it, and just took a photo of their sign which had the agents' phone numbers and website: oaktreeestate.com.au
Funnily enough, the website doesn't exist. Eventually, we got to sales office when it was open. They had a price list, and a proposed sub-division map, as well as a cardboard A3 (folded to A4) sales speel about the how close the area is to the M2/M7 and shops (for anyone trying to get on the M2/M7 from Kellyville, you will know that it is a big hassle). The guy with a moustache (who I later found out was Ian Handley) said that the land would be registered in August next year, the only convenants were lapped pailing fences with steel posts. Given that he said that the $1000 holding deposit was fully refundable, I put money down on lot 810 (community title, gated private road, fees of $800/yr).
Having made this move, I started researching the lot and the development (oaktree estate). I found that lot 810 had a tree on it (that I would have to clear, as the developer wouldn't be clearing rocks and trees - we would bear those costs directly), and had a 2.5m fall from back left (highest) to front right (lowest). After talking to my father-in-law who has some investment properties and has done a few rennovations in his time, I started asking Hills Council about flood and fire risk.
To research more about Oak Tree Estate, I needed some sort of reference number or location to talk with Council. I found that most of the lots up for sale at OakTreeEstate are on 13 Barry Road (look at the letter box number in front of the fenced-off old fibro house to the left of the sales office). From their lot maps, the development may possibly cover numbers 3 to 19 Barry Road (current house numbers on Barry Road).
Almost all of Oak Tree Estate is currently Bush Fire Prone Land Vegetation Category 1 (or is in the buffer zone). See http://www.thehills.nsw.gov.au/download ... mentID=414
More fire info:
http://www.thehills.nsw.gov.au/Ignition ... 20land.pdf
http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/plan-and-prep ... and-design
Of course, getting a house built to BAL29 specs is a significant additional cost. However, when the trees get knocked down, the Bush fire threat will be reduced.
When it comes to flood levels, I found out that I'm able to see the flood extent mapping in person, but would have to pay to take the data away ($84 for flood extent, levels, etc.). Cautiously, the flood duty officer in council said that lot 810, in its current position, is unlikely to be flood affected.
Came across a map of all the Street Names in North Kellyville (very helpful as it named all the proposed roads as well as the existing ones):
http://www.thehills.nsw.gov.au/Ignition ... 5B1%5D.pdf
(Oaktree is supposed to cover from Nagar, Mebbin and Kinglake in the North to Garigal in the South).
And info on a "Rain Garden" (previously known as a rubble pit) that every property needs to have:
http://www.thehills.nsw.gov.au/Ignition ... 0Sheet.pdf
(I noticed that Allam and Rawson and some of the other House and Land people manage to put the rain garden on the street, sometimes in the median-strip, so that the actual properties they sell don't have individual rain gardens)
I drove back up to the sales office (closed again) and took a photo of the sign, hoping for the developer's company name. I saw Searchfield properties. I went to look up the company on ASIC (Australian Securities and Investments Commission) https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/Regis ... 9ew2gpct_4 and found that they had been established in May 2014. I called Ian (one of the Agents) and left a message.
Later Ian got back to me and explain that Searchfield is the Marketing company, and the developers is someone else. I asked who the developer is, and after some pressing he told me that it was such-and-such, but couldn't remember the spelling. Later, I got a copy of the deposit form emailed to me (by David Glasheen, the other agent) and found the developer was listed as YNOX Pty Ltd. Hit the ASIC website again and found that the developer's company was also established in May this year https://connectonline.asic.gov.au/Regis ... 0evbw82b_9
Back to lot 810 again. I talked to some builders. 2.5m drop across the 600sqm might be doable without splitting the slab, but would need serious retaining walls. I knew splitting the slab would be expensive and we would be forever burdened with a split-level home, but would be better than a split level house. Further discussion with a builder revealed that 1/2 metre is the most drop you can have across a property without using retaining walls.
More talking with builders. Found out that developers typically sell before the subdivision is through council. Developers only have an option to purchase the land, so they don't have to own it and pay Land Tax. David Glasheen reassured me that the developers are very experienced, that no bank finance is involved, and that my questions should be covered by my solicitor, rather than myself. He referred me to Blue Horizons up on Stringer Road and said that they did the marketing up there for the same developer. I asked who the developer was, he said "Fifen" [edited to include correct company name, Fifen Pty Ltd]
I understand why a developer would start a new company for each development - it allows them to quarrantine each one, so that if Oak Tree goes bad, it doesn't impact Blue Horizons and vice-versa. It is the nature of a Pty Ltd (a proprietary limited company) that legal and financial liability is limited. The company can go bust, and the directors can simply walk away with no financial liability.
The subdivision for the Allam development on Hillview Road was put to council in Oct 2011, approved early 2012 and they are just starting to sell their House+Land Packages now. The first stage of Hillview estate (a bit further up on Hillview Road) just opened today and they had something into council earlier this week. Makes the OakTree Estate with no Deposited Plan number and nothing in council look really behind. I really don't know how long Oak Tree Estate could take, but I would like it to be registered in Aug 2015 like Ian said it would be.
If you are considering OakTreeEstate.com.au or are buying land from Ian or David, I'd love to hear your experiences. What have you been told?
NB: thinking of building with Wincrest
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville2
Aug 17, 2014 2:50 am
Hey fellow Oak Tree Estate-er,
its a little worrying to see this as being the first post to do with the land we are looking to purchase! but i commend you on being thorough with your research!
We "purchased" a plot from David sometime last month, it is not a part of the gated estate but from their earlier release of land! I say "purchased" as the lawyers still have the paper work and we will probably end up finalising sometime in the next week or two assuming everything goes dandy.
As a salesperson experience, dealing with David has been good. He's happy to answer questions and take to on a walk to look at the potential site of your land. We did however also deal with closed doors at the sales office but it seems to be because of the land selling so fast that they don't even need to be on site! (Try the weekends though, that worked for us).
When i did speak to him prior to giving the deposit he did mention a June/July 2015 registration for our plot but with the blue horizon estate being delayed even further and him mentioning on using the same contractor to prep oak tree estate once blue horizon is finished, it has become a little worrying. In his own words though "we tend to stick close to our promised deadlines, whilst other are running 12-16 months behind schedule", not sure how true that's going to hold up to be with the people over at blue horizon.
I did go from looking to lock in a building contract sometime this month to going on to waiting until maybe Q1/Q2 next year when we have a little more clarity on how the land is progressing. Specially as it will effect the price due to the final contours, levels and bush fire hazard rating for the plot. It does also mean we have to deal with possibly 2 price rises from the project builders, but c'est la vie!
To answer your question on the changing of plots due to it not having been submitted to council, when we were talking with David, he did mention them having meeting with the council to try and get the land into the system, but they were having some pushback due to certain lot sizes that needed to be changed, which they were trying to comply with.
To their credit though, it seems like their "advertised" size of a given plot, is a little lower than what the actual dimensions of the plot are! E.G. a plot that is 14.5m wide and 33m deep is advertised at 450m2 whilst the actual area with those dimension would be 478.5m2 so there is some leeway there without delivering smaller land than promised.
I am in the same boat as you though, now double thinking the decision to give the 10% or just walk away and wait for land to open up on foxall/hillview/hezellett/barry but the prices only seem to be going higher and higher, may need to sleep on that though.
P.S. David seems to be some what active on the forum, at least in respect to the Blue Horizon Estate thread so that gives me hope that they won't just scatter away.
P.P.S. looking at building either with eden brae or wisdom, but they all seem to just jack up their prices just out of our budget for the size we want
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville3
Aug 19, 2014 2:32 pm
Trooper! Going through the contract found the name of the major company responsible for the development, it's "Fifen pty ltd".
Info from ASIC.
Name: FIFEN PTY LTD
ACN: 087 445 958
ABN: 27 087 445 958
Registration date: 6/05/1999
Next review date: 30/09/2014
Type: Australian Proprietary Company, Limited By Shares
Locality of registered office: EDGECLIFF NSW 2027
Regulator: Australian Securities & Investments Commission
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville4
Aug 20, 2014 9:31 pm
Great work misterkash. It seems that you've found the company behind Blue Horizon. Given that they set up a new company for each development, I wonder who is behind these developments?
Checked council again for applications - nothing yet.
For reference, this is Blue Horizon Estate applications http://apps.thehills.nsw.gov.au/DATrack ... LE&21=&22=
I wonder what "a flood controlled lot" is? http://apps.thehills.nsw.gov.au/DATrack ... key=232203 it applies to 13 Barry Road
Interesting delay and driveway info from Blue Horizon viewtopic.php?f=66&t=69269&p=1219064&hilit=blue+council#p1219064 I wonder how it will play out in Oaktreeestate ?
[edit: removed my observation about stakes, as I was wrong. Apologies]
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville5
Aug 20, 2014 10:32 pm
Fifen seem to be the ones behind it all, yeah they setup subsidiaries for each new development or so it seems but honestly I would do the same if I was them, have a look at your contract when you get it, it's actually mentions all parties involved.
As for the stakes, i wouldn't worry too much, they we're going to get removed when they bring the trucks and the rest in anyway, and a third party could have done so, i'm certain those lots have had their deposits taken as well, maybe it means they have exchanged contracts? I'd call the agents if your really worried.
Looked into the flood control part because i found that interesting.
Some info here:
http://www.sutherlandshire.nsw.gov.au/B ... rtificates
But looking at surrounding developments and the rest of Barry road, all was classified as Flood Prone, but as they get developed the land gets approved for subdivision it is shown as not flood prone, I'm guessing all the street drains will help move the water away unlike just soil. It also appears most of the warning was due to one edge of the plot being near smalls creek.
As for delays, I spoke to the agents, they say not to worry about blue horizon, our plots should be in for DA in the next month or two once the entire property of Oak Tree Estate gets sorted out, and only get worried if we don't see trucks move before the end of the year, so i'm hopeful. Also to point out Blue Horizon is being built on a lot of environmental living land, which had no prior infrastructure where are barry road has already had a majority of infrastructure already in place and working, stuff like storm water drains, amenities etc so even sitting in its current state it's in pretty good shape.
Still very early days for Oak Tree, lets see how we progress along once the DA is filed.
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville6
Aug 23, 2014 11:28 pm
Hey guys, I've put down a deposit on one of the community title lots today. They didn't have any contours available but I was reassured by Ian and David that the falls in my lot was around 1.5m front to rear. How did you guys find out the falls for your plots if the DA with that information has not been lodged?
Also I was told that land registration will be August next year but from trooper79's post it seems that it will be a lot longer according to Council? Also how do I find out if there are trees in the area apart from Google Maps? Ian said the developer will remove trees that impact house construction.
I also noticed that the community titled lots are in E4 - Environmental Living which according to the original North Kellyville DCP, minimum lot size is 4000m2 with maximum floor space ratio of 35% for ground floor etc. But according to the agents the controls for these lots are the same for adjoining R2 torrens title because of an amendment to SEPP by Hills Shire? Not sure if it's true but I can only believe them.
Also similarly concerned about the BAL29 rating. Hopefully it will come down to BAL14 once the site has been cleared?
But anyway, hopefully when I get the contours it will be OK and I can progress with exchange of contract etc. Early days and it's our first land purchase. Nervous but excited!
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville7
Aug 24, 2014 12:37 am
Welcome to the club? can we call it a club now? i feel its cooler to be called a club.
Congrats on the deposit! It's our first land too, definitely a nerve wrenchingly exciting time!
For the falls, i was given a map of the lot with fall lines already on them so thats how i knew, this was also like stage 1 or 2 and the lot in located in the open field part of the estate so they might have been able to access it a whole lot easier. Most of the land there seems to be on that very gradual slope anyway and with the restrictions on floor space ratio you'll probably only encounter a 1m fall, (maybe 1.2m if your pushing the boundaries). At least thats what it is in my case and I have those lines going thru at about 1/3s down my plot.
As for registration, I've been told June/July, so I'm assuming once they finish mine they'll head to yours, i wouldn't worry about it taking 2-3 years honestly, because your contract has a sunset clause of november/december 2015 anyway. Also the hills shire council is getting quite good at doing these types of DA requests now that the entirety of North Kellyville is filing for them, so expect a speedy process.
E4 seems to be a hard sell, unless you got a really big piece of land for a very little amount of moolah , check out the DA track link trooper shared, go thru the other properties and they seem to be reclassified once they get their estates and lot numbers! also like i said before the council is being flooded with these requests and they have a vision to create a certain amount of homes and jobs in the area by 2020 (or 2018 or something in that timeframe), so they'll be relaxing on the strict guidelines proposed way back when!
I feel your pain for the BAL, though I've never heard of BAL14 (i have of 12.5 and 19), last i spoke to David, he is hoping the estate gets a 12.5 so fingers crossed! but we'll only find that out once everything has been cleared. Once you get your contract to your lawyers, ask them to send you a copy and go thru it, should contain maps of the estate and surrounding lots, check to see the position from the edge of the reserves etc...
Hope everything works out well with your contours! Best of luck for contracts exchange! though in my opinion the hardest part is already behind you! (that being choosing a lot you like, in the right location at the right price!).
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville8
Aug 24, 2014 7:02 pm
Thanks misterkash! Haha it's definitely a club now.
Thanks for all that information. I will do some research.
There's one other concern, I can't seem to work out the setbacks for North Kellyville? In the DCP it's generally 4.5m for front, 0.9/1.8m for sides and 4m for rear (first floor) and 6m (second floor). But I've heard otherwise for rear setbacks if you go down the CDC path?
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville9
Aug 24, 2014 10:49 pm
This is the DCP for North Kellyville.
Pages of note:
Page 88 = front setbacks
Page 90 = side setbacks
Page 94 = rear setbacks
Page 98 = floor space ratio
But if your home is classified environmental living this may not apply.
This is the CDC.
Check out section 3.10 to 3.20 for floor space ratios and setbacks.
If your planning on owner building then i'd go thru these documents at least a dozen times, if you just want to see how big you can make it, those pages I've highlighted will outline that information and i'd just get one of the big home builders to work out what they can do for you. Remember if your building a double story, your setback is further away from the boundary BUT you can have single store parts of the house between the two limits. (eg. have your rumpus and alfresco in that buffer zone of 5m between the double story and single story setback limits.
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville10
Aug 25, 2014 8:24 am
Thanks for that information MisterKash.
I've spent some quality time reading through the North Kellyville DCP both the one on the Growth Centre Commission's website (dated July 2014) and the one you linked to (2011). It seems that on the 2011 version, rear setbacks for land >15m width is 6m (first storey) and 8m (second storey). But on the 2014 version currently on the GCC website, the rear setback is 4m (first storey) and 6m (second storey). I can only assume that the latest version of the DCP on GCC website is the one that I should be referring to?
As for CDC, my impression is that rear setback is 3m (first storey) and 8m (second storey). If one was to make an application for a house through the CDC process, would the CDC setback requirements take precedence over the North Kellyville DCP?
So confused, new to this game!
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville11
Aug 25, 2014 1:09 pm
Oh damn! did not realise they have a 2014 version! and yeah they seem to be more relaxed with their rear setbacks which is good to hear! I would too follow the 2014 one.
Link for anyone reading this in the future:
http://growthcentres.planning.nsw.gov.a ... lPlan.aspx
As for DCP vs CDC, you can choose which ONE to comply with and go with that, you will still have to meet council requirements of rainwater tanks and rain gardens though!
Most builders want CDC, reason being, even though its more strict, it takes a 7 to 10 DAYS to pass, (rather than 4-6 weeks for DA from council) and its the same across the whole state, so its much easier to comply to. It also is presented in a checklist form so there is no guessing if what you put forward will pass or not, if it meets the requirements it will.
The DA will usually let you build bigger, so if you are trying to build to the limits then follow that, but the CDC is usually very close to that same number anyway!
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville12
Aug 26, 2014 10:00 am
Yep the 2014 NK DCP is a bit more generous in terms of rear setbacks.
I called Council today and enquired regarding the E4 community title lots. I was told by the Duty Building Surveyor that the community title E4 lots will most likely be allowed to adopt the adjoning precinct's setbacks, which is great to hear. She said that there has been a few already been through Council and that is the approach that has been adopted.
But this raises the question of whether CDC as the approval method. I will need to speak with a builder/certifier (or three) to confirm this.
I think the gated community title area with bigger land is an excellent idea and a good break from the <450m2 lots that are becoming commonplace these days... But anyway, still early days.
Yet to receive contract or any further details. We shall see!
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville13
Aug 28, 2014 2:52 pm
I've had a look through the contracts as my solicitor received them this week. Important points:
1. There is no cooling off period (they explicitly ask you to waive it)
2. According to David, the developer will not accept a "subject to purchaser's finance" clause.
So, once contracts are exchanged, there is no way out. Even if the bank is happy to lend money to me now, they may not be willing to lend me money in 12 or 18 months (upon registration of the lot's title). In such a case, the developer can take me to court to force me to pay.
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville14
Aug 29, 2014 9:03 am
You mentioned that you wanted contours. Below [were] a bunch of photos I took from my phone of the contour maps. I hope you can find what you are looking for. Some of these pics are proposed sewerage or easement diagrams. At any rate, it hasn't gone through council, so the sewerage plans for each lot can change. Further, until it's stamped as approved by council, the size, dimensions, position, orientation, slope, rockiness of soil, and number of trees on each lot is subject to change.
[edit: removed links to my photos of contour maps. Given that the lot dimensions have changed, no information is better than mis-information]
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville15
Aug 29, 2014 10:31 am
When going through my contract, I see that they've renumbered the community title blocks. For example, lot 810 has become lot 14. I talked with David G about this, and they said they had to renumber (no reason given).
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville16
Aug 29, 2014 2:17 pm
Wow trooper79, you're a champ! Thanks for the contours.
David has also sent me some contours but only for the lot I've put down a deposit on. It's good to sea contours for the entire estate. Slopes are relatively gentle it seems, so that's a definite plus. It's good building land.
I am also aware that they had to change the lot numbers for the community title blocks. Presumably due to directions from Council. Looking forward to DA lodgement, which will most likely contain soil, vegetation and bushfire reports.
Also trooper79, how did you determine if there will be trees on your block? Through Google aerials?
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville17
Aug 29, 2014 2:28 pm
1. There is no cooling off period (they explicitly ask you to waive it)
2. According to David, the developer will not accept a "subject to purchaser's finance" clause.
Hi trooper79, good info from the contract. I've yet to receive mine (David says next week hopefully).
With regards to those two points, when I bought my PPOR last year, the market was red hot (and still is today) and so many vendors did not want to take risks with the cooling off period clause, and explicitly removed it from the contracts. Rationale is that if you don't buy with that clause, then someone else will... It's a vendor's market, or at least that's what the majority believes.
Similar thing with the 'subject to finance' clause. I believe it's not as common to see that clause in NSW contracts especially in a hot vendor's market. But from experience it's a lot more commonplace in Queensland. It's additional risk for the vendor.
From what it seems Oak Tree Estate is selling well especially the R2 part of the estate. Personally the community title area seems nice, but hopefully there won't be ridiculous by-laws such as not allowing hanging of laundry outside, pets etc etc?
I've also called Council regarding E4 zoning and community titles. Apparently community title lots on E4 adjacent to R2 can adopt the same setbacks as the adjoining R2 zone. I couldn't find reference to this in the latest version of the North Kellyville DCP, I could only find 'narrower blocks with reduced setbacks' but no definition of the 'reduced setbacks'. However in an earlier version there is reference to the E4 adoption of adjoining controls.
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville18
Aug 29, 2014 10:37 pm
Great to see so many keen people discussing Oak Tree Estate.
I am David Glasheen the agent marketing the estate along with Ian Handley.
Whilst we appreciate feedback and open discussion some of the posts to date are inaccurate and I will do my best to answer some of those now.
Summary: Blue Horizon Estate
Stage 1 Developer - Kavshan Pty Ltd
Stage 2 Developer - Fifen Pty Ltd
Stage 3 Developer - Cleia Comito
Stage 4 Developer - Fifen Pty Ltd
Proposed Stage 5 - Kavshan Pty Ltd
Agent: Travleah Pty Ltd t/as Handley Partners Property - Ian Handley & David Glasheen
Contract Sunset Clause 30th November 2014
Summary: Oak Tree Estate
Stage 1, 2, Part 4, 5, 6, Part CT - Ynox Pty Limited (Same Director/address as Fifen Pty Ltd)
Stage 3, Four blocks to be released
Part CT - Cavasign Pty Ltd
Agent: Searchfield Properties - Ian Handley & David Glasheen
The Vendor is clearly stated on the Land Reservation Form and on the front page of the Contract.
Thorough searches will reveal that the developer/s have purchased and settled on a number of properties in North Kellyville with the balance under options or exchanged awaiting settlement. This is a common practice, further searches would reveal that the developers have placed caveats if they have an interest in the property.
I stand by any comments made by me where I have referred your questions back to your Solicitor or Conveyancer, this is a prudent step to safeguard purchasers and they are best placed to explain the Contract and any perceived pitfalls.
As previously stated Ian & I are also the agents for Blue Horizon Estate (10,12,14,14a, 16 Stringer Road) with the exception of part of Stage 1, 16 Stringer Road, (marketed by Clarendon Homes as House & Land Packages). I don't see the relevance of the electrical easement in this post, purchasers in this estate are aware of the easement on 16-18 Stringer Road.
All of the contracts issued have a sunset clause none of these refer to 3, 4, or 5 years time.
Cooling off period: Our land reservation process is very straight forward. $1000 reserves a block, you than have up to 14 days (we need to have any request for amendments in the first 7 days) from the date your Solicitor/Conveyancer receives the Contract. Change your mind for any reason and your money is refunded within 14 days. Effectively you have 14+ days to make up your mind and Exchange. This process is made very clear when reserving a block along with our 10% deposit or deposit bond requirement.
We are always very careful to inform prospective purchasers that they should not reserve a block and lock in a building contract immediately. Hopefully those of you that recall me saying so will add your comments to this thread.
It remains important to compare apples with apples, we are currently selling land off the plan. Making a comparison to home builders selling House & Land Packages who have lodged/obtained a DA to develop smaller blocks etc is not reasonable.
Trooper79: I note that you have since reserved a second block at Oak Tree Estate.
For those of you that have questions or concerns about the estate I am available 9am-9pm 7 days a week on 0423747915
Alternatively we would be pleased to make a time to see you at the site office.
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville19
Aug 30, 2014 7:59 pm
To your question about trees. I simply drove down to the lot, hopped out of the car, walked over the land and checked out the rockiness of the soil and counted the number of trees. some trees are tagged with a colour Fluro strip and a small metal plate engraved with a number. other trees do not have these markers.
For lots in numbers 11 and 11A Barry rd, there are still people living there, so I don't go on their land. I stand on number 13 Barry road and take photos.
It's not just the number of trees, but the size of the trees. It takes longer to chip a 100 year old tree than it does to chip a 30 year old tree. Time is money, hence more expense for bigger trees.
In normal contexts, real estate agents are keen to walk you over the land or through the house because that action entitles them to a commission if there is a sale. I have not seen the agents at oak tree bother to walk anyone over their lot. Maybe it works differently if they are exclusive agents.
[edit: added photos]
Re: Oak Tree Estate, North Kellyville20
Aug 30, 2014 8:14 pm
In relation to the by-laws on the community title blocks, there are many ridiculous provisions. You can't hang your laundry outside on your balcony etc. If you have a cat, it must have a collar with a bell (pets make enough noise without a bell - and most pets are microchipped these days). There are soooooo many more restrictions in there.
Having read through the various by-laws in the contract, I decided that if I go through with this, then at our first community meeting I'll propose that we get rid of half the by-laws. Actually, the laws of the nation are enough, so it would be better to scrap all the by-laws. Nobody benefits from unnecessary restrictions. The more these community title lots mirror Torrens title lots, the better our resale values will be and the more freedom we will have from nit-pickers. I don't want to be in a situation where in the future I'm trying to rent or sell my property and the inane restrictions cause someone to hesitate and me to lose out financially.
For anyone else on community title, how do you feel about restrictions?
[edit: realised it might be good to scrap all the by-laws]
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