Roof support, want to remove some walls

I have a brick house with 3 bedrooms and in the bedrooms are recessed robes which vary in widths 1.2m, 1.5m and 1.8m. The doors on the robes are 820mm wide hinged doors in a steel frame and I would like to open up the access to the robes to their maximum, so will need to remove some wall then I can put in place sliding door access.
Had a look in the roof cavity and only one out of the 3 is non load bearing, another has a hanger from the bedroom finish on the wall plate and in another bedroom the wall I wish to remove has a strut placed on it.

I am going to DIY but need some reassurance I have the details correct before I proceed. The bedroom with the hanger I am going to add half a meter to the hanger with a butt join then sister a piece to it which I will make at least one metre long and rest it above the wall plate (back wall of the robe) with the extension piece. Then bolt them together.
For the strut I am going to place a strutting beam over the opening (2 x 120x35 f17 beams which according to the A.S chart will support the roof area over the span).

One thing I am unsure of is what to use under the strutting beam as a spacer as it is suggested a 25mm packer placed betweeb the wall plate and the strutting beam.

Any help confirmation that this seems OK please. Or is there something else I need to be doing?

Hi Rodels,

Is there any chance of getting some photos?
Another idea could be putting a head in above your sliding doors then there is no need to prop anything in the roof. Also if you do place a strutting beam over the opening i would recommend going a little larger on the section size.

Sorry i couldnt be more help without seeing it or photos.

Regards,
Dan
www.bespokebuildingconsultants.com.au
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@bespokebuildingconsultants

Your information is incorrect 120 x 35 available pine is not F17 grade or are you using Jarrah either way I doubt your hanging/strutting beam is sufficient in size? Which span tables are you referring to?
Structural alterations require Certified Engineering Drawings please check with your local Council

I took some photos but the area was too dark and photos are way to under exposed to see anything. I will get a DSL and flash up there ASAP. The wall is brick and have looked at steel lintels but I can not easily insert them because the lintel is wider than the actual opening and there is a robe wall in the way. I could make the openings half a brick either side smaller than the robe itself so I could slip in a lintel but I want to maximise the robe opening.

The span tables are from AS 1684.2 table 27. Also if you look at for example Hyspans table a 170x63 will support 6m2 of tiled roof and span up to 2.5m. That is an overkill for my 1.5m opening. I can easily source Wesbeam lengths so am currently studying their charts. I think the strut is for a valley rafter only no underperlin, and the rafters themselves are only about 3-4m in length, so very small load.

Can you put in a new strut back onto the wall behind rather than worry about the beam?

I'm not sure where to extend it to. The photo above shows the room and robe walls in black outline,the joists are green and the red dot shows the position of the strut and where it is on the wall that has the framed door in which I wish to remove. The simplest way I believe for me to tackle this job is to place a strutting beam across the opening. This is because I can easily set up the beam next to the strut and mark it with a pencil then with my circular saw cut the strut remove the foot of the strut and slip the beam in place then restrain the beam.

Thanks for the reply
At a quick glance at AS1684.2 table 27 you are way off with 2x 120X35 Pine substitutes
I suggest a much deeper/stiffer beam, BTW Structural Beam Plans are required to be Engineer and Building surveyor Certified.
OT. If it's an illegal renovation, IMO, it's not worth getting caught, worse still if something goes wrong and someone gets hurt you may loose your house in court battle costs. Goodluck with that
Always apply for the right Planning and building permits.

Why are you mentioning pine?

One would assume if you are building in WA you would be using off the shelf products.
As for F17 Timber 120 x 35 sizes in perth? Here Bunnings provides a useful resource.
f17 Timber 120 x 35
MGP12 Timber 120 x 35
Stick with LVLs Timber. hth

You could strut where the 2 purple dots are. Straight down off the valley. Struts should be strapped at the top and blocked at the bottom to prevent movement. You'll probably find that the existing strut doesn't have this but it's the approved method to prevent them moving.
Just as a tip. Never cut a strut without putting in alternative strutting, temporary struts or propping the roof members. If you cut or remove an existing existing strut prior to taking the weight and the roof drops you have a real job on your hands to get it back to where it's meant to be.

OK so my information I put up in the photo was actually incorrect. I got up there this morning with better light and a good camera and flash and you can see that the strut is actually supporting an underperlin and my joist are running perpendicular to what I drew.



Now the picture is totally clear as to my situation and I now realise that a strutting beam is not the best answer here.

Now I am thinking along the lines of this configuration. The red line is the section where the wall I am wanting to remove, The yellow are two new struts and the green is bracing.




Mimic what has been done here.

Rang the council today and no permit required for internal works.

Did you get it in writing?
Here City of Canning website ( and all WA councils are the same)

Do I need a Structural Engineer’s certification for alterations to a dwelling?
Yes, you will need to have the design checked and certified by a professional Structural Engineer.
Building Information Sheet: Dwellings and Alteration

OT what they don't tell you on Council websites is that retrospective planning and building approvals
will cost you up to 5 times the initial cost with penalties on resubmitting, plans ,engineering, inspections,certifications, etc,etc
Unauthorised Building Works

Your councils in WA must be a lot more anal than they are here in Sydney SBG. Most of them don't want to know about something this minor. I would however get an idea from an engineer or at least 5 minutes of a builders time to point you in the right direction if you are still unsure.

Stewie

Any structural alteration will require a building permit. Before building permit is issued BS will ensure that member sized are adequate.
Nothing ever happens but when something does everyone runs for cover "It wasn't me"
If someone gets hurt or killed, is that the risk you want to take.(possible jail time+ you will loose your shirt to the lawyers)
At some point your house will be for sale and purchaser's pre purchase inspector may spot illegal works(as I have many times, what will that do to your asking price?

Also Council Compliance officials (Building Traffic cops)
are doing a roaring business, pinging illegal building/structures, non compliance, etc with fines
Soon Building Data will be huge business for little and big government enforcement.
A Symbiosos between Data/IoT, Capitalism and the law... hth

[quote]Any structural alteration will require a building permit. Before building permit is issued BS will ensure that member sized are adequate.[endquote]

Not in our neck of the woods BE.
A friend of mine who is an arborist changed his his flat roofed double garage to a pitched roof and beforehand went to our local council. The duty planner said as long as none of your neighbours objected he was fine with it and no DA needed.
Another knocked out two internal load bearing walls to create an open plan kitchen/dining/lounge. The other local council said get an engineer to certify the beams to take the roof load and once again - no DA needed as it was internal work.

Stewie

Hi Stewie
I find it hard to believe but then nothing surprises me anymore
The first example you give, was duty planner also a BS, qualified to give advice on structural matters of compliance or was he simply referring to planning matters(as I suspect)
Then what if the new garage pitched roof wasn’t built properly And it collapsed or was blown off and children died?
The second example also does not add up, removing two load bearing walls is a major and just certifying beam sizes(if indeed done) does not deal with possible loss of bracing and possibly undersized footing support, does not ensure that the work has been done properly and there is no insurance for damage or injury.
How can this possibly comply with performance requirements of NCC that requires health, safety and amenity of the occupants?
Excuse my ignorance, I am not familiar with NSW
Cheers Stewie