Browse Forums Renovation + Home Improvement 1 May 11, 2014 2:38 pm My question is whether having an architect involved for the whole process of a large renovation (as opposed to just doing the design) has really saved people more than the extra fees cost, or is that just something architects say? A bit (lot!) of background:- We have just bought a 3 bed Art Deco era fibro Queenslander in inner west Brisbane - very much the worst house on the best street as it has spectacular city views and a NE outlook but is in completely unrenovated condition with an old-fashioned floorplan. It is in a Demolition Control Precinct so knocking it down is not an option, and we will need to retain a traditional style with the facade at least. The site is odd shaped - triangular with the apex at the top of the backyard - and steeply sloping uphill from the street. The house is on piers, so our (eventual) plan is to raise it and build in underneath, add a deck to the front and open up the living areas with glass doors, replace the original single garage with a double carport, put in a plunge pool and decks behind the house and build an extension on the back to contain a new master bedroom and study, with the option of adding a second story to the extension in a few years time so we could potentially move the master suite upstairs to get views. Even aside from the eventual possibility of moving the master suite upstairs above the planned extension, we expect to have to do some parts of the project in stages for budget reasons as initially we have only $300k to perhaps $400k to spend. However our intention is to "masterplan" the whole process with an architect or building designer then get costings and see what we can achieve with our initial budget, leaving the non-essentials (carport, extension, floorplan rejig) for a future time if necessary. We've met with a few building designers and architects, some of whom want to do the design and get the DA through Council then hand over to a builder, and some of whom want to manage the project from start to finish. The architects/designers who recommend continuing their involvement into the construction phase say that having an architect involved throughout construction saves more than the cost of their fees in better oversight of the builders, trouble shooting, negotiation, avoiding mistakes, keeping builders honest etc etc. My dad is a retired bush builder and experienced renovator who has built and renovated dozens of houses (though in his mid-sixties so understandably doesn't want to take on the whole project himself) and could potentially project manage tradies etc. I'm currently on maternity leave about to have our second child so also have flexibility for helping to manage the project if necessary. Sorry for the long post but this issue has me a bit stumped and I'd love to hear people's experiences/opinions. Re: Will an architect save $ on a large renovation? 2May 11, 2014 10:10 pm Short answer no. A competent draftie or building designer is what you need . Someone who has a lot of experience and who listens to what you need. As an ex-builder who draws plans for a living I have had dealings with quite a few architects over the years some very good, some not so good and a lot who leave a lot to be desired. Frequent budget overruns of 30-50% are not uncommon for these guys despite what they initially tell you. This is particularly so from those that want to run the job for a percentage of the total cost. If the job runs over 50%, guess what, they get a slice of that too. All you need is someone to draw the plans and get it through the DA process then a competent builder. Ask to see lots of examples of past jobs from both the designer and builder and talk to their clients. Your Dad is in the perfect position to be the project manager to look after your interests. Edit: By the way I'd love to see some photos of your place. I love Art Deco houses and our new place will have a similar design. Stewie Re: Will an architect save $ on a large renovation? 3May 14, 2014 10:33 am In short the post above suggest the following: Architects have not experience and don't listen what you need. All architects overruns the budgets, and don't tell you form the beginning (they either lie or don't have a clue). I suggest to stop assuming all the architects are the same, and don't know what are doing. We can assume the opposite as well, as building designers, crafty and builders generally don't know what are they doing and go over budget all the times? The quality of drawings and specs they provide are low therefore the project will be average? Well no. I like to think there are many people out there capable of doing the right things, despite these are architects, building designers, draftees and builders. You can save cost if you like despite who you use, at the end of the day if that someone does not listen to you, you are back square to the same problem. I am an Architect, I am proud of what I do, and I belong to a profession which is one of the oldest in the world, so i defend my believes, because I value on what I do, and so my clients. And yes i do follow budgets, times, and work quite well with builders and building designers. Short answer, possible. Re: Will an architect save $ on a large renovation? 4Jun 04, 2014 8:22 am Andrea , I hope you read your clients briefs better than you've read my post. This is what I said Quote: some very good, some not so good and a lot who leave a lot to be desired. Not Quote: All architects overruns the budgets... etc My own experience is that I have built from plans provided by architects that were sadly lacking in detail - dimensions missing, details wrong, inconsistent levels between elevations etc. These from guys who have charged the clients $15-20,000 for the plans. I have also been up on a ladder trying to tie in a new roof to an existing where the architect couldn't match the roof and had fudged the elevations to make all the eaves levels the same. Moving that line up 100mm on paper solves all sorts of problems ( for him ) except for the poor chippy on site ( me ) trying to get it to work. We altered two of the roof planes to a different pitch instead so the eaves were the same level right round the house. Later that day the architect appeared on site and said " "We were wondering how you were going to do that " Hmmm aren't you guys with the degrees and fancy letters after your names supposed to tell me how to do it ? I'd also say that 20% of my clients over the last twelve years have been people that have used architects before and swear never again for some of the reasons listed above. One of them engaged an architect to draw plans for an extension - a basement rumpus room and bedroom+ ensuite underneath a big tiled entertainment area. Their budget they told him was "$250,000 maybe $300,000 tops if they push the mortgage a bit higher ". "No problem" he said. Away he goes , a month later the plans are ready, they pay him $15,000 for his trouble and he lodges the DA with the council which a month later is passed. Then the tenders go out and a few weeks later the quotes start arriving - $700,000, $800,000, $750,000 and finally $825,000. So they phone him up and complain and his exact words were " I thought you could push the mortgage out a bit more " Sure... about three times their budget ! I drew the plans for what they wanted and they engaged a local builder who built it for $275,000. Then there is this gem from here... viewtopic.php?f=53&t=69402 EandM Quote: " We got our architect to go to 1:100 drawings for the tender process. That way, we were told, the quotes would be more accurate and competitive. Well, the quotes were all DOUBLE our budget. If I had my time again, I would write a clause into the architect's contract that says that the tender quotes need to be within our budget - or within 10% - or I will not pay for any of the services rendered. I ended up with amazing plans, but with no way on earth of paying for the build. Rest assured, the architect walked away with his full cut of fees. " And this one here... viewtopic.php?f=1&t=68752 Quote: My Architect did not use a town planner nor did he have a pre admission meeting with our council (both of which I now know after the fact). Now it seem the plans for my home do not meet the SL02 (significant land overlay) of the site and as a result 16 metres by 2 metres of my house needs to disappear. Although the Architect did say that he did not see the SL02 requriements prior to our submission, we are now $20K OUT OF POCKET. I do not believe he deliberately hurt us but rather made a very big mistake and is trying very hard not to have to wear it. What is it about due diligence that these clowns don't understand ? Especially for the money they charge. This here is perhaps one of my favourites though... A person in the eastern suburbs engaged an architect to design their dream home. This was done for a substantial fee and the house was built. Several years later the client sold the house and the new owner changed part of the design including the front facade. The architect then sued the new owner for ruining his "vision". Needless to say he lost the case. Goodness me ! I have lots of other examples if you want or just do a search on these forums. Stewie Re: Will an architect save $ on a large renovation? 5Jun 04, 2014 10:15 pm Possibly you can save but depends who you deal with and what they are going to do exactly: I'd say the most important thing is to know who your dealing with regardless of project size or the maginute of their involvement in the whole project. Understanding must preceed agreement, whenever I take on somebody to do work for me whether it be simply design or be involved throughout the entire project, ask yourself : "Does this person give a damn about my project" If the answer is no, move ahead. You may want to take the services up of a renovation firm, who has a team that will over-see everything from architecture onto the build process. As for your Architects you've talked to, see if you can get any information from previous clients or customers who have had a similar thing done. Antenna Direct Perth www.antennadirect.com.au 0423919037 Get your home NBN Ready Smart Wiring and Structured Cabling in Perth Antenna Installations | TV Wall Mounting | Data Cabling HD Security Camera Systems / CCTV Re: Will an architect save $ on a large renovation? 6Aug 03, 2014 2:42 pm Unfortunately basements are difficult to design, engineer, build and maintain at the best of times (new builds) Renovations can cost 3-5 times more than new builds steer clear of Architects and salesman that dont know what they are doing You need expert advice start with the Engineer/Builder and get quotes Checklist Should cover Geotechnical, Structural, Design visualization & optimization, Data, building compliance, Costs....etc,etc. Getting all that done after DA is like putting the cart in front of the horse HTH Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Will an architect save $ on a large renovation? 7Aug 03, 2014 5:42 pm You may consider looking for a builder who as in house design and drafting, that way there is never a blame game between builder and architect. Most Architects are very good at what they do, the biggest issue I have ever had with them is they sometimes dont understand a .1mm line on a piece of paper does not always work in practice. I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 10926 Your build is relatively simple, I believe your job can be easily done by a good building designer, you really do not need to pay for the architect. Remember, architect's… 3 10985 consider putting in wall WC instead of robe in the same bedroom, then it might be doable to hook up to the existing piping. 4 6628 |