Browse Forums Renovation + Home Improvement 1 Aug 12, 2011 8:58 pm HI folks My last question (about sliding door cavities) has led me to my next question. We have a wall panel at the end of our kitchen bench (the width of the bench) which actually marks the end of our kitchen. This wall used to be the back of the house before it was extended by previous owners. We are considering extending our kitchen, but this panel kind of limits us (to a degree). Not sure if they left it there because it is a 'neat' way to finish the kitchen/kitchen bench or whether it has to be there . How can we tell if this panel of wall can be removed or not?? I know people say to look in the roof cavity - but what are we looking for? Is it easy to tell?? Or do we need to get someone in professionally to tell us - and if so - who? (And how much should I expect to be charged for someone to look at one teeny wall and tell us if it can be knocked down or not?? Given we are in the 'toying with ideas stage', we really don't want to start spending $$ on professional advice yet if we can help it - until we are a bit more certain that we can/will go ahead). I would just like to know that if we can remove it, then we have the option of extending the bench and I can continue toying with those ideas, but if we can't - then not to even bother going down that path and to come up with a plan B idea. HHCIB Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 2Aug 12, 2011 9:03 pm Hello there HHCIB-I just deleted your double thread on this topic. Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 3Aug 12, 2011 9:16 pm Thanks DeeMaree, I actually have to do that all the time (happens to me all the time in this forum for some reason). Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 4Aug 12, 2011 9:47 pm How Hard Can it Be How can we tell if this panel of wall can be removed or not?? I know people say to look in the roof cavity - but what are we looking for? Is it easy to tell?? True, look in the roof cavity. First you need to take some measurements of where your wall in question is, so that when you hop up in the roof cavity you are not second guessing yourself. Then get up in the roof space and get dirt and dusty with a torch, look for the exact spot where the wall underneath is. If it is a supporting wall (eg. a wall that is supporting your roof) you will find timbers going from the top of your wall timbers to the top timbers on the underside of your roof. In which case this wall is supporting your roof. It does not mean you can't remove that wall, it means that BEFORE you remove that wall you have to find some other way of supporting that roof. The second thing you need to determine is your ceiling may need that wall for support. If the ceiling beams are using that wall for support, then removing that wall, may or may not, remove that support. To explain that here in in words for me is a bit difficult, so someone else may like to chime in and explain better. I am better at showing. Good luck Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 5Aug 12, 2011 9:48 pm If you built the house, you should have a set of engineering drawings that make this pretty clear. You could ask for a copy of them from your builder. If it's a used house, you can guess or make an educated guess. Better would be to ask an engineer or former owner for the engineering drawings...I don't know if engineering drawings are on file with council as part of the permit....that's another avenue to consider. my house blog: http://sugarloafdrivebuild.blogspot.com/ Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 6Aug 13, 2011 2:21 pm Thanks eyspy... I can follow what you are saying to a T - thanks for the clear advice. Only thing is now - finding out if it supports the ceiling, like you say. Hopefully someone else can explain or tell me what to look out for. dsiroky - we didn't build. We bought off an owner-builder who we are not on good terms with so they won't be forthcoming and we wouldn't want to ask. Council gave us copies of everything they had on file when we needed info for something else (they were most obliging) - so we may very well have the drawings you are referring to. But what would I be looking at on those drawings?? (I can understand how to check if they are supporting the roof from the instructions eyspy gave me, but I now need to know how to check if it is supporting the ceiling, as such). Thanks again..... most helpful. HHCIB Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 7Aug 13, 2011 4:44 pm I will try to explain if it supports the ceiling (forgive me if it sounds like double dutch) Think of your walls as 'A' 'B' & 'C' 'B' is the middle wall Now look up in your ceiling at 'B' If you have full length timber running from 'A' all the way across 'B' and meeting up with 'C', then chances are that you could remove wall 'B' as walls 'A' and 'C' are taking the load. If the timbers stop at 'B' and then start afresh to go to 'C' then the timber is not continuing along it's path, and therefore wall 'B' is a supporting wall for the ceiling. Make sense ?? Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 8Aug 14, 2011 1:40 pm You could ask a builder to come and quote on the job, he will look up and determine the extent of the work involved and give you an idea of cost. Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 9Aug 14, 2011 4:05 pm eyspy, if B is removed it may be increasing the span between A & C. Member may be undersized to span that far. HHCIB, the best $250 you will spend it get a carpenter over and quiz him on everything you want to know. Seeking information/advise over an internet forum for such issues that requires onsite investigation has the potential to lead you in the wrong direction and the danger of following through on something that is completely wrong. I doubt the plans you have state anything more than compliance with the timber framing code. To move forward contact a man with a ladder, torch, tape measure and nail bag around his waist, he is the one that will have the best answer all you queries and head you in the right direction. good luck with the reno Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 10Aug 14, 2011 7:02 pm architect eyspy, if B is removed it may be increasing the span between A & C. Member may be undersized to span that far. Fully aware of that, thanks for pointing it out to 'How hard can it be'. This is just a guide for that person. Look and see then make a judgment call if you think you need to see a builder. Even if removing 'B' did make a span greater than the timber there can handle, there a easy ways to correct the problem and still remove the wall. Question like this posed require long winded answers that I admit can lead the person astray, but at least it gives them a small guide to investigate further. Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 11Aug 15, 2011 8:24 pm Architect you are very right - we should just get someone in to go over everything. I guess because we are really just tossing around ideas at the moment and trying to get a handle on what is actually 'do-able' before we start spending $$ on paying for visits and quotes etc etc. Such a wealth of knowledge, experience and expertise on here, that I feel confident asking all my questions - BUT - I am wise enough to know that if we did decide to take any actual steps in any direction, we would then seek our own proper advice from professionals. We certainly wouldn't make any major moves (with structural works) soley based on info in a forum. Smaller things - like shelving questions, we might Anyway, just wanted to acknowledge that you are correct and I appreciate your info. Eyspy.... thanks so much for trying to explain. I really do appreciate it. Might be better off if we had a look at our wall (wall B, I presume?) and then maybe explain in here what beams are on top of it or running across it. Just to see if that can shed light. But as Architect pointed out.. we really do need to get someone in to tell us for sure (as we all know). I think (??) we may have gone cold on the idea we had that needed that wall removed anyway. Well, today we have, tomorrow is a new day . Thanks guys. Really appreciate your input and trying to help. At least I can get up in the roof next time and get an idea of what we might be looking for. HHCIB Re: How can you tell if it is a structural wall 12Aug 15, 2011 8:24 pm Architect you are very right - we should just get someone in to go over everything. I guess because we are really just tossing around ideas at the moment and trying to get a handle on what is actually 'do-able' before we start spending $$ on paying for visits and quotes etc etc. Such a wealth of knowledge, experience and expertise on here, that I feel confident asking all my questions - BUT - I am wise enough to know that if we did decide to take any actual steps in any direction, we would then seek our own proper advice from professionals. We certainly wouldn't make any major moves (with structural works) soley based on info in a forum. Smaller things - like shelving questions, we might Anyway, just wanted to acknowledge that you are correct and I appreciate your info. Eyspy.... thanks so much for trying to explain. I really do appreciate it. Might be better off if we had a look at our wall (wall B, I presume?) and then maybe explain in here what beams are on top of it or running across it. Just to see if that can shed light. But as Architect pointed out.. we really do need to get someone in to tell us for sure (as we all know). I think (??) we may have gone cold on the idea we had that needed that wall removed anyway. Well, today we have, tomorrow is a new day . Thanks guys. Really appreciate your input and trying to help. At least I can get up in the roof next time and get an idea of what we might be looking for. HHCIB Assuming you've modelled the TB8, TB10, TB12, TB2 & J1 joists/LVLs there, it appears as per drawing to me. There maybe should be an additional J1 between TB10 and T12 if… 3 31747 interesting situation what happened after builder issued final invoice? did you list as defect or not does the building surveyor have any responsibility? ie. issuing… 13 46794 |