Expertise on keeping large pavers in place driveway

Max23 · Nov 10, 2023 9:12 am

Hi everyone,

Long time reader, first time poster. Hoping to get some expertise on the following:

I have 600 x 600mm concrete pavers on my driveway and I am wanting to lay the right material underneath / around to ensure they don’t move when driven over. I will then install artificial turf around and in between the pavers (50mm gap between each).

I originally purchased Dingo Polymeric Paver Sand from Bunnings but have since read this doesn’t work well (and my 50mm gaps are probably too large).

I was going to use sand cement under and around the pavers, but i believe it will cause an issue when trying to install artificial turf around the pavers as you then can’t “nail in” the pins into the ground next to pavers.

Underneath is bedding sand.

Had considered garden plastic edging but that will cover the sides of pavers but not the in between 50mm gap (and not sure if even strong enough for driving on or if will block the pins I need to nail down for artificial turf).

Would love your suggestions from anyone who is knowledgeable in this space.

Many thanks
James
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Max23 · Nov 13, 2023 7:24 am

Any thoughts on the below? Would be very much appreciated

Max23

Hi everyone,

Long time reader, first time poster. Hoping to get some expertise on the following:

I have 600 x 600mm concrete pavers on my driveway and I am wanting to lay the right material underneath / around to ensure they don’t move when driven over. I will then install artificial turf around and in between the pavers (50mm gap between each).

I originally purchased Dingo Polymeric Paver Sand from Bunnings but have since read this doesn’t work well (and my 50mm gaps are probably too large).

I was going to use sand cement under and around the pavers, but i believe it will cause an issue when trying to install artificial turf around the pavers as you then can’t “nail in” the pins into the ground next to pavers.

Underneath is bedding sand.

Had considered garden plastic edging but that will cover the sides of pavers but not the in between 50mm gap (and not sure if even strong enough for driving on or if will block the pins I need to nail down for artificial turf).

Would love your suggestions from anyone who is knowledgeable in this space.

Many thanks
James
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chippy · Nov 13, 2023 6:24 pm

Max23
I'll start by saying I'm not a landscaper (I'm a carpenter) but I've had a bit of experience with paving.
If you are planning to drive on them and don't want them moving around I'd say you need to actually run concrete under them first and then bed the pavers on to the concrete with a mortar mix.

Basically the pavers will start to see saw as you drive over them if they are just laid on sand. Regular paving that is laid on sand is typically locked together by being hard together and the gaps filled with paving sand and the edges are haunched so everything stays in place as a single unit. With your set up the pavers will move unless they are somehow joined together. You could dig long channels and fill them with a mortar mix and then bed the pavers into that. That would help keep everything in place but obviously a mortar mix isn't as strong as a proper concrete strip footing that then has your pavers bedded in to it.

It might be tempting to try a short cut and just compact the sand and then bed in each paver direct in the sand but I know in a year or two everything will have moved and you'll just be pulling it up and redoing it. If it was only a path then I'd say just bedding each paver would be fine but as a trafficable driveway there really isn't any short cuts.

Max23 · Nov 13, 2023 6:41 pm

Thanks Max, yes understand re concrete underneath (insane cement still suitable from your understanding?).

The challenge then remains as so mailijgnin the turf around and in between the pavers (concrete or hardened sand / cement, I would imagine won’t allow artificial turf to be nailed down like having dirt under the turf would.

chippy · Nov 13, 2023 8:58 pm

Max23

Thanks Max, yes understand re concrete underneath (insane cement still suitable from your understanding?).

The challenge then remains as so mailijgnin the turf around and in between the pavers (concrete or hardened sand / cement, I would imagine won’t allow artificial turf to be nailed down like having dirt under the turf would.

Is the layout in your picture what you are hoping to achieve?

How thick are the pavers and what size? You said they are 600x600 however your picture looks like they are rectangular.

Max23 · Nov 13, 2023 10:23 pm

Hi,

Yes picture is the current driveway and paver layout I’m trying to achieve.

Yes the 2 rows to the left of image are 600x600 square concrete pavers 50mm thick (looks rectangle due to wide angle photo).

chippy

Max23

Thanks Max, yes understand re concrete underneath (insane cement still suitable from your understanding?).

The challenge then remains as so mailijgnin the turf around and in between the pavers (concrete or hardened sand / cement, I would imagine won’t allow artificial turf to be nailed down like having dirt under the turf would.

Is the layout in your picture what you are hoping to achieve?

How thick are the pavers and what size? You said they are 600x600 however your picture looks like they are rectangular.

chippy · Nov 15, 2023 12:03 am

Max23
If you want to do it properly I'd run 600 wide X 100 thick footings the entire length of the driveway area. I'd then bed your pavers on that with maybe 30mm of mortar so they are all straight and run to a string line.
If you clean up all the bedding mortar as you go that will give you a good 70mm of cracker dust under your fake turf. You won't need to pin it in the 50mm gaps but you will be able to pin either side of the pavers as the concrete is only the same width as the pavers.

The old motto, "do it once, do it properly" applies here

Max23 · Nov 15, 2023 7:06 am

Fair call re doing it properly first time round. Was hoping to avoid pouring concrete footings as I’ve never done it before, but guess that’s the proper way of you want to be certain no movement under pavers.

Thanks everyone for the contributions!

chippy

@Max23
If you want to do it properly I'd run 600 wide X 100 thick footings the entire length of the driveway area. I'd then bed your pavers on that with maybe 30mm of mortar so they are all straight and run to a string line.
If you clean up all the bedding mortar as you go that will give you a good 70mm of cracker dust under your fake turf. You won't need to pin it in the 50mm gaps but you will be able to pin either side of the pavers as the concrete is only the same width as the pavers.

The old motto, "do it once, do it properly" applies here

Max23 · Nov 18, 2023 12:02 am

Hi Chippy,

Today I’ve gone and bought road base, manual tamper and concrete mix bags so I can do this properly.

My question here is, a lot of places mention haunching edges as a way to keep pavers in place.

If I was hainching both sides of each paver, do I still need concrete mix underneath each paver (that connects to haunches sides so all connected as one?), is is it sufficient to have the compacted road based, sole bedding sand to level pavers, and haunch edges all the way vertically on driveway ? (Obviously asking this given pavers will have 50mm spacing rather than all butted up against each other).

Thanks again
J

chippy

@Max23
I'll start by saying I'm not a landscaper (I'm a carpenter) but I've had a bit of experience with paving.
If you are planning to drive on them and don't want them moving around I'd say you need to actually run concrete under them first and then bed the pavers on to the concrete with a mortar mix.

Basically the pavers will start to see saw as you drive over them if they are just laid on sand. Regular paving that is laid on sand is typically locked together by being hard together and the gaps filled with paving sand and the edges are haunched so everything stays in place as a single unit. With your set up the pavers will move unless they are somehow joined together. You could dig long channels and fill them with a mortar mix and then bed the pavers into that. That would help keep everything in place but obviously a mortar mix isn't as strong as a proper concrete strip footing that then has your pavers bedded in to it.

It might be tempting to try a short cut and just compact the sand and then bed in each paver direct in the sand but I know in a year or two everything will have moved and you'll just be pulling it up and redoing it. If it was only a path then I'd say just bedding each paver would be fine but as a trafficable driveway there really isn't any short cuts.

chippy · Nov 18, 2023 5:48 pm

Max23
Haunching the edges of paving is particularly important when you are using smaller pavers and it's a way of preventing the entire area from moving. In your situation each paver becomes it's own area because they aren't all locked together.

I don't think you should be putting sand underneath the pavers at all. If you are paving a large area you can compact and then screed the sand levels and lay your pavers. They then lock together and effectively become one continuous unit.
In your situation the car tyre is going to drive off one paver and then land on the next. If there is sand underneath it will slowly compact and push sand towards the middle of the paver then as your tyre moves forward it will compact the bag edge effectively making a see saw motion on each paver. Additionally as you turn the steering it twists each paver.

If you are using road base then mix some cement trough it wet and compact it well. Then bed each paver on a mortar mix rather than on sand and bed make the mortar continuous under all of the pavers so that they are joined.

If you don't do paving correctly and try to skimp on proper techniques it will shift and move and you will end up redoing it. I've seen many failures from inadequate compaction and a lack of preventing twist from turning if the wheels

Max23 · Nov 19, 2023 11:25 pm

Appreciate that Chippy.
I won’t do sand under pavers and will connect all up under pavers, however I was going to do:
1) Roadbase compacted with manual hand tamper
2) Then add concrete (mixed by hand) and lay paver.
3) Ensure wet concrete covers width of pavers ave between the 50mm gaps so all connected as one unit.
4) once dry, lay fake turf around and in between pavers. If can’t nail in turf given concrete set underneath /between pavers then may resort to liquid nails /glue to hold turf down.