Browse Forums Renovation + Home Improvement 1 Mar 17, 2022 10:29 pm Hi, I'm currently at the mercy of a few large variations as our renovation gets underway. We are updating our kitchen, bathroom and laundry in a 1950s brick veneer house, including removing the wall between the kitchen and dining room resulting in a roughly 5600mm span. When we got the quote, I pressed the builder to include a PS for the structural works to remove the wall, as they'd previously stated they wouldn't know what the cost would be until the engineering assessment. They allowed a $2000 PS which I thought was reasonable based on a quote we had from another builder. The variation has come in much higher than the PS at over $7000 (before taking off the original $2000) and includes supply and install of a 450x63 LVL and one 125x75x4 RHS column. The house is on brick piers and the variation includes fixing the walls and timber floor around the column. The beam and column are approx. $1000 from what I can see, so even accounting for the current market and builders margin this still seems to be fairly high. Is this a reasonable price or should I question it? Photo of wall being removed for reference. Column is being installed on the LHS. Thanks! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: Structural works variation 2Mar 18, 2022 8:26 am Hi It's hard to tell without seeing the structural and architecturals and what the builder has included in the $7,000. We have done a couple of these recently and on the surface the number sounds okay. There is generally a lot of messing around removing a wall. Here are some of the things that need to be considered when pricing the removal of a wall: 1. Demoltion, possible electrician fees if there was power in the wall - Say $800 ( 2 carpenters day rate) 2. Bin fees - $1000 3. Propping Hire - $200 4. Possible alterations to the trusses to tie in the new beams & installation of new beam - $1600 ( 2 carpenters day rate for 2 days) 5. Materials, in this case the LVL and steel and any associated brackets and ties - $2500 ( we just spend $1700 on LVL's for a similar sized wall and yours needs steel as well so $800 for the column) 6. Possible floor reinforcement such as a new stump - $500 7. Remediation work such as gyprocking and paint and flooring. $1000, you will need a gyprocker for a day and a painter for a day allow $400 each and $200 in materials It adds up quickly I hope this helps Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Structural works variation 3Mar 18, 2022 9:12 am dylydyly Hi, I'm currently at the mercy of a few large variations as our renovation gets underway. Too late now you should have posted before engaging a builder, Span table, prices are on the internet then all you need is certification, finally, tell the guys onsite no PSs I would have put the material costs at less than $1K, builders hate when clients go on the internet and search costs OT The biggest r!p off is reinforced concrete. yesterday I specified extra top steel ($300 max) and one builder tried to tell these clients it was $5K? Give them inch$ they'll take mile$ (humour) next time itemise and query everything before they start Cheers Chris Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Structural works variation 4Mar 18, 2022 9:59 am StructuralBIMGuy dylydyly Hi, I'm currently at the mercy of a few large variations as our renovation gets underway. Too late now you should have posted before engaging a builder, Span table, prices are on the internet then all you need is certification, finally, tell the guys onsite no PSs I would have put the material costs at less than $1K, builders hate when clients go on the internet and search costs OT The biggest r!p off is reinforced concrete. yesterday I specified extra top steel ($300 max) and one builder tried to tell these clients it was $5K? Give them inch$ they'll take mile$ (humour) next time itemise and query everything before they start Cheers Chris Hi Chris Hope you are well Have a close look at the photo. There is so much remediation work that needs to be done. Its not just buying an LVL, there are electrical wires hanging down in the wall, there is flooring and gyprock remediation needed etc. 450x63 LVL's are around $110/m at the moment in Sydney, but I bet the engineer has specified 2 laminated together, then you have to pay for delivery, nails, brackets and bolts. I also am pretty sure there will be some alterations needed to the trusses to tie everything together, so there will probably be some 90x45 as well. There will be engineers fees to provide a certificate of compliance. You need to dispose of the old wall and prop up the ceiling whilst the beams are installed. The issue is that the builder should never have quoted $2,000 in the first place and set the expectations so low. Enjoy your friday Cheers Simeon Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Structural works variation 5Mar 18, 2022 10:06 am Ashington Homes Hi Chris Hope you are well Have a close look at the photo. There is so much remediation work that needs to be done. Its not just buying an LVL, there are electrical wires hanging down in the wall, there is flooring and gyprock remediation needed etc. 450x63 LVL's are around $110/m at the moment in Sydney, but I bet the engineer has specified 2 laminated together, then you have to pay for delivery, nails, brackets and bolts. I also am pretty sure there will be some alterations needed to the trusses to tie everything together, so there will probably be some 90x45 as well. There will be engineers fees to provide a certificate of compliance. You need to dispose of the old wall and prop up the ceiling whilst the beams are installed. The issue is that the builder should never have quoted $2,000 in the first place and set the expectations so low. Enjoy your friday Cheers Simeon Thank you both for your posts. Demolition, skip and engineers fees were included under the original quote as a separate item. The variation only has 5 items, supply beam, supply column, install column and fix walls, install beam, and fix floor. The engineering drawings only show a single beam, the roof member schedule shows either 450x63 LVL or 200UB18 for the roof beam. The column detail also shows it being installed on the existing footing. Re: Structural works variation 6Mar 18, 2022 10:25 am dylydyly Ashington Homes Hi Chris Hope you are well Have a close look at the photo. There is so much remediation work that needs to be done. Its not just buying an LVL, there are electrical wires hanging down in the wall, there is flooring and gyprock remediation needed etc. 450x63 LVL's are around $110/m at the moment in Sydney, but I bet the engineer has specified 2 laminated together, then you have to pay for delivery, nails, brackets and bolts. I also am pretty sure there will be some alterations needed to the trusses to tie everything together, so there will probably be some 90x45 as well. There will be engineers fees to provide a certificate of compliance. You need to dispose of the old wall and prop up the ceiling whilst the beams are installed. The issue is that the builder should never have quoted $2,000 in the first place and set the expectations so low. Enjoy your friday Cheers Simeon Thank you both for your posts. Demolition, skip and engineers fees were included under the original quote as a separate item. The variation only has 5 items, supply beam, supply column, install column and fix walls, install beam, and fix floor. The engineering drawings only show a single beam, the roof member schedule shows either 450x63 LVL or 200UB18 for the roof beam. The column detail also shows it being installed on the existing footing. Thanks for your response. Then ask for a breakdown of each item. Depending on your contract, if the $2000 was a PS, then you are normally entitled to be given receipts and under the contract we use ( the NSW fair trading one) we have to notify the client to give them the opportunity to watch the work. So check your contract and ask nicely Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. Re: Structural works variation 7Mar 18, 2022 10:45 am It is a $2000 PS for the unforeseen beam and column size is it not, he asked for an accurate price in the first instance? Builders aren't engineers nor should they pretend to give clients engineering estimates. as you can see it becomes the clients problem once they start, as engineering is a soft target for price gouging. LOL, if the builder then says I didn't allow for the patching, nor do we have props? Seriously find another builder Like I said to this builder yesterday, the PS is an upgrade on what should basically already be there ie Footings...Stop trying to recharge the entire Concrete work, while blaming it on the engineering. hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Structural works variation 8Mar 18, 2022 11:58 am StructuralBIMGuy It is a $2000 PS for the unforeseen beam and column size is it not, he asked for an accurate price in the first instance? Builders aren't engineers nor should they pretend to give clients engineering estimates. as you can see it becomes the clients problem once they start, as engineering is a soft target for price gouging. LOL, if the builder then says I didn't allow for the patching, nor do we have props? Seriously find another builder Like I said to this builder yesterday, the PS is an upgrade on what should basically already be there ie Footings...Stop trying to recharge the entire Concrete work, while blaming it on the engineering. hth You make some very good points Chris Architectural Homes & Duplexes - specialising in custom designing homes to your budget Get a Free Onsite Consultation Today or send a PM for information, questions or advice. I work with owner, he/she is my man on the ground and I instruct them when to visit the site and take photos and I have other tools in the bag. 4 15324 Looking for advice on whether this variation in tile colour is acceptable. The large tile on the left was used in my main bathroom renovation 1 year ago. My ensuite… 0 8516 yes it does, you've just not understood it. theres a difference. 4 5387 |