Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Feb 28, 2011 10:35 pm After reading with interest some of the OB stories on here thought it time to start our own little thread. Somewhere to share some tips as well as future tears! (Hopefully not too many of the later though ) As a quick background we purchased a 1930's Mt Lawley property some 18 months ago now and moved in mid October 2010. House was pretty much original except for a "lovely" 1970's lean to addition at the rear. It is totally liveable as it stands but certainly not our dream home (yet). good bones but needs work would be the Sales mans call. The plan is this will be our 20 year family home. So it is a case of do it once and do it right, and to make sure it is done right we are going to OB it. Having recently built a house with a registered builder I am only too aware of the mistakes, shortcuts and issues they have in construction. How many times I pointed out mistakes to be fixed I really wondered what our Site supervisor was doing. Although they built it quickly and were organised there were lots of little things that got through the cracks. As I am pretty meticulous and have the time to put into the project OB'ing seemed the sensible thing to do. I also like to be in control and that is something I found annoying going through a Builder. I have no background in the Building trade but I am pretty handy and can figure out what goes on in most situation so hoping that will see us through. The other thing I have picked up over the last 12 months of preparation is just talking to suppliers and other people building you pick up so many tips and tricks. I have a huge spreadsheet of ideas we have incorporated into our home and whenever we think of something it gets written done. What people love (or hate) in their homes has been a great source of information for me. In January 2010 some 3 months after moving in we started looking for Architects. Some recommended some random. We had meetings with them all and narrowed it down to 3 possibles. We started to speak price and one was out of the race straight away. Their quote was for $50K for Architectual work and drawings. Thanks but no thanks. That left just 2 on our short list. One was a friend of a friend from her Uni days and one was recommended from other friends who were in the process of building their own place at the time. We decided to go with the "Friend of a Friend" A lady who was on Maternity leave at the time and worked for a high end Architect in Perth's Western suburbs. As she was on leave she was keen to take on a project on the side and work on it as time permitted. In hindsite (and to date) That is the best decision we have made. Absolutely thrilled with the work she has put in and how involved she has been with the project. We have discussed and thrown ideas around for nearly 12 months now and I am so glad we have taken time to really think about every little facet of our build. Spent many a night with her over Coffee or wine going through ideas and plans it has been great. Something we never would have been able to achieve with a big architectural company. We have pretty much been her sole client and had 100% of her focus, so very lucky indeed. As ours is a hertigae property we wanted the design to be in keeping with the original house but also modernise and ensure the property could morph and change as needed over the next 20 or so years. What is a bedroom today might be a Parent sitting or lounge room in 10 years time. So we wanted to make sure the house will be versatile to change with our family needs. Sketch stage took us approximately 6 months of pulling and pushing walls till we ended up with what we wanted. We did have some pre conceived ideas of what we "thought" we wanted but after talking through with our architect we are so glad we had professional advice on what works and what doesn't. We took into account Solar principles wherever possible as we don't want this house to be a drain on our pocket just to keep it running. I'd say we are Solar aware but certainly not Solar passive. So it had to be as Solar efficient as possible within the confines of what existed. Living in a Heritage zone we had to keep to the original style (which doesn't always bode well for Solar passive design principles) and we couldn't pick up the house and rotate it to face true North either so there certainly are compromises in that part of the design. Non the less it has been a big part of our thinking to minimise energy use where possible with things like Wall insulation, Under tile insulation as well as bats etc. Anyway I will leave my first post here and pick up again soon. Will post some images of our plans and also some tips for others starting out their planning. Also some fun info on dealing with Councils, and why we should all not take No for an answer!. (Especially if you know you are right and they are wrong) I look forward to sharing our project with you all. Rob https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 2Mar 01, 2011 9:43 am So after 6 months of thinking, thinking, (Architect drawing) and more thinking we came up with a design we were happy with that met our needs, fitting in within the constraints we had with the original dwelling. This is the house as it stands today. These plans are a bit hard to see as they are old and faint but the bit highlighted is getting knocked down and the front 3 rooms stay as they are. The original house was extended with a cheap and nasty lean too in the 70's that although functional we despise it. Certainly built to a budget and not with any design thought in mind. Still has served us well as without that space with 2 small kids it would have been a nightmare to live in. Current dwelling with 1974 extension [/url] And these are our DA plans that were submitted to council - Ahh Council thats another post in itself. Which I will get to soon... New Floorplan. Elevation # 1. Elevation # 2 Upper Floor plan / loft area. As you can see a lot of the house as it stands today will disappear. We will be moving out whilst we undertake the works. I am hoping for 12 months but am thinking 18 months may be more realistic. Time will tell... Now it's off to Council. https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 3Mar 01, 2011 10:47 am Thanks for sharing your build with us. Can't wait to see your progress it will be amazing. You have certainly put a lot of work into the planning of it already so that's a good base to work from. Good luck with it and not too many hiccups along the way I hope. For info on our build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43093 Built the McLaren by Dechellis - slab down 22 Feb - handover 30 Aug 2011 - and gardens finished 9 Dec 2012!! Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 4Mar 02, 2011 1:37 pm Well time to share my experience on dealing with Council. Hopefully others may learn a few things from it. Now I should first state the Council staff I dealt with where all very helpful. They listened to me and were cordial at all times. I think our local council does a very good job overall, however the bureaucracy that exists within is another thing altogether... Basically I have learnt councils don't like to make decisions that may upset someone (Other than the home owner applying to develop their land that is). They work from a framework called the R-Codes which provide them with what is "allowable" building and planning practice. That framework was designed to be a guide and not a set of rules that are black and white. So if you can justify why you wish to do something and it meets the "Performance Criteria" of the R-codes but is outside the basic guideline they should accept it and have the authority to do so. However that is not how it works in real life Luckily we had a friend who works as a planning officer in another council to lean on for advice. All along we designed our house to meet all the allowed rules and asked for a few exemptions in which we met the criteria but where outside the "allowable" design guides on some things such as Length of a Parapet wall being 0.5m longer than allowed, height of a wall 20cms higher than the guidelines say. Anyway plans put in, all good, had preliminary meetings with Planning staff along the way who saw no problems so all good. However our plans landed on the desk of a guy who thought a bit differently to his colleagues. In his view (And they always say that in their letters) Our proposed structure was non compliant and he would not approve it. Modify your plans or you don't get our tick of approval. When you get that letter your heart just sinks. I expected (as most would) these people know the rules inside out, what is allowed and if they say No, they know better than you and I had to change my plans. Luckily with some guidance from our friend we found out that is not the case. I went back to the Council and sat with them. Went through all the relevant documentation with the planner (and his boss) and low and behold Yes they now agreed what we proposed was fine and we could do it as we met all the performance criteria in the R-codes etc etc. Luckily in my case they agreed to meet with me. They don't have to do that and could just stick to their line of Not approved. Resubmit or go away (If they do that to you then look at Option 2 below and SAT as that is your next port of call) In hindsight I am so glad I spent time reading all their own guidelines and policies. In the end we had to point out how certain things were allowed in their own policy document! Crazy stuff and these people call themselves professionals. How they could in one sentence say outright No not allowed then 2 weeks later so yeah that's OK was beyond me, but anyway we got our approval (So we thought) So that was stage 1 When the approval came there was a little Condition attached in the fine print. We could build our house but had to "Donate" (I use that word as their was no reason to ask for this money) $3800 to Council to allow us to have access to a laneway that runs behind our property. (An old lane from the Horse and Cart days which was bitumenised years ago and now provides access to the rear of the property for Residents)Their reasoning was they paid to bitumenise the old path and turn it into a lane 30 years ago, so I had to pay it back to them at todays rate for my share of the road. It was Council policy and that was that! They said if you want a Building licence you have to pay or we wont issue a licence to you - Blackmail really. Anyway I went through all their documentation again and found that there own documentation and policies on this "Fee" said I did not have to pay it. I found an old letter to residents saying I didnt have to pay. I wrote letters to staff and councillors stating all this but they said sorry cant change our minds it's our policy those letters "Dont count" Pay or no licence In the end I had to take them to SAT. That's the State tribunal for hearing disputes. I knew I was right, they legally were not allowed to demand this payment but would not change their mind. So I paid SAT $350 fee to have it heard. Took in all my documents and findings. Presented to the Judge who told Council Remove this fee it is not legal. They then to the Judge said - "Yes we no its not legal, but our policy has not been updated for 5 years so we as planning officers have to follow what our policy says and can not deviate from that" How is that for crazy? Council has known for 5 years that they legally can not slug residents this fee but continue to do it. Just ** in my book. Most people are keen to start building ASAP and would just pay up (My neighbour did) So how much they stole from people, I don't know but it's just wrong. Morally and legally wrong. So lesson to everyone. Don't take No from Council, you have rights to appeal and if you can show justifiable reason to do something there is no way they can stop you. Read the R-codes and read Councils own policies in details. So you can justify what you are trying to achieve. Many of those enforcing these policies don't know the ins and outs themselves and if it doesnt fit in the box perfectly on what the "think" is allowed they just say No as it's easier. My theory is they take the easy option as they don't want to be sued down the track by making a wrong decision. If people like me take them to SAT then the Judge orders them to change their decision it's then not their responsibility as the Judge made the tough decision not them. So in the end it cost me a lot of my time and $350 to save $3800 Was it worth it? Maybe not for the time I spent but when you know you are right you have to stand up for yourself. Plus it was fun... https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 5Mar 02, 2011 2:01 pm Good on you and thanks for sharing. Bloody councils are as bad as bloody builders!! Hope you don't have any more hurdles on your path to saving the "old girl". For info on our build: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=43093 Built the McLaren by Dechellis - slab down 22 Feb - handover 30 Aug 2011 - and gardens finished 9 Dec 2012!! Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 6Mar 02, 2011 2:37 pm Best of luck with it! Councils are such a hassle. Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 7Mar 02, 2011 6:36 pm Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 8Mar 02, 2011 6:38 pm wow, lOVE IT!!! well done, you and the architect have done an amazing job. love the pantry and the pool...yay! Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 9Mar 02, 2011 8:33 pm hi rob Great to see another council who excels! Mine is a complicated tale too, one which I wouldn't want to bore anyone with - All i say is too many indians, not enough chiefs! I think you'll get that! Your plan looks amazing - talk about wow factor! I was chatting to my neighbour today (in the country area where I'm developing a block atm) and he told me about a local who had put in an application to develop/build on their property (40 acres) and council sat on the plans for 18months. Finally, the owner (who was a cop) went to council in person (in uniform) and asked what was going on. His plans were approved within a week. I think there is a lesson here for people like us dealing with councils!! A A thankful person is a happy person. [/color]My hobby design blog: http://aviewondesign.blogspot.com/ Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 10Mar 03, 2011 12:59 am great plans wish you all the best on your build. theres a very good reason why people dont fight councils because they get nasty if proven wrong they have lots of little rules that can make your life hell i hope your victory dosnt cost you in the end. sorry to be a pesimist but i know a guy who fought council and won lets just say they werent happy and they made his build a nightmare he told us to work with them (which we did) his victory was very short lived. stay safe happy building Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 11Mar 03, 2011 9:19 am Quote: Finally, the owner (who was a cop) went to council in person (in uniform) and asked what was going on. His plans were approved within a week. I think there is a lesson here for people like us dealing with councils!! Hmmm I like that. Maybe I should have got the wife to Dress up in a Nurse Uniform to get some attention! (I hope she doesn't read that) But on a serious note as to Councils holding a grudge, I guess that could happen but as my Dad always taught me, if you are right you have to stand up for yourself. Be it the Council, Police or whoever - They mostly do a good job but they certainly aren't a law unto themselves (Thankfully!) In our case the guys we dealt with where good. They admitted it was wrong but the way Council works they have to enforce the policy no matter what as that is what is written. As Cops say "We dont make the laws we are just here to enforce them" https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 12Mar 05, 2011 2:48 pm Well every OB needs good tools - Today got a new one to add to the collection so I can feel like a real Tradie! My own U beaut Ute! Ex courier driver so 450000kkms on the clock but runs ok and has Gas also. I dont think I will do more than 10000kms in the whole project but handy to have for $2400 Hopefully she sees me through the next year or 2 https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 13Mar 20, 2011 1:58 pm My head is spinning at the moment Engineering specs have come in ready for council and the need for Special steel beams here and columns there has me confused. I just hope the Steel guys can make sense of it all and supply the right stuff. Bricks, Timber etc I am fine with but all these special structural needs and specs is doing my head in. Oh the fun of it all, head first into a shallow pond! https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 14Mar 20, 2011 9:46 pm Hi Rob, who are you using for your steel? Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 15Mar 21, 2011 12:35 pm Quote: Hi Rob, who are you using for your steel? Just looking to send to get quoted now. G & G Steel is one I have been told to try. Do you have any others worth contacting? Cheers https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 16Mar 21, 2011 10:31 pm National lintels. Good price and service. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 17Mar 21, 2011 11:59 pm I have got a great big c channel 6m of it you can have ... sitting at my block doing nowt. Also three door frames going begging!!!!!!! Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 18Mar 23, 2011 9:51 am Thanks for that Chippy. And thanks for offer of Doors and C beam K but I suspect you used Steel framed doors (We will be installing timber) to match the rest of the house. https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 19Mar 31, 2011 6:05 pm Well time for a little update again Planning and preparation continues (Hopefully all this planning will save me some headaches down the track) I now have my piece of Paper from the Builders Rego Board so I can officially call myself an "Owner Builder". Building and Engineering plans submitted to council this week so hoping that all goes off without a hitch (Unlike our DA plans). In the background we have been busy organising things we need for our build. I am in the middle of importing a container full of goods from the UK for our fitout. It's a long way till we need them but will take a while to get here and it's taken me about 4 months to get to the point of orders in and goods waiting for delivery. Keen to get it done and dusted so I dont need to worry about it later and make decisions on the run. We are bringing in - All our major built in Electrical appliances inc Fridge, Oven, Steam Oven, Freezer, Induction Cooktop, Dishwasher and Washing machine. All items are locally available in Oz but savings overseas of approx 50% as compared to here. Also bringing in our Lounge Suite (Natuzzi) and savings here of over 60% compared to Oz prices, which is massive. I get Natuzzi quality for the price of Freedom so very happy with that. All our Plumbing items including - Toilet Suites, Tapware, Showerheads, Kitchen Sink, Laundry sink and even Bathroom fittings like Towel rails etc. Savings of approx 50% here. (And yes all Water rated and Oz approved) Lastly some Velux Rooflights as well which are about 40% cheaper over there than here. So eagerly watching the Australian Dollar rates but as of late it is working in my favour. It will take about 2- 3 months for the container to arrive then I have the fun of finding a place to keep it all till it's needed. We have stuck to items that are already available in Oz in case of service / repairs down the track but all in all this will save me somewhere between $30 - $35K compared to buying locally so a very handy saving there. Process has been very easy. Few emails, phone calls and the like but really not much more organising than I would have had to do in Oz. UK use the same Plumbing fittings as us (Unlike the USA) and electrical is all the same voltage so works out fairly easy. There are some Import costs such as Freight, Brokers fees, GST on import etc I need to pay but have factored those in to my Calculations so fingers crossed it all arrives in one piece and ready to go. Now looking forward to the day I can get the Big hammer out and smash something down. https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Modernising an Old Girl - Our OB renovation 20Mar 31, 2011 10:38 pm Have you thought of light fittings? I went into Alti lighting in Claremont and they were about three times the price of germany for the SAME product. I asked them if anything needed to be done to make them suitable for Oz and they said no! My kitchen company is bringing in my intergrated fridge for me. k Is it possible to render an old corrugated iron shed.I have heard that it can be done if it is covered with chicken wire first.Not sure of the ratio of the render mix and… 0 4896 Thanks Chippy,I do have one that I levered out. I'll try to find a brand name on the windows then do some searching. Here is a photo where you can see how worn they are. 2 7953 Hi I bought an old cupboard that is in desperate need of some TLC. I was seeking some advice as to the best product to use to give it an oil but also bring it to life a… 0 3439 |