Am I crazy? OB near Port Macquarie

powerd · Feb 25, 2018 5:13 pm

Hi everyone. I have been a lurker here for a while. I am amazed by the challenges that OBs here take on, particularly with difficult sites in lodistant locations and complex builds. I take my hat off to you all and admire your determination and skills.

After looking at many forums, following several builds on here, watching Grand Designs and many home reno shows, trawling through heaps of magazines, visting copious numbers of display house and talking to many people, I knew the type of house I wanted. I found a wonderful virtually level 6000 sq m block near Laurieton, south of Port Macquarie. It is flat, surrounded on two sides by bushland and fully serviced, even has an 80m bitumen drive and the services are piped the length of it. it is on the edge of a housing estate, just 700m from Woolies and other shops, but feels like it is in the country. A great find at a good price.

So, disillusioned with the project home builders' quality, unable to afford the cost of a high quality builder to do the house I really wanted and take advantage of my beautiful location, I made a momentous decision. Why not build it myself? I mean, actually take on the building work myself, using subbies only where I was required to by law, or it was obviously better to used skilled and equipped people? After all, what could go wrong?

So I talked to family, friends, tradies I knew, in fact anyone who would listen. Responses varied from "You're crazy!", "At your age?" etc etc to, "Go for it! You'll learn heaps", "It will be hard, incredibly hard at times, but it'll be the biggest achievement of your life!", "I'm jealous -but I wouldn't have the courage", and the one I liked most "When you sit on your verandah, beer in hand and admire the view and your finished home, you'll be truly proud and say 'It was worth all the exhaustion, the hassles and the cuts and bruises.'"

So here I am. Now 62 years of age, healthy, a bit unfit and overweight, taking on probably the biggest challenge of my life. Am I crazy? Perhaps I am, but what's life without a challenge?

More to come.........

Searching4 knowledge · Feb 25, 2018 9:43 pm

powerd

Hi everyone. I have been a lurker here for a while. I am amazed by the challenges that OBs here take on, particularly with difficult sites in lodistant locations and complex builds. I take my hat off to you all and admire your determination and skills.

After looking at many forums, following several builds on here, watching Grand Designs and many home reno shows, trawling through heaps of magazines, visting copious numbers of display house and talking to many people, I knew the type of house I wanted. I found a wonderful virtually level 6000 sq m block near Laurieton, south of Port Macquarie. It is flat, surrounded on two sides by bushland and fully serviced, even has an 80m bitumen drive and the services are piped the length of it. it is on the edge of a housing estate, just 700m from Woolies and other shops, but feels like it is in the country. A great find at a good price.

So, disillusioned with the project home builders' quality, unable to afford the cost of a high quality builder to do the house I really wanted and take advantage of my beautiful location, I made a momentous decision. Why not build it myself? I mean, actually take on the building work myself, using subbies only where I was required to by law, or it was obviously better to used skilled and equipped people? After all, what could go wrong?

So I talked to family, friends, tradies I knew, in fact anyone who would listen. Responses varied from "You're crazy!", "At your age?" etc etc to, "Go for it! You'll learn heaps", "It will be hard, incredibly hard at times, but it'll be the biggest achievement of your life!", "I'm jealous -but I wouldn't have the courage", and the one I liked most "When you sit on your verandah, beer in hand and admire the view and your finished home, you'll be truly proud and say 'It was worth all the exhaustion, the hassles and the cuts and bruises.'"

So here I am. Now 62 years of age, healthy, a bit unfit and overweight, taking on probably the biggest challenge of my life. Am I crazy? Perhaps I am, but what's life without a challenge?

More to come.........

I'm going to do just about the same here in Sydney. I'm 63 and faced the same sort reactions...... does everyone else know something I don't

.
I'm thinking that having a timeline to work to is the most important key to success as an owner builder. Good luck and I will be following your progress for sure. Bruce

powerd · Feb 26, 2018 8:38 pm

Thanks Bruce. And good luck to you too. I really think that you need a challenge to make you grow, learn and get out of bed each day. I am sure there will be times I will say "Gosh, what on earth have I done?" But equally, there will be times when I stand back and say, "Wow, I didn't know I could build a wall!"

I am paying people to do some things a younger, stronger and braver (or more foolish!)person might tackle themselves eg the slab . Also, the Versiclad roof panels - the roofer with a crane will have them on in a day, so it is efficient. But there are so many other things I can and will do, and I have plenty of time to devote to it.

I am building a large shed first, so I can get my things out of storage and access tools, power and water. I have been living in my camper trailer (on the block or traveling) since August 2016. So when I build a bathroom in the shed and set up my bed etc, it will seem like luxury!

I just received my DA approval a few days ago, and have ordered the shed. Now I can start on preparatory work and seeking quotes, awaiting the construction certificate.

It has taken 11mths to get to this stage but I am now getting excited again at the prospect of actually starting the build.

I'll put up the plans to show you the task ahead tomorrow.

SteveMc · Feb 26, 2018 9:25 pm

Joining in to watch the show. Looking forward to seeing the site and plans powerD!

Searching4 knowledge · Feb 26, 2018 9:42 pm

powerd

Thanks Bruce. And good luck to you too. I really think that you need a challenge to make you grow, learn and get out of bed each day. I am sure there will be times I will say "Gosh, what on earth have I done?" But equally, there will be times when I stand back and say, "Wow, I didn't know I could build a wall!"

I am paying people to do some things a younger, stronger and braver (or more foolish!)person might tackle themselves eg the slab . Also, the Versiclad roof panels - the roofer with a crane will have them on in a day, so it is efficient. But there are so many other things I can and will do, and I have plenty of time to devote to it.

I am building a large shed first, so I can get my things out of storage and access tools, power and water. I have been living in my camper trailer (on the block or traveling) since August 2016. So when I build a bathroom in the shed and set up my bed etc, it will seem like luxury!

I just received my DA approval a few days ago, and have ordered the shed. Now I can start on preparatory work and seeking quotes, awaiting the construction certificate.

It has taken 11mths to get to this stage but I am now getting excited again at the prospect of actually starting the build.

I'll put up the plans to show you the task ahead tomorrow.

Looking forward to seeing the plans

powerd · Feb 27, 2018 2:16 pm

So, a bit about me. I am not:

a tradie - I'm a former public servant, managment consultant and have ome project managment background as well, not directly related to building, houses
an experienced builder - while I have done two large house extensions, my role was to plan them then engage a builder to do the work. WHile I took a fair bit interest in it, I wasn't hands on.
a brilliant home handyman - yes, I will tackle most of the jobs around the house, I am not brilliantly gifted at it.

I am retired (or semi-retired,- unless someone offers enough money to tempt me to take another (very lucrative) contract. So I have plenty of time.

I have dreamt and thought of the idea of building my own home for years, read heaps of stuff about it, drawn plans and researched. As a youngster, I wanted be an architect, I even have the beard and a Euro car! I had certain ideas about what I wanted. The house should be open, spacious, airy, hopefully not needing heating or cooling so I could keep it open and move inside and out freely. It should be easy to maintain, And given my lack of skills and experience it need to be a place that was easy to build.

Originally, I was looking at doing the walls and roof in SIPs eg Bondor. The attraction was a quick and simple build, finished panels not needing an additional wall covering, high insulation factor and minimal air movement. However, I ran into problems with engineering eg it seems they are not engineered for wall heights above 3m, and some other issues with compliance as well. Then, given the design I had come up with, working with my designer, I found there were issues with the span I wanted to cover in my living area. I could have one brand with very long spans, but then that raised significant cost issues for transport - it would need an escorted load and special truck. From Sydney to Port Macquarie (oh, the things I am learning!). So the compromise is shorter panels and a supporting beam in the centre, plus extending the roof over the alfresco with a conventional, matching, butt-jointed roofing system.

Then there were significant bushfire risk issues and dealing with a BAL 29 rating. Again, a huge learning process. The original building envelope in the subdivision was way too small, based on an earlier assessment and rather notional plotting. So int he DA I was seeking to build outside that envelope and establish a larger build area, so I could fit a separate Granny Flat and provide for possible future building, or maybe even subdivision of the large block.

All that seems like a long path to get here, and it was. But those of you who have been through it will know that you have to research, work with speciailists, shell out money for reports and tests, and just learn, learn learn. And just focus on solving the problems as they arise. I actually found the Council planning officers very helpful and always willing to guide me, provide advice and refer me to appropriate sources.

My designer even joked after I finish I could set myself up as a planning consultant. Not likely, I am going to sit on the verandah and drink beer while admiring the view!

Feel free to ask any questions - in some cases, I might even have a sensible answer!

powerd · Feb 27, 2018 2:54 pm

OK, so now I am going to try to post the plans.

Firstly the block plan The block is 6000sq m. I am building a 10.5mx 12m shed first (I am a Jaguar nut and my two need considerable work), so I need room for my car work, plus the motorbike, camper, car and 4WD etc, plus other hobbies.

Next I am building a 60sq m (internal) Granny Flat under local council rules, not NSW state rules. I will then live in this while building the house. Eventually I will rent it out.

The house is about 250sq m, a custom contemporary design. More details on these in my next post.

Block plan:

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House plan:

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Granny flat:

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Feel free to comment. Questions cheerfully, if not intelligently, answered.....

Cheers
powerd

powerd · Feb 27, 2018 7:11 pm

And here is a view of the house:

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And...

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SteveMc · Feb 27, 2018 10:12 pm

The main development Looks great! I really like the off-angle roof and post with the alfresco and entry detail. The floorplan and windows also look well thought out.
What's the block look like now? I can't quite get my head around the 10x scale of a typical suburban block

powerd · Feb 28, 2018 8:25 am

Thanks for your comments SteveMc. The previous version of the house looked a bit dull, so that's why the designer came up with the idea of the slanted posts and the porch roof. The lifted central pod roof was my idea to break up a large roof expanse. It also provides an opportunity to hide the external motor of the Schweigen rangehood on the r/h vertical wall of that pod.

I will post some pics of the block today.

powerd · Feb 28, 2018 9:15 am

Some block pics:

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From the road, before driveway was bitumenised by the developer. He likes to do things thoroughly.Area to left has now largely been filled and levelled to building envelope level.House will be approximately where the largest of the three lumps of dirt is at the rear, the flat just behind the lump closest to the camera. The block curves around to the right up a slope, which will be scappoped out to fit the garage, which which be straight ahead of the driveway on an angle. There are now several new houses after the last fence on the right - they face away from me to the next street. Woolies, the servo and a small group of shops is about 600m from the camera up the road to the left.

Although blocks on this estate are larger than the current trend (750 to 1000 sq m), mine is the only one much larger. But I only paid $10k more than the next dearest one, and mine has a much better aspect plus space for everything I want. The bushland is a nature corridor to Queems Lake, about 500m away, as well as watercourse off North Brother mountain. So it will never be developed.

The view over bushland to North Brother:
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This is from roughly where the garage will be and the house will be in front of this, with the Al Fresco facing the mountain. It is not the best solar facing, which would be to the left, but the view to me is the best best feature of the block so it is a compromise. The climate here is so temperate, though, that it is less of an issue. Winters are really mild (shorts and t-shirts are worn almost every day of the year, with perhaps a zipup top carried in case, long trousers usually only worn at night in winter or for "occasions". A huge change from Canberra, where I lived for many years (guess why I came here?).

BTW, the block has had a lot of levelling and geotech work done by the developer, at significant expense - he was considering building on it for himself. This photo was prior to registration, and a change in the statewide coefficient for calculation of the 100 year flood level caused the council to reassess the level for the build area n- over 650 sq m in size. The developer then added a further 30cm. Soil tests sho=wed thes was properly compacted and an M slab with no special requirements (eg piers, wider footings, tougher grade concrete) can be used. This as saved me a large amount of money.

One half of the granny flat, though since we moved it further away from the house for privacy, is on a section of possibly uncontrolled fill. So we need to get another soil test done, but it can't happen until March 9, so that is delaying submission of the engineering docs for the Construction Certificate. So I can't even get final quotes for the slabs etc yet, and get under way for probably 608 weeks.

The big problem for me is going to be getting tradies. The building trade here is going gangbusters, and tradies seem to hate owner builders. I worry that I won't be able to get people interested in working for me, despite the fact I am organised and have the cash, and it is an easy site.

Any tips on how to find tradies who are happy to work with owner builders - and not overcharge?

StructuralBIMGuy · Feb 28, 2018 10:45 am

powerd

The big problem for me is going to be getting tradies. The building trade here is going gangbusters, and tradies seem to hate owner builders. I worry that I won't be able to get people interested in working for me, despite the fact I am organised and have the cash, and it is an easy site.

Any tips on how to find tradies who are happy to work with owner builders - and not overcharge?

Yep, that's the problem with trade shortages in a boom market = Ridiculously high prices, encouraging shortcuts, non-compliance,poor workmanship, etc,etc
That might be your spin on it but this is how tradies will see it.
1. Fancy Architectural BIM rendered drawings, where the clients (OBs) pay heaps to the designer for images (who in turn reality don't know how to build it) trying to push them down on a $/m2 rate
2. Tradies aren't interested in Fixing up designers mistake on site during construction, lol it makes no difference how realistic the shadowing looks on planning documents.. Do you have anything else to put up, ie data, quants, budget$?
3. Hmm. Organised, I don't thinks so?, unless you have full production Bim engineering & Construction drawings Certified
4.You will soon run out of cash when you hit difficulties on site and unscrupulous contractors come after you with post contract variations increases
5. Use 3 to convince them you are not a difficult build
Also You might want to consider limiting their time (your const) on site with prefab components..just a thought

powerd · Feb 28, 2018 9:11 pm

StructuralBIMGuy. Thanks for your comments. I will respond as best I can.

1. My designer, after 20 years in the business a seems to be well aware of how to construct this design, quite interested in fact. He was recommended by local builders, trades and the council. He was happy to work through the design and use of lightweight, standardised (eg windows) build products with me, including simplifying the design to make the build process easier, and dealing with some difficult BAL issues.. It is a straightforward slab, electrical wiring and connections are easy and standard plumbing. Nothing difficult in my design at all, except maybe for some electricians who can't be bothered working out how to chase cabling through the Versiclad SIP roof panel - it isn't hard. I hope to use one who has done it before.
2. Not sure why tradies would have to work out designers mistakes We've worked through all parts and I really can't see what the problem is. I am assembling most of the structure. Frames built by a framing company on a production system, from CAD based on engineering docs. If I want to make changes, which I won't (been through two major extensions which more much more complex, made very few but done easily) then I will have to do it myself in almost all cases. I am responsible for quantities and budget as I am purchasing most of the products, no probs with that. As for budget, well, I don't really have one as I know it will be blown anyway!! Actually I do have a sort of budget, and will track it carefully, but it isn't critical. I am building the house I want. But I am experienced at major procurement, and in negotiating contracts and prices.
3. I refer you to my post above. These plans are being done at the moment but are held up awaiting an extra soil test. I am an experienced project manager on large scale projects. Schedules and cost to be tracked in MS Project. I will be on site working every day.
4. How do you know I will run out of cash? Been peeking in my bank account?

Not an issue. If there are any variations they will be agreed, recorded and paid for. If not agreed, not paid. Been there, done that.
5. Agreed. I will try to convince the tradies I need to use that it will be an easy build, show them why and they will be paid immediately on successful completion and sign-off. Hopefully that will help.

As for prefab, agree with you. As mentioned earlier, I wanted to use SIPs for the walls and roof but unable to. The frames are pre-built, the roof is large Versiclad SIPs which will be craned onto the flat and house by a roofer experienced in this (only take a day each), rest of structure I am doing in lightweight panelling with experienced friends. Only additional tradies required are for plumbing, electrical and plastering (they're much better and faster than me). Also have access to retired tradies for advice, and no doubt critical comment!

Cheers
powerd

StructuralBIMGuy · Mar 01, 2018 8:28 am

Good to hear that you are organised
OT, From my experience Modelling a project in a 3D Architectural Software program is not the same as building it tho architects will tell you differently. In reality.under the shadow renderings (LOL, that don't mean anything because planners are more concerned with where the shadow is cast on adjoining (no?) buildings), there are Construction & Engineering details, while on site during construction their may be at least 3 alternatives that may require certification, which relates to availability, time, cost etc,etc
BTW, I am looking forward to seeing more than architectural renderings from a Construction Project Manager :wink:

what you put up also helps others..

powerd · Mar 01, 2018 5:48 pm

SBG - not quite sure what your points are here. The renderings with associated documents submitted are part of the NATHERS assessment (done by an energy rating consultancy) and BASIX to achieve a minimum required standard. The house as built will easily exceed those. THe engineering plans when completed and approved will provide the details to the level required by the slab builder, framing company, roofer,sparky and plumber. The sparky and plumber will do their own designs with me taking a lead role as I know what I want and need. None of these tasks are difficult and none requires any complex onsite decisions, The rest is up to me and, as it has been carefully designed to be a simple build. I would be very surprised, amazed even, if the few subbies I am using, would find this at all unusua or remotely challenging. If they do, I need better subbies. The use of lightweight materials and the design makes the engineering quite simple.

If I have missed something, can you please point out specifically what those challenge are in the plans?

powerd · Mar 01, 2018 5:52 pm

BTW, I am the Constuction Project Manager, Owner Builder, Quantity Surveyor, builder and labourer (with experienced friends), payer and resident. And I am fussy, committed and crazy enough to take this on and achieve a great outcome. I love a challenge.

Plenty of people on here have done the same, achieved great results, and inspired me to leap in.

StructuralBIMGuy · Mar 01, 2018 7:29 pm

The renderings are pretty much worthless as far as REAL energy ratings go, tho it looks impressive to the uninformed
What nathers doesn't do is air flow (physical fluid and heat transfers combined)..so you literally can open a window and watch the energy calculations Fly out the door.. OT..The only true accurate simulations are Multiphysics CFD->no shadows mate
I explain this to energy consultants all the time. hth
Looking Fwd to seeing your images, quants, costs & data that you will hopefully share on your 2 year build journey and I will share my simulations, data and proofs these may help you.

powerd · Mar 01, 2018 8:52 pm

Will happily share when available.

BTW, it is a temperate climate here, I am not trying to build to a particular rating but the NATHERS assessment was purely to get it approved. I will be installing/fixing to ensure that it is much better insultated than required (in a way most builders don't) and this is unusual for this area. Anyway, cross ventilation and ground connection is more imprtant in this temperate, sometimes more humid, climate which rarely gets cold, and not that hot either. I have used a wide range of sources including CSIRO's work etc to build for this climate and site, but in a flexible, non-star chasing way.

As I am retired, I can approach this in an entirely different way to someone who has a srtict budget, a time limit, and banks involved. Or much differently to a typical building business, which builds down to a tight price and low quality..

StructuralBIMGuy · Mar 01, 2018 10:07 pm

Thanks, when you have the info please post your soil classification & wind rating? ,
BTW it's possible to use a standard cooker cutter approach for achieving the minimum ratings with glazing & Insulation and save $600 on the energy report. (call me thifty...for others you can buy a lot of extra insulation for $600 if you are on a tight budget)

powerd · Mar 02, 2018 10:55 am

I am now starting the process of prepping for the actual build. Here's what I am working on:

Gettting my OB licence, hopefully today. In NSW at least, you must have an approved DA before you can comply. And the Certificate of Attainment for the Owner Builder's course. You have to complete the White Card Course (WHS course) and have the Certificate for that the complete the OB course - most providers deliver them together, sequentially. Or relevant skills/experience - eg related trade qualification and experience. These course can be done online quite cheaply - mine was $185 and I completed it easily in two stints of aabout 2-3 hours each. With no pre-study. As a former owner of a training business and experienced provider of nationally recognised training, IMHO the course quality from the point of view of Adult Learning based outcomes was crap. But it is really intended to get anyone across the line and just tick the boxes. Mind you, the downloadable course manual provided at the end is quite useful including various guidance, rules, sample docs (eg RFQs, Completion Certificates - which I will adapt and improve) and more.
Develop my own RFQ with relevant details and assemble the appropriate docs for guidance of contractors.
Continue organisation of electrical, water and ph/internet connection to the property. Essential Energy is the poles and wires provider here, and have to connect the property and assign an NMI number. There is a connection to the front of the block. But I have concluded it will be easier to simply select an electricity seller (eg Origin) and get them to do the NMI request. Down the track when I have electricity connected to the buildings, I will install solar power and select the best provider. My electricity usage until then will be minimal anyway. Isn't privatisation wonderful - more complex and time consuming for the customer, dearer and more stage points to go wrong. Plus no annual returns to State Revenue. No wonder I have Origin shares, quite happily I must say! Dividends will offset power bills until I get the solar system.
Continue the battle for getting NBN down the track. At the end of Round 1, it is NBN 1, me NIL. Less said about this topic the better as I will only get grumpy!!.
Dig a hole at the top of my driveway where the water, power and electrical piping have already been laid (thanks to my very thorough developer Ken Dodds, who did far more prep on this block than is required) and check if pull cables or actual ph/power leads) have been installed, so I can advise sparky/plumber for quoting.
Start work on a proper project plan and integrate my existing spreadsheets and bring up to date costs etc. Mind you, I won't be going over the top with the plan etc, but I do need to track costs and apportion them accurately to the flat, as it will be rented out later and deductions claimed. Plus there will be a future CGT liability on sale or inheritance.
Buy some beer, to relax with after all this work!

Cheers
powerd