You are right Doozer, I should not be talking about something I am not familiar with.
Out of interest then if we have engineered solution "house slab" would not engineer be required to inspect and provide a certificate of inspection?
Concrete slab non conforming
Page 2 of 2
Nope - here it's up to the Owner Builder.
https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/publications/becoming-owner-builder
Supervision of building work
As an owner-builder you have control over the building project and you are legally responsible for the entire project from start to finish and for at least six years after. Furthermore, you will be liable if the building work does not comply with all building standards and safety regulations.
Owner-builders are responsible for the supervision of the building work and may choose to:
Please note: Contracting out any of the work does not lessen an owner-builder’s responsibility.
Your responsibilities
Owner-builders take on many of the responsibilities of a registered builder, including:
https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/publications/becoming-owner-builder
Supervision of building work
As an owner-builder you have control over the building project and you are legally responsible for the entire project from start to finish and for at least six years after. Furthermore, you will be liable if the building work does not comply with all building standards and safety regulations.
Owner-builders are responsible for the supervision of the building work and may choose to:
- undertake all or part of the building work themselves, except where licensed tradespersons are required by law, such as electricians and plumbers;
- contract out all or part of the building work to a registered builder and/or tradespersons; or
- engage a registered builder to oversee part or all of the work.
Please note: Contracting out any of the work does not lessen an owner-builder’s responsibility.
Your responsibilities
Owner-builders take on many of the responsibilities of a registered builder, including:
- the standard of the building work and structural soundness of the building for at least six years after the building is built; and
- complying with all building standards including the Building Code of Australia, safety regulations under the Occupational Safety & Health Act 1984 and being aware of insurance obligations.
What stupidity, allow a slab to look at home in adriano zumbos cake shop.
False economy to not get knowledge on your side, be it a building inspector and or engineer, if someone in the building game with continuity and knowledge had dealt with the grano, I reckon a different result would be achieved, unfortunately this has led to Russian roulette, and it's way too risky to continue taking such risks.
False economy to not get knowledge on your side, be it a building inspector and or engineer, if someone in the building game with continuity and knowledge had dealt with the grano, I reckon a different result would be achieved, unfortunately this has led to Russian roulette, and it's way too risky to continue taking such risks.
It's hard to find a good tradie.
From my short experience so far:-
The other tradies always recommend their mates- whether they are good or not.
The OB's i have found so far recommend someone because they were nice- but often have no idea whether it was a good job or not.
(not trying to offend anyone there)
This grano came highly recommended by another OB- couldn't say enough good stuff about him- but it wasn't for his quality of work.
I went and saw the finished slab but didn't get to see it before.
From my short experience so far:-
The other tradies always recommend their mates- whether they are good or not.
The OB's i have found so far recommend someone because they were nice- but often have no idea whether it was a good job or not.
(not trying to offend anyone there)
This grano came highly recommended by another OB- couldn't say enough good stuff about him- but it wasn't for his quality of work.
I went and saw the finished slab but didn't get to see it before.
Is there a way to link this to the OB forum or would I need to start from scratch?
Just report the post (click on the 3 dots at bottom right) and ask for it to be transferred. Homeone is sure to get the message that way.
Thanks,
gave that a try- so will see what happens
gave that a try- so will see what happens
It's hard to find a good tradie........
This grano came highly recommended by another OB- couldn't say enough good stuff about him- but it wasn't for his quality of work.
I went and saw the finished slab but didn't get to see it before.
This grano came highly recommended by another OB- couldn't say enough good stuff about him- but it wasn't for his quality of work.
I went and saw the finished slab but didn't get to see it before.
That's the problem Recommendations don't always extend to the next job....
My own rules are,
Learn what your about to do.
Then get recommendations.
Then check several jobs with the knowledge you know a good job.
Then check your own job with knowledge you know what to look for.
Learn what your about to do.
Then get recommendations.
Then check several jobs with the knowledge you know a good job.
Then check your own job with knowledge you know what to look for.
That does look ugly and as if it dried too quickly, was it hot when they poured?
Saying that with the specs you stated, I can't see from those pics how that slab couldn't do the job you want it to do, there'd be heaps of houses sitting on a worse slabs and they're not falling over in drovers.
Also it looks as if you poured over an old slab, if so I've seen the same happen when doing so.
Saying that with the specs you stated, I can't see from those pics how that slab couldn't do the job you want it to do, there'd be heaps of houses sitting on a worse slabs and they're not falling over in drovers.
Also it looks as if you poured over an old slab, if so I've seen the same happen when doing so.
@Joker
"if someone in the building game with continuity and knowledge " -------->You'd think.
At Tafe one week, a teacher built a frame using the workshop (foreign order), when he and a couple more teachers tried to get it out of the workshop door it was too big, they needed to dismantle parts of it.
After they got it out the door, it still couldn't go down the stairs, they had to lower it 3 stories with ropes, once down in the courtyard, it still couldn't get out the front door of the building.
4 of us got disciplinary letters sent to our homes because we were laughing so much, all of them were Gold licensed Builders.
"if someone in the building game with continuity and knowledge " -------->You'd think.
At Tafe one week, a teacher built a frame using the workshop (foreign order), when he and a couple more teachers tried to get it out of the workshop door it was too big, they needed to dismantle parts of it.
After they got it out the door, it still couldn't go down the stairs, they had to lower it 3 stories with ropes, once down in the courtyard, it still couldn't get out the front door of the building.
4 of us got disciplinary letters sent to our homes because we were laughing so much, all of them were Gold licensed Builders.
It would have gone viral if you had videoed it and put it on You Tube.
I would call your engineer and ask if laying and bonding 100mm slab on top of your slab would be an acceptable solution.
I once had to fix an existing council building slab damaged by cutting for service trenches and the council engineer came back with a solution of 65mm slab on top with epoxy set pins every 1m2 for bonding.
I once had to fix an existing council building slab damaged by cutting for service trenches and the council engineer came back with a solution of 65mm slab on top with epoxy set pins every 1m2 for bonding.
An 86mm slab topping was suggested at one point- but it was not for structural purposes, more to give a better surface for tiling on.
The concreter paid for an engineer to come out. That engineer was only interested in what cracks were visible, how wide they were and whether the footings were the correct depth (at one point).
The slab has been sitting since January.
He has said that the steel is now redundant as the shrinkage has occurred and because the concrete acts in compression, cold joints and the fact that the beams may not be linked to the slab is not an issue- no cracks exceeded limits (deemed as shrinkage only)- end of report.
So why would the engineering specify N12-500 ties between the beams and slab OR poured monolithically if it was not needed!?
I am waiting for my engineer to come back with a written report- but he has said that drilling and dowelling will be needed in the area where the delays for the slab being poured over the internal beams 'blew out' on the hot day with no 'melding' to keep the beams live.
God they are slow though!
The concreter paid for an engineer to come out. That engineer was only interested in what cracks were visible, how wide they were and whether the footings were the correct depth (at one point).
The slab has been sitting since January.
He has said that the steel is now redundant as the shrinkage has occurred and because the concrete acts in compression, cold joints and the fact that the beams may not be linked to the slab is not an issue- no cracks exceeded limits (deemed as shrinkage only)- end of report.
So why would the engineering specify N12-500 ties between the beams and slab OR poured monolithically if it was not needed!?
I am waiting for my engineer to come back with a written report- but he has said that drilling and dowelling will be needed in the area where the delays for the slab being poured over the internal beams 'blew out' on the hot day with no 'melding' to keep the beams live.
God they are slow though!
"""Saying that with the specs you stated, I can't see from those pics how that slab couldn't do the job you want it to do, there'd be heaps of houses sitting on a worse slabs and they're not falling over in drovers."""""'
Only an arsehole would say I told you so when everyone else was calling it a failure.
So I won't say it.
86mm topping for the tiles?
Who are these people?
As if the screed bed wouldn't compensate for the roughness of the floor, that's the kind of stuff you tell suckers to make them get more work done.
Be told Australian building standards are second to none, if your slab didn't turn out 100%, it's still probably 200% over engineered for safety.
Only an arsehole would say I told you so when everyone else was calling it a failure.
So I won't say it.
86mm topping for the tiles?
Who are these people?
As if the screed bed wouldn't compensate for the roughness of the floor, that's the kind of stuff you tell suckers to make them get more work done.
Be told Australian building standards are second to none, if your slab didn't turn out 100%, it's still probably 200% over engineered for safety.
I am an owner builder in WA that has been struggling with getting a good job- be that close 'to any sort of Australian Standards'!!
The siteworks was bad enough and now the grano workers have bent me over the barrel.
The issues are not how much concrete they laid- it's how they did it. And the grano can't seem to understand that.
"that's how we always do it" or "we don't do it that way" - sick of hearing those phrases.
"the engineer sits behind a desk and doesn't know how it's really done" is another.
The engineer has seen my photos of the slab being laid and wants to xray it- over $6k worth!! Plus his $1.1k for the inspection and report.
Even if we 'patch' these known/discovered issues, there are likely items missed that will still compromise the integrity of the slab- not to mention these would be 'band-aids' anyway. The engineer said that he is kind of stuck where he can't condemn the slab but then can't assure me that it will ever be right either.
We can't even lay tiles on it as the surface is 'burnished' in places, shedding hair-line cracks, drummy and crazed everywhere. The engineer has called it 'not fit for purpose'.
So I don't know where to go from here. The slab will never be as good as the engineer designed it to be- even though I upgraded all the steel and increased it to 25MPa.
Using termi-mesh around the edges is also an issue where there are so many 'cold-joints' and cracks opening up that the termites will likely just come through those. But hairline cracks are not considered 'structural'- even if there are hundreds of them.
I would like to have it removed and start again but not sure how to go about it.
I have booked a meeting with a lawyer on Monday to start some sort of process. The engineer is worried that there might be an issue with me knowing things weren't right but let them continue with the job. I was lost in my fear and bullying from the grano and his cousin, matched with not knowing where to turn, and let the grano finish- I even paid them fully!
Here in WA we have the building commission, but am thinking the legal advice is the best place to start.
The siteworks was bad enough and now the grano workers have bent me over the barrel.
The issues are not how much concrete they laid- it's how they did it. And the grano can't seem to understand that.
"that's how we always do it" or "we don't do it that way" - sick of hearing those phrases.
"the engineer sits behind a desk and doesn't know how it's really done" is another.
The engineer has seen my photos of the slab being laid and wants to xray it- over $6k worth!! Plus his $1.1k for the inspection and report.
Even if we 'patch' these known/discovered issues, there are likely items missed that will still compromise the integrity of the slab- not to mention these would be 'band-aids' anyway. The engineer said that he is kind of stuck where he can't condemn the slab but then can't assure me that it will ever be right either.
We can't even lay tiles on it as the surface is 'burnished' in places, shedding hair-line cracks, drummy and crazed everywhere. The engineer has called it 'not fit for purpose'.
So I don't know where to go from here. The slab will never be as good as the engineer designed it to be- even though I upgraded all the steel and increased it to 25MPa.
Using termi-mesh around the edges is also an issue where there are so many 'cold-joints' and cracks opening up that the termites will likely just come through those. But hairline cracks are not considered 'structural'- even if there are hundreds of them.
I would like to have it removed and start again but not sure how to go about it.
I have booked a meeting with a lawyer on Monday to start some sort of process. The engineer is worried that there might be an issue with me knowing things weren't right but let them continue with the job. I was lost in my fear and bullying from the grano and his cousin, matched with not knowing where to turn, and let the grano finish- I even paid them fully!
Here in WA we have the building commission, but am thinking the legal advice is the best place to start.
all liability falls squarely on the builder , well at least here in vic anyway.
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