Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Jan 11, 2016 12:34 pm Hi everyone, I'm new here, this is my first post. My wife and I are planning an ownerbuild property on 2 1/2 acres in Kinglake West. I have designed the concept plans and had all of the relevant surveys and reports undertaken at the block. I was hoping my first post would be a positive one this early on in build but it is not. The block has no power to it. I believe the agent had verbally advised that it did but my fault for not double checking. The owner of the block (my soon to be new neighbour) advised last month that there wasnt power but he'd been quoted about $1,800 a few years ago to run the power from the pit outside his house up to the block. So 8 weeks ago I applied to SP Ausnet to get a quote to run the power to the corner of our block. Expecting no more that $3,000, I was horrified when the offer arrived today at $25,000 (of which SP Ausnet KINDLY offered to pay $3,500 of!) so we are left with $21,500 to pay. They said that the LV cable needs upgrading from the closest power pole (about 200m away) and cannot simply be ran from the pit. Has anyone else had an experience like this? Considering we only paid $170,000 for the block, this extra cost has come as a massive shock. Re: power connection to block 2Jan 11, 2016 12:59 pm unless you have any of what you were told in writing, you have no recourse. Youll just have to pay to get it done if you want power to the block. alternatively, depending on your orientation and location, you could put that money into building your own private solar array and battery storage for possibly only a little more (depending on the size of the house and facilities). Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: power connection to block 3Jan 11, 2016 2:07 pm My rural acreage did not have a power connection although there is a high voltage power line crossing my block. Before I bought the land I got a speculative estimate of $5,000 from the local electrical supply company to provide a low voltage service point. Towards the end of my build I requested a firm quotation. This time the power company sent someone out to my site to inspect the existing power line. This person contacted me to say the existing power line was too weak and did I want to proceed as it would be a very expensive upgrade. I asked if there was any other options and was told that there was 30 amps spare capacity on my neighbours supply so I agreed to limit my electrical load to 32 amps (instead of the normal 63 amps) and got a 2 phase 32 amp supply. There were no power company charges for this, I only paid for the trenching, conduits and cables. Perhaps you could contact SP Ausnet to see if this option is available to you. (it will mean no electric heating or air-conditioning and probably gas cooking instead of electric). Re: power connection to block 4Jan 11, 2016 5:42 pm Thanks for your replies. I've looked into the quote further, why it is so expensive is the majority of the cost is upgrading the LV cabling from the nearest power pole to my existing neighbours pit. So effectively, 80% of the cost is me paying to upgrade the existing cabling to my 2 neighbours houses and then my new house. I dont see why if the cabling there wasnt sufficient enough in the first place why its my responsibility to pay for it to be upgraded. SP Ausnet even confirmed that it has no baring on the size house we are building. Re: power connection to block 5Jan 11, 2016 9:31 pm Hi KLFirstTimer, Kinglake West is like the area I live in, ie rural residential in SE Qld. Here supply is run overhead from state owned poles to your own pole on your land, and from there either underground or overground to your dwelling as you desire. It seems in Vic, "pits" are the connection point you tap in to, instead of the power pole itself? The only reason I can see the existing low voltage line to your pit must be upgraded (to a higher voltage capacity I assume ) is that the LV capacity from that side of your local transformer is used up, ie they cant provide supply to any more homes without beefing up the transformer. This is why when buying vacant land , you should always make the contract subject to advice in writing from the electricity provider, that supply can be guaranteed with out any upgrade costs being charged to you. Typically in SE Qld, if a new transformer is needed to supply your block, prices start at $15k upwards. In such a case, I would be adjusting the contract price for the block accordingly. Re: power connection to block 6Jan 12, 2016 7:24 am It's your responsibility because YOU want it. The power company doesn't NEED you to live there. The same goes for NBN, you can get it in non NBN areas before its rolled out if you pay for the infrastructure for the area. You're not entitled to it. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: power connection to block 7Jan 12, 2016 10:35 am Ponzu It's your responsibility because YOU want it. The power company doesn't NEED you to live there. The same goes for NBN, you can get it in non NBN areas before its rolled out if you pay for the infrastructure for the area. You're not entitled to it. The difference is - power is a basic necessity and NBN is a luxury. The upgrade of all the cabling to the pit should be the responsibility of the power company that is providing the service and you pay from the pit. You buy the cabling but you don't get to keep it if you leave?? That doesn't seem very fair to me. I had a similar issue - my land has a HV power pole right outside my main gate. A quote from the power company 3 years ago was around $21,000 (and that's before you pay for a single watt of electricity) I had to buy the transformer for the pole and then the cabling to the house site ($18,000 for the transformer and $3,00 for the cable. ). I don't own the transformer and I don't get to take it with me if I leave. Sucks big time if you ask me. I'm going completely off grid for about half the cost and will never have a power bill. Can't wait for the power companies to go belly up so I can do my Happy Dance!! Re: power connection to block 8Jan 12, 2016 11:05 am Power is a basic necessity to a home. It's a vacant block. A vacant block has no need for power. You want power where it's not installed, you are responsible. Power is available in the quantity that is needed to the block which has a home. If you really can't differentiate then there is no amount of explaining that will clear it up for you. Should the power companies be responsible for providing power to the vast tranches of vacant land in Australia? Should a power company be responsible for the infrastructure if I decide to live in the middle of the Nullarbor? No. Same thing. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: power connection to block 10Jan 12, 2016 12:28 pm Thats calm. The OP didn't get why it is his responsibility to pay for infrastructure that is not necessary to anyone but himself. I explained it, albeit bluntly. You perpetuated his belief that because power is a necessity, it should be paid by the electricity companies, because its not like you get to keep the infrastructure. Where necessity comes into it from the perspective of a supplier, it is conditional, in much the same way that when telstra have an obligation to provide a telephone line, they only have to provide it to a certain point, with all further costs covered by the owner. Another way to look at it is when you build a house on a large block/acreage, you need to supply a road that is big enough for emergency services to get to the property, be able to turn around and include enough room for passing every so often. You cant take this when you leave either. Moral of the story is when buying vacant land you need to do your due diligence to ensure that what you're planning to do with it is a) suitable and b) has all the required connection or have budgeted the appropriate cost for the connections. There is no free lunch here. There is enough people in the world that feel entitled to something they are not. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: power connection to block 11Jan 12, 2016 12:42 pm As I read it we are not talking about the Nullabor - there are apparently at least two other residencies nearby using the same pit. And I happen to agree with the OP's statement: "So effectively, 80% of the cost is me paying to upgrade the existing cabling to my 2 neighbours houses and then my new house. I dont see why if the cabling there wasnt sufficient enough in the first place why its my responsibility to pay for it to be upgraded." And by your reasoning - if the pit cannot handle one more house the OP has to upgrade it all at his expense. Then if the power lines also cannot take the extra house he should also be responsible for putting in new power lines - and then perhaps a new generator at the site of origin? And there really isn't any call for using classic 'shutdown statements" such as "If you really can't differentiate then there is no amount of explaining that will clear it up for you." when I am expressing my opinion. And in this case my opinion sides with the OP's and not yours. Re: power connection to block 12Jan 12, 2016 12:47 pm Ponzu Thats calm. The OP didn't get why it is his responsibility to pay for infrastructure that is not necessary to anyone but himself. I explained it, albeit bluntly. You perpetuated his belief that because power is a necessity, it should be paid by the electricity companies, because its not like you get to keep the infrastructure. Where necessity comes into it from the perspective of a supplier, it is conditional, in much the same way that when telstra have an obligation to provide a telephone line, they only have to provide it to a certain point, with all further costs covered by the owner. Another way to look at it is when you build a house on a large block/acreage, you need to supply a road that is big enough for emergency services to get to the property, be able to turn around and include enough room for passing every so often. You cant take this when you leave either. Moral of the story is when buying vacant land you need to do your due diligence to ensure that what you're planning to do with it is a) suitable and b) has all the required connection or have budgeted the appropriate cost for the connections. There is no free lunch here. There is enough people in the world that feel entitled to something they are not. Being that this is my first post and first owner build you were a little hard on me! lol I tried to further elaborate on my initial post a few posts down as I knew from the start I would have to pay for the power to be connected however the owner of the land who I bought it off (now my new neighbour) advised he had called the provider up in the past and was told approx. $1,800 so I was expecting maybe 3 - 4 grand. Where the large expense comes in is they are saying I need to pay for the cabling to be upgraded from the pole to my neighbours pit. This is about 80% of the cost. As there are only 3 houses in the street (mine will be the 4th) I dont see why its up to me to pay to upgrade the cable for the other houses as well. Even my electrician said I should only be responsible for the cost of the cabling from the pit to my new pit outside my block. Re: power connection to block 13Jan 12, 2016 12:51 pm Ponzu Should the power companies be responsible for providing power to the vast tranches of vacant land in Australia? Should a power company be responsible for the infrastructure if I decide to live in the middle of the Nullarbor? No. Same thing. Im not building in the outback, granted its not in the suburbs but at the same time its only semi rural at best. And yes, why shouldnt they provide cabling to my door at their expense? Gas lines are provided at the expense of the supplier, so is the phone line....so why not electricity? Re: power connection to block 14Jan 12, 2016 2:41 pm Beetaloo My rural acreage did not have a power connection although there is a high voltage power line crossing my block. Before I bought the land I got a speculative estimate of $5,000 from the local electrical supply company to provide a low voltage service point. Towards the end of my build I requested a firm quotation. This time the power company sent someone out to my site to inspect the existing power line. This person contacted me to say the existing power line was too weak and did I want to proceed as it would be a very expensive upgrade. I asked if there was any other options and was told that there was 30 amps spare capacity on my neighbours supply so I agreed to limit my electrical load to 32 amps (instead of the normal 63 amps) and got a 2 phase 32 amp supply. There were no power company charges for this, I only paid for the trenching, conduits and cables. Perhaps you could contact SP Ausnet to see if this option is available to you. (it will mean no electric heating or air-conditioning and probably gas cooking instead of electric). thanks for the advice I have contacted them and asked if this is possible. If we also installed solar power would that help to get the power needed for air con etc? Re: power connection to block 15Jan 12, 2016 2:50 pm KLFirstTimer Im not building in the outback, granted its not in the suburbs but at the same time its only semi rural at best. And yes, why shouldnt they provide cabling to my door at their expense? Gas lines are provided at the expense of the supplier, so is the phone line....so why not electricity? Don't be naive - It's because the infrastructure on gas and on telephone lines is infinitely simpler and returns can be made practically from day one. Also unless your house is on the boundary where the phone line and gas connection are, you will likely have out of pocket expenses on the connection of those also. For gas in victoria, the provider will provide the first 20 meters free. So, if youre say, in the middle of your 10000sqm block, you will at the very least be expected to provide the trenches for the connections past 20 meters. That wont be done by the gas or the telephone suppliers. Given your view of "how things should be", i would recommend you do a little more poking around the fine print of everything before you get stung with something else that isnt like you expected. If you dont have al alternative but to pay the electricity company and Beetaloo's option is not viable, I would consider a solar and battery set up for the price. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: power connection to block 16Jan 12, 2016 3:18 pm Ponzu KLFirstTimer Given your view of "how things should be", i would recommend you do a little more poking around the fine print of everything before you get stung with something else that isnt like you expected. If you dont have al alternative but to pay the electricity company and Beetaloo's option is not viable, I would consider a solar and battery set up for the price. Well I thought that was the whole idea of this forum, for people like myself who, yes you are right, thought I did all of my due diligence only to find out I had missed an item, to come on here and ask advice from people with more experience and get positive feedback on what is required etc. My company deals with reports for council DA's every day so I thought I had a more than average understanding of what is required however I am quickly learning there are alot of items I didnt know about, and the only way to find out about these is to ask others for advice. Being that my neighbour is a builder and told me he was advised it would only cost about $2,000 by the same company who now want $21,500 I felt I had done as much DD as I could (also considering SP Ausnet advised they cannot provide even an idea of cost for 6-8 weeks). I also contacted a solar company yesterday to see if i can go full solar. They told me that even if I did, I still need to be connected to the grid. I wasnt expecting something for nothing, I just wasnt expecting a cost of 10 times what I was initially advised. Clearly the next block of land I ever buy I now know what to do. Hindsight is a lovely thing. Re: power connection to block 17Jan 12, 2016 4:02 pm waxinggibbous As I read it we are not talking about the Nullabor - there are apparently at least two other residencies nearby using the same pit. And I happen to agree with the OP's statement: "So effectively, 80% of the cost is me paying to upgrade the existing cabling to my 2 neighbours houses and then my new house. I dont see why if the cabling there wasnt sufficient enough in the first place why its my responsibility to pay for it to be upgraded." And by your reasoning - if the pit cannot handle one more house the OP has to upgrade it all at his expense. Then if the power lines also cannot take the extra house he should also be responsible for putting in new power lines - and then perhaps a new generator at the site of origin? And there really isn't any call for using classic 'shutdown statements" such as "If you really can't differentiate then there is no amount of explaining that will clear it up for you." when I am expressing my opinion. And in this case my opinion sides with the OP's and not yours. I missed this post - the upgrade wont be to his two neighbors, but to the pit that is servicing the neighbours. The fact he is drawing from the pit is why he would need to pay for the upgrade to the pit. the neighbours dont get an immediate benefit unless they suddenly realise they can or want to draw more power. The houses are in semi rural acreage lots - the original draw for more houses wasnt needed at the time, so the power companies are not in the business of over engineering infrastucture to semi rural properties. the shut down statement is about people feelin entitled to something for nothing. Youre all still of the belief that a business should bear the cost.if all businesses ran like this, no one would make any money. It doesn't bother me who's opinion you side with btw, the scenario out lined by the OP is just cold hard reality Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: power connection to block 18Jan 12, 2016 4:10 pm KLFirstTimer I also contacted a solar company yesterday to see if i can go full solar. They told me that even if I did, I still need to be connected to the grid. . I would try a few more. I can't imagine why you HAVE to be connected to a grid when there are properties that are not. Perhaps someone has more information on this? The solar company spinning this line should explain more. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: power connection to block 19Jan 12, 2016 5:24 pm With regards to "having to be on the grid for solar", what a load of tripe. Try companies that specialise in off grid solar. Take the $21,500 and put it into batteries and give the power company the ar$e forever. Re: power connection to block 20Jan 12, 2016 9:52 pm what a load of codswallop that you have to be grid connected to go offgrid solar. Sounds like the crap you'd expect to hear from TVS or similar companies that employ sales droids on the phone. If I could only afford it, I'd be offgrid here in a flash... price of offgrid is getting very close to be ongrid, and moreso in areas where you need to pay for infrastructure upgrades as the OP is. Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . 3 52186 Hi all I'm currently building a duplex in Sydney and we need to do a new water connection to the second unit. The water main is on the other side of the road so we need… 0 4566 I had to do this 2 weeks ago. I'm in Melbourne. The water company was Ok if moved upto 600 mm sideways. Any more than that and they wanted $$. The water meter connects… 2 1413 |