Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Jul 20, 2014 10:32 pm Hello everyone, We are about to start our first OB house and are 99% sure it will be ICF external walls and tossing up between ICF or timber framed internal walls. Hoping to find some OB's here that have built ICF that can give some feedback about how they found the build process and how they find living in the home now. Is the temperature stable, do you still need air con, what did you build internal walls out of and why. We have design approval so once we make a decision about the internal walls we can get the engineering done and get on with it. Hoping to start around Nov. and will start a build thread then. Planning to do as much as possible ourselves. Thanks in advance. Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 3Sep 24, 2014 3:13 pm I am building an ICF home using the ezyblock system. The ICF format is great for thermal properties, sound reduction and strength. However, it is not a DIY system, it is best to have the job done with a "shell builder" that is a crew of say 4 men with their own form support props etc. As some systems require the builder be it contractor or owner builder to rent the prop system, this turns out a "sting" operation as a D.I.Y builder will take much longer than a specialised shell builder crew... I'm talking a week against months. Another down side is the cost of rendering the blocks, quotes vary between $ 40 per M2 to $ 100 per M2 based on product selected and man power. Also, filling the blocks ... the pumper and crew will want to rush the job which will result in "blow outs" You must take the superior position ... Line the crew up and tell them you are the boss, they will follow your orders and if not they will not be paid. The pour must be lifted in no more than 1.4 metre height all around then back up for the top section. Program you concrete delivery to finish the first lift so that you can fully pat down the mix and have a slight break to allow the concrete to firm up. Do not go any more than 120 mm slump, use a 50 mm hose. Apart from that go do it!! Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 4Sep 24, 2014 8:21 pm They tried introducing a similar product into WA a few years ago From what I can remember the product fell well short and wasnt cost competitive, and the builder closed down. Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 5Sep 25, 2014 2:33 am Thanks for the replies. Going to go with Thermacell and timber internals. Will pour in 2 stages to eliminate the need for bracing. Unfortunately the project has to be delayed until March due to about to have a shoulder reconstruction, which will delay us until summer so we will wait a bit longer to avoid pouring the slab in 40 deg heat. Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 6Sep 25, 2014 2:27 pm What thickness walls will you be using? If 150 mm you do not need internal veneer walls. For inside room walls, check out a product Styropanel www.styropanel.com it comes in 75 mm thick or 50 mm thick panels, easy to erect and good sound / thermal abilities. When you do your concrete slab, make sure you have an edge "steep down" at least 65 mm. Don't listen to the people who tell you that a "steep down" is not needed. Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 7Sep 26, 2014 11:52 am BUTCH9980 it is best to have the job done with a "shell builder" that is a crew of say 4 men with their own form support props etc. ... Another down side is the cost of rendering the blocks, quotes vary between $ 40 per M2 to $ 100 per M2 based on product selected and man power. So how does this impact on your overall cost? ITs still worthwhile? BUTCH9980 The pour must be lifted in no more than 1.4 metre height all around then back up for the top section. What does that mean? the first pour only goes up to a max height of 1.4 m? you wait for it to harden so it supports the weight of the top pour right? BUTCH9980 When you do your concrete slab, make sure you have an edge "steep down" at least 65 mm. Don't listen to the people who tell you that a "steep down" is not needed. More info please? Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 8Sep 27, 2014 10:11 am Quote: What does that mean? the first pour only goes up to a max height of 1.4 m? you wait for it to harden so it supports the weight of the top pour right? Whenever core filling either something like Zego blocks or a Besser block wall to a standard height ( 2.4 - 2.7m high ) it is always good practice to pour the wall in increments of no more than half the height at a time to prevent blowouts. By the time you start back at where you first started pumping in the concrete, the first 1.2m or so has hardened just slightly. You still have to take care of course and even doing this I've seen a few walls come adrift especially if the structural engineer wants you to use a vibrator to help compact the slurry. Standard practice for most concrete slabs is to have the edge rebated 25mm or more so that flashing can direct the water to the external face of either the bricks/blocks/ICF etc so it doesn't come back inside. I think 65mm is too much myself. Like this image here at the top of the page... http://qtaustralia.com.au/14-0-construc ... s-typical/ Stewie Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 9Sep 27, 2014 10:32 am I havent seen any engineered walls explode at the base that have been designed, formed and vibrated correctly ... But I have been on many jobs where as a contractor i have put in a extra form braces, bars ,cogs, ligs etc (Costs next to nothing but its good insurance). LOL,Once concrete hardens you'll need a jack hammer hth Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 11Sep 27, 2014 7:06 pm Most of our structural load bearing & retaining walls use a combination of brick,blockwork, precast concrete,insitu form, etc,etc as permanent formwork for reinforced concrete filled.. they are also classified as cavity fill. That is because blockwork/brickwork are structurally poor in tension/bending and require stell reinforcing HTH Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 12Sep 27, 2014 10:48 pm The thrust of this thread is ICF meaning products like zegoblock or as Butch9980 is using ezyblock etc and qebtel asked about blowouts. Why introduce solid concrete walls? Stewie Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 13Sep 28, 2014 8:10 am FYI Zego block is formwork it has no structural integrity what so ever. It is the reinforced concrete that the calcs are done on for tensile and compressive strengths, fluid pressures, material properties, material cost comparisons, analysis, building, BIM, etc, etc. The secret is to optimise the building solution......involving many variables. HTH Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 15Sep 28, 2014 2:52 pm Stewie D Quote: HTH Nah, doesn't help at all. Stewie Hmm.. LOL.....what would help, app, a facebook page, sketch, Calculations, picture, youtube video, 3D BIM model, augmented virtual reality. Anything, that I have possibly left out? Designer,Engineer (Civil,Const & Envir),Builder,Concrete & Masonry Contract.Struct Repairs Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 16Sep 30, 2014 10:41 am Using the Ezyblocks, the trick was to lay down some light steel "U" sections tracks 55 mm wide and a 30 mm high fold, ramset nailed to the concrete floor. These tracks held the base blocks so that they did not pop, also kept them in a straight line. I poured the first section to the height of the window sill, then did a second pour. The secret is good control of the concrete pump lineman, so that the wall is lifted evenly. Making the concrete a higher slump (more water) will cause "popouts" and no way can you use a vibrator. Just use a large piece of 150 x 100, 300 mm with a handle to "pat down" the walls to settle the concrete. I estimate 5% to 10% cost savings on construction against conventional materials. Where the savings will be in energy for heating and cooling. The air conditioning unit with ducted air should be 50% less than normal homes. If you use the same calculations as normal homes, you will have a huge electricity bill due to the system cutting in and out and have mildew problems. Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 17Oct 04, 2014 12:29 am The block is sloped so we will dig in at the low side for an undercroft. So walls will be 250mm for undercroft, 200mm for main level external walls, 90mm stud internals. We got a quote from an ICF builder to put the walls up. It had the usual unknowns with exclusions and provisions and it was more expensive than brick, so we will be putting the walls up ourselves. That makes it hard to determine cost savings when we will do a lot of the work ourselves, but this way of building allows us to do more. Based on the quantity survey we had done we think we can save around $100k over a builder built brick house. We have always lived in brick houses and they are always too hot in summer and too cold in winter so hoping this will be a more temp stable house. Running costs savings would be a bonus but are not the reason we chose this method. Main reason was it allows us to do more ourselves. Re: Any ICF Owner Builders Here? 18Oct 09, 2014 10:56 am You will not be un-happy with an ICF home. You will find it warm in winter and cool in summer. Cost wise, the savings will be around 10% on a DIY brick and stick build. Costs that will blow your budget will be the rendering. This is where if you are of reasonable skill ... you can save big bucks. Chasing electrical and plumbing no problem. I still suggest Styro panel for internal walls. Good questions but the best answer will be obtained by visiting (ie: interviewing) a couple of house designers and/or builders and ask them. You may find it challenging to… 2 3625 Thank you so much. This has been very helpful. We definitely wish to settle and get these people out of our life. They are trying to charge us interest on late… 7 15314 Hi VK, Think it's worth investing time in an Owner Builder course to equip you with basic knowledge on Australian Building Industry and its regulations. Also, I suggest… 11 25332 |