Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Jul 19, 2014 8:46 pm hey all, I've got another question, as the title states I need to get some confirmation around the rule for earthing the water bond.. We've got copper piping starting up at the front of the house through the brickwall and then pvc water piping takes over.. I've asked the electrician can we earth the copper pipe (outside water) and he's come back at saying there's no need as you've got pvc pipes.. Tried arguing that next door neighbour who's also OB his electrician did it as well as the water metre at the front of the house.. he's basically said look I don't want to loose my licence you definately don't need it.. so i'm taking his word on that.. I'm hitting a brick wall.. thks very much.. Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 2Jul 20, 2014 11:10 am Is any of the copper pipe run buried underground?
If any of the copper pipe is buried underground it should be earthed. Note that whilst PVC pipe is an insulator, water is not, particularly if it has dissolved salts. Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 3Jul 20, 2014 11:17 am I thought the current ruling ( NSW anyway ) was that wiring should basically be earthed three times - at the meter, into the slab via a reo bar and wherever you can off the copper pipes. This all of course varies dramatically from build to build depending on whether you have a raised timber floor or conc. slab etc. Stewie Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 4Jul 20, 2014 12:41 pm Hi all, it's a concrete slab, I've got the steel reo in the slab earthed to the metre box + the metre box earthed to a copper stake in the ground.. Copper water outlet is not earthed... Need some clarification on this.. cheers Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 5Jul 20, 2014 6:00 pm I had a look at AS 3000 "Wiring Rules" AS3000 includes some sketches & examples, with either, Pipe must be earthed, Recommended that pipe be earthed and Pipe not required to be earthed, depending on the actual plumbing arrangements. In summary the copper pipe must be earthed if it is both accessible and there is a conductive path to an internal plumbing fixture. This conductive path could for example be, a conductive pipe, or conductive building structure (i.e.steel framed building) or conductive sheeting or metallic foil wrap, where any of these elements could come into casual contact with a plumbing fixture. The earthing of the house must be signed off by a licensed electrical contractor and he must issue an electrical certificate of compliance. Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 6Jul 21, 2014 2:05 pm gav89z he's basically said look I don't want to loose my licence you definately don't need it.. so i'm taking his word on that.. As if you would lose your licence for grounding something that didnt need to be. lol Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 8Jul 28, 2014 10:56 am gav89z hey qebtel, so do you also mean it's not required? I mean you cant lose your licence for grounding things that dont need to be grounded. But if your sparkie says you dont need it, why not accept his word? Do not assume what your neighbour has, you must have too. His electrical layout is may be different to yours. If you have pvc pipes internally they are not going to carry a charge. Notwithstanding what Beetaloo posted above, If the water line from your meter to the entry point in your wall is copper, why would you need it earthed? Its already earthed by being in the ground! You're never going to be touching the pipe, are you? The only way you'll ever get a current leaking down that pipe is if a workman has some sort of accident with a power tool or something whilst working on/near the copper pipe. If earthing copper pipes is a building standard now its the nanny state going beserk again, trying to protect us from every possible unlikely mishap. Ive never earthed any copper pipes in my old houses. Waste of time. Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 9Jul 28, 2014 8:00 pm qebtel gav89z hey qebtel, so do you also mean it's not required? I mean you cant lose your licence for grounding things that dont need to be grounded. But if your sparkie says you dont need it, why not accept his word? Do not assume what your neighbour has, you must have too. His electrical layout is may be different to yours. If you have pvc pipes internally they are not going to carry a charge. Notwithstanding what Beetaloo posted above, If the water line from your meter to the entry point in your wall is copper, why would you need it earthed? Its already earthed by being in the ground! You're never going to be touching the pipe, are you? The only way you'll ever get a current leaking down that pipe is if a workman has some sort of accident with a power tool or something whilst working on/near the copper pipe. If earthing copper pipes is a building standard now its the nanny state going beserk again, trying to protect us from every possible unlikely mishap. Ive never earthed any copper pipes in my old houses. Waste of time. qebtel, thank you very much for the above explanation makes much more sense then "you don't need it" from the electrician.... at least you've explained it.. thank you again.! Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 10Jul 28, 2014 9:36 pm qebtel, over the years there have been a fair few plumbers electrocuted because of faulty wiring contacting copper pipes in houses especially old ones. Earthing everything ensures that at least if they get zapped, the earth will take the bulk of the current. Stewie Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 11Jul 29, 2014 8:58 am Even partial copper/pvc water pipes, water still conducts electricity, so earthing is a low cost safety benefit. Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 12Jul 30, 2014 11:13 am Stewie D qebtel, over the years there have been a fair few plumbers electrocuted because of faulty wiring contacting copper pipes in houses especially old ones. Earthing everything ensures that at least if they get zapped, the earth will take the bulk of the current. Stewie Yes but its just overt stupidity that caused it. Ive done plenty of plumbing and electrical work and live wiring just never contacts copper piping, and I cant see how it could under normal circumstances. you'd have to be a total moron (no offence to those electrocuted plumbers ) ITs just over protection by the nanny state. Soon we will have to all have earth straps on our cars FFS. bpratt Even partial copper/pvc water pipes, water still conducts electricity, so earthing is a low cost safety benefit. Yes thats already been said, but how are you going to get electrocuted by water sitting in a a pipe? Face it, its just not going to happen. Circuit breakers are mandatory now on old and new houses, so before a big enough charge could even be put down the line, the source cct will shut down. Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 13Jul 31, 2014 9:17 am qebtel there are thousands of old houses around Australia that were built in the 30's, 40's and 50's that still have their original wiring. A lot of them would be double brick and most of those would have the older cloth wrapped wiring and also metal conduits for the wiring under the plaster. A lot of those places would have had minimal updates for electrical so it's fair to assume those houses would be a risk to any plumber or sparky working on them. Earthing the wiring at least removes a lot of the risk. Stewie Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 15Aug 01, 2014 6:31 pm Modern houses - I agree totally. They should be safe as with all the regs we have in place plus double insulated wiring and RCDs as you say. It's the older ones that a lot of these guys get zapped on. Stewie Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 16Aug 01, 2014 7:12 pm qebtel Yes but its just overt stupidity that caused it. Ive done plenty of plumbing and electrical work and live wiring just never contacts copper piping, and I cant see how it could under normal circumstances. you'd have to be a total moron (no offence to those electrocuted plumbers ) ITs just over protection by the nanny state. Soon we will have to all have earth straps on our cars FFS. Qebtel from what I understand the earthing of copper pipes is a bit of a legacy rule in the wiring code but one that still makes sense in some scenarios. It's in place for example if someone drilled through a copper water pipe in the wall and potentially came in contact with power. Maybe hammering a nail in to a wall power and copper pipe come into contact. Or another example a faulty extension lead may be damaged resting on an outdoor tap. In that scenario the entire water circuit would be live and have no conduit to earth until a human touches their taps and bang! Hence the need for earthing. I agree rcds should also protect from that, but again if an RCDS fails (and they do fail) you still have a potentially deadly scenario, so earthing is the backup safety to that. With the use of a lot more PEX type plastic piping in houses the need to earth isn't really there as it used to be as plastic means it's not a full metal/ conductive circuit, but the wiring rules don't make exceptions if you use PEX or not. And for good reason as Some plumbing installs may still use copper pipes throughout the building, (As there is no mandate to use PEX.) So to be safe the need to earth to ground is still required an all situations to avoid any confusion. Better to be safe than sorry. As for the sparky saying it's not required. That really surprises me, they don't get to choose to earth or not. It's part of the wiring rules and still is mandated as far as I know. (My sparky said he had to do it even though everything is in PEX) I'd be double checking with someone else, as earthing is simple. Call you state electrical regulator. They will be able to confirm over the phone. https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 17Aug 02, 2014 2:22 pm Good points Rob especially now as you say Pex is being used more and more to run water. Also another question that should be raised is that with the use of more steel framed houses these days compared to the more established use of timber frame or double brick then earthing the wiring is probably more important than ever. Stewie Re: Earthing water bond/water metre (PVC plumbing) is it req 18Aug 06, 2014 11:09 pm I know I'm late to the party, but as a sparkie I will throw my 2c in. From the description in the first post, earthing is definitely not required. If the water pipe leaves the ground and then goes to non conductive piping in an inaccessible location before it terminates at an accessible point (tap etc) then it doesn't need to be earthed. The only caveat is if it has a possible path to earth through a conductive building element (steel walls etc) then it is recommended they are earthed. In the OP it was said be non conductive piping through a brick wall, so the sparkie appears to me to be correct. AS3000:2007 Figure 5.4 confirms this. DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair 3 pipes are coming from upstairs bathroom. 40mm from bathroom sink, 50mm from shower and another 50mm from the bathtub. Highly unlikely that any of these will be open at… 2 448 yep sounds good make the footing bigger to to allow for the pipe in the middle 3 7299 Plumbers 'can be' plumbers, made all the worse by self certification which the building surveyor invariably accepts as proof of compliance! The good thing is that you know know. 3 4846 |