Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Mar 25, 2014 4:15 pm Hi everyone, I wonder if anyone out there would mind offering some advice to a young couple trying to build the (modest) dream.. We have got our (tiny) block of land in Alkimos Beach (Perth) and are quite reluctant to build with a big project builder due to their inflexibility, bad reviews and seemingly high costs for upgrades. Pretty much we have become distrustful after we dodged a bullet. I don't think we could cope being OB's from start to finish. It is a big job for novices with a young family and work commitments. Also, I don't think as OB's we would get the bank to give us any money because of our inexperience. Don't get me wrong, we are by no mean lazy, but I am a bit stingy and I think taking on a project like this ourselves will cost us $$$$$ which we can't afford. Having said that I suppose our options are probably quite limited. Does anyone know if it is possible to employ a professional/s to get us from beginning to lock up stage? To guide us though the endless amounts of red tape and paperwork, help schedule work as required, negotiate quotes, and make sure that the work is completed to a high standard, and everything else in between! If this is possible, would this option be cheaper and better quality than a project builder? And could complete muppets manage on their own from lock-up through to completion? Thanks so much for any advice you can offer. Re: WA house building general advice 2Mar 25, 2014 5:21 pm Some of the dissatisfaction with project builders is because people don't understand the final costs at the start. (see http://www.anewhouse.com.au/2012/01/what-will-it-cost/) Yes builders do make more profit on upgrades but that's the same as most businesses. When you buy a new car the charge the dealer makes for accessories is around 2 -3 x the price to buy them in Autobahn. ronahnz Does anyone know if it is possible to employ a professional/s to get us from beginning to lock up stage? To guide us though the endless amounts of red tape and paperwork, help schedule work as required, negotiate quotes, and make sure that the work is completed to a high standard, and everything else in between! If this is possible, would this option be cheaper and better quality than a project builder? What you are suggesting is what a typical small builder does. They don't do all the work themselves just manage other people. This will probably cost more per m2 than a project builder because they don't have the economies of scale of a big builder and you are going to have to pay for your house to be designed (included with project builders) The big saver with OB is if you are a tradie and can do some of the work yourself and get mate's rates from other tradies. I have seen a lot of people get on a treadmill of never really finishing an OB house and having no real life for 1-2 years because they are always working on the house. If you want to be able to spend quality time with your young family I would be going for a project home with minimal upgrades. Spend some time finding out what happens then you might take a different approach next time. The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: WA house building general advice 3Mar 25, 2014 7:05 pm We were thinking along the same lines as yourself but so glad we ended up going through a project builder! If you have never built before and font really know much about the process then it will be a lot safer for you to go through a builder. Dealing with tradies just after handover for me is enough to put me off owner building altogether. I honestly hate them...dishonest and crap workmanship. You would need to spend a lot of time choosing trades and getting really good recommendations from people and seeing previous work would be good too but who has time for that for every trade?! Our builder was surprisingly flexible and allowed us to supply our own tapware, shower heads, tiles, tiler and floor drains. We set up the electrical work to just have junction boxes in the ceiling so we could do our own down lights after handover. We just had capped plumbing in the laundry so we could fit that out after handover plus half the kitchen cabinetry. We deleted the driveway and alfresco paving to do aggregate and decking after handover. We did all flooring, painting and curtains after handover. Could have done glass splash back after handover. so what we got really worked out for us and we loved the flexibility! Shop around the display homes and see which builders will do what you want for your business. We built with redink but gemmill were just as accommodating with what we asked for. Re: WA house building general advice 4Mar 26, 2014 8:52 am Good advice in the previous two posts, however....small volume builders and project builders are still both capable of providing you with a poorly finished house if you let them, as evidenced by the voluminous threads about "issues" in this forum.
Whomever you sign a contract with make sure it allows progress payments to be made subject to the work being approved by your own independent bulding inspector. Here is a related post - the last paragraph. Re: WA house building general advice 5Mar 26, 2014 9:04 am Remember that the inter-web in all its glory is a very polarizing place. The reviews are usually all negative, yes there are positive reviews, but they number as a small fraction of the negative reviews. This applies to most things, people don't sing praise but will complain reasonably fast. Qebtel makes a good point, unless you are a building inspector why would you take the risk of not having one look for the various stages of your biggest investment. Re: WA house building general advice 6Mar 28, 2014 12:13 am Wow, thank you everyone for your generous responses. I really appreciate your giving advice. We are definitely not going to ob. We've received overwhelming advice to avoid that option, especially for our first build. We will likely scour the web and display homes and have conversations to try to find a builder we can work with and trust. We shall find a good building inspector, which I agree is an absolute must. Your recommendations would be gratefully received for both! Also, if we went with a project builder and were allowed to nominate one trade, what would the best trade be to nominate? Concreter, roofer, or brickie? We know people in these trades who we know won't do a crap job. Thanks again! Re: WA house building general advice 8Mar 28, 2014 9:58 am I would strongly advise against nominating any trades because you will be introducing get out of jail card for the builder if something goes wrong. Even though your builder will still be responsible for your nominated tradie performance that won't stop the blame shifting. What have you got to gain? Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: WA house building general advice 9Mar 28, 2014 12:00 pm Sorry BE but with all due respect I do not think that is entirely true. In some instances one has to nominate the provider as the standard inclusions may not be what you want. Double glazing is a good example and it does not make sense to retro fit on a new build. It does mean that you need to carefully select whom you go with. Where owner supplied items are used builders usually take no responsibility however it is still worth photodocumenting as I doubt negligence on the builders part can be excused. I do tend to agree mostly with you though and this is where the risks of owner supplied needs to be measured. Sometimes it is worth paying the margin. Re: WA house building general advice 10Mar 28, 2014 1:46 pm AussieMark Sorry BE but with all due respect I do not think that is entirely true. In some instances one has to nominate the provider as the standard inclusions may not be what you want. Double glazing is a good example and it does not make sense to retro fit on a new build. It does mean that you need to carefully select whom you go with. Where owner supplied items are used builders usually take no responsibility however it is still worth photodocumenting as I doubt negligence on the builders part can be excused. I do tend to agree mostly with you though and this is where the risks of owner supplied needs to be measured. Sometimes it is worth paying the margin. Yes you are right, sometimes you just have to do it (nominate a supplier or a trade) but we are not comparing apples with apples. ronahnz wrote: "Also, if we went with a project builder and were allowed to nominate one trade, what would the best trade be to nominate? Concreter, roofer, or brickie? We know people in these trades who we know won't do a crap job. " It just makes no sense in nominating those trades given the risk of complications. When you are in a dispute and you are 1% wrong (or your nominated subbie has done 1% wrong that will be made out that you are 95% wrong), that's not even considering broken friendships etc. just my experience Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: WA house building general advice 11Mar 29, 2014 10:08 pm BE 100% agree. This extends to other areas also where people want to supply and install their taps basins etc. It to me is high risk and not worth the saving. In my build I have only substituted double glazing and all tiles. Reason for not using the builder for the wet area was because I wanted the entire house done by the same mob which happens to be the one the builder uses anyway. Anything complex should be left to the builder as that is what they are paid for. The simpler things like driveways, flooring etc can be done post handover. Sometimes the bitterness of poor workmanship overpowers sweet taste of a good deal. Assess the risk carefully and make informed decisions. Re: WA house building general advice 13Apr 02, 2014 12:29 am There is actually a couple of things here that you probably need to know regarding OB in WA 1) if you go down the owner builder path you actually now need some sort of training to show that you are competent in building a house 2) I doubt you would get finance for the build (I have my diploma of builders registration and couldn't get finance) 3) if you sold that property within 7 years you will have to take out insurance for any subsequent owners (up to 7 years from finishing the house) for indemnity insurance which may be difficult 4) I doubt you would get a builder to build to lockup only it becomes very messy if there is problems down the track. Also you would have to take out a building license anyway to finish the house if it was to lockup only (so back to items 1,2 & 3) If you can get a builder that is happy for you to install client supplied products, good luck to you as it is getting more difficult to do. It's a huge risk on the builder if there were issues with a client supplied product. Good luck with what ever you decide to do You should check your detail drawings, it may show downpipe within brick pier. 14 14078 Versaloc is a mortarless besser block system that still needs a properly engineered footing. If you just do a 400x200 footing it will fail in time. At 17m long you need it… 1 15558 I posted the floorplan on Houzz.com forum and got some really good ideas and advice from people there. Then we reached out to a couple of renovation companies and one… 5 10018 |