Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Oct 16, 2013 12:10 am Hi all, I'm currently reviewing a property for purchase which is a 6 month old owner build that has had no occupiers since. Included in the contract is the building inspection report. After review of the inspection report, there are some things which I am wondering if I should be concerned about, or am I making too much of them? Any insights appreciated, the property was finished 6 months ago and has been vacant since: * The home has timber flooring, but there are no expansion joints. The inspector notes there is minor cupping, but doesn't regard it as a defect. * The junction between required impervious wall linings and other surfaces should be filled with a flexible waterproof material, but appears to be filled with grouting in some places. * Rendered foam padding (I don't even know what this is) used on the external walls is not DTS. There is no evidence of articulation joints in the padding, there are gaps around the ends of the cladding where abutting some building elements have not been properly flashed (what is flashing/flashed?) * No termite protection notice (not that this means it wasn't carried out, but I should definitely ask for evidence of this right?) Now some other things were just mentioned but not listed as defects: - Damp proof course looks like it was an alternative solution, as opposed to the normal plastic sheeting. - Downlights not verified if they are insulated correctly. - External paving/landscaping section talks about how it needs a certain depth and sloop per 100mm. Probably the most confusing sentence I've read before, but that's what I can glean from it. It then goes on to describe how an alternative solution has been prepared for the property, and that the recommendations for it need to be implemented. I'm not entirely sure of the ramifications of some of the less obvious things listed here. Since I am still negotiating with the vendor, I may be able to include some of these to be fixed as part of a settlement condition. Any advice helpful, thanks in advance. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 2Oct 16, 2013 8:54 am Personally I'd run a mile give the issues you have mentioned - - DPC under the slab sounds suss - termite proofing ditto - waterproofing to wet areas ditto Quote: Rendered foam padding (I don't even know what this is) used on the external walls is not DTS. I think you mean rendered foam cladding. The OB should be able to provide certificates for all the important stuff - insulation used for the walls and ceilings - plumbing - electrical etc etc and from all the licensed trades not what his brother in law has done for cash. You could still buy the place but I would be asking for a big reduction in price to cover the cost of likely rectification work. Not if but when scenario. Stewie Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 3Oct 16, 2013 9:33 am Stewie D Personally I'd run a mile give the issues you have mentioned - - DPC under the slab sounds suss - termite proofing ditto - waterproofing to wet areas ditto Quote: Rendered foam padding (I don't even know what this is) used on the external walls is not DTS. I think you mean rendered foam cladding. The OB should be able to provide certificates for all the important stuff - insulation used for the walls and ceilings - plumbing - electrical etc etc and from all the licensed trades not what his brother in law has done for cash. You could still buy the place but I would be asking for a big reduction in price to cover the cost of likely rectification work. Not if but when scenario. Stewie Hi Stewie, thanks for the reply. In regards to the termite proofing, that is something we can get them to do I am sure, and pending a positive inspection of a clear premises would be a settlement condition. The waterproofing has me more concerned, and it looks like there are 3 issues there - the alternative solution used for the damp proof course (which has been certified according to the contract), the waterproofing between the outside walls, and the landscaping sloping/depth etc again another alternative solution but one that says it's recommendations need to be implemented. Not sure what that means, it's been built but not in the recommended way or something? Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 4Oct 16, 2013 12:24 pm It can be a mine field buying an owner build, particularly one that may have been built for profit seeing as how the house has never been occupied. Owner builds can have a lot less regulatory scrutiny and this has been a worry within the industry for a long time. You have already identified a possible/probable breach of the 6 star compliance and the possible/probable non issue of the necessary compliance certificate to gain the necessary 6 star compliance in another thread. If an owner builder sells within 6 and a 1/2 years, they are required to provide a report from a prescribed building practitioner but you must remember that this is one of their choosing. I suggest that you take the time to read the links below to get an insight of industry failings in this area. http://www.audit.vic.gov.au/publication ... rmits.html http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/ownerbuilder viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61277 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 5Oct 16, 2013 4:16 pm The OB has provided the termite protection certificate which is one less concern. The local council says the house must be at least 5 star energy rated and would not have been provided an occupancy permit if it was not, more than that they cannot divulge without consent from the OB, as that information is confidential. The BS has told me the same thing. I will speak with the inspector tonight to get a better idea of the points he highlighted. He only listed two defects, the rest were observations. I am also going for another inspection tomorrow evening. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 6Oct 16, 2013 4:36 pm ismithers The local council says the house must be at least 5 star energy rated and would not have been provided an occupancy permit if it was not It has been 6 star for several years now. I have seen numerous houses in Victoria that were given occupancy certificates when not compliant with the 6 star rating requirements. I have written details in several threads about this. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 7Oct 16, 2013 4:52 pm I received my planning permit in late 2011 which should mean I required 6 star in Vics. However it only needed 5 stars, perhaps the reason why was that I initially applied for the planning permit a 12 months earlier, there was only a 5 star requirement. I wouldn't worry about the expansion joint in the timber, unless the house was the size of a stadium. You can also recaulk corners, no big deal. I'm not sure what DTS means. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 8Oct 16, 2013 5:05 pm JB1 I'm not sure what DTS means. Deemed To Satisfy. It's when the BCA references Australian Standards that can then be called up. 3in1 Supadiverta. Rainwater Harvesting Best Practice using syphonic drainage. Cleaner Neater Smarter Cheaper Supa Gutter Pumper. A low cost syphonic eaves gutter overflow solution. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 9Oct 16, 2013 5:58 pm JB1 I received my planning permit in late 2011 which should mean I required 6 star in Vics. However it only needed 5 stars, perhaps the reason why was that I initially applied for the planning permit a 12 months earlier, there was only a 5 star requirement. I wouldn't worry about the expansion joint in the timber, unless the house was the size of a stadium. You can also recaulk corners, no big deal. I'm not sure what DTS means. Thanks for the reply, Yeah his permit was around the same time as yours. What is recaulking? The house is 23sq I think, I guess the worry is that the floor will cup or need expensive repairs to fix it which is why I was asking. We've been chatting to the estate agent and have resolved a lot of the things previously listed. I will chat to the building inspector tonight and see what that yields, but at present we are quite positive about things. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 11Oct 16, 2013 11:16 pm qebtel USing grout instead of flexible sealant? Sounds to me whomoever did the finishing is clueless. BEWARE. From chatting to the building inspector tonight he said that this issue goes on 99% of his reports, and is more a technicality than an actual defect but it has to be listed as a defect since it appears in the requirements. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 12Oct 17, 2013 11:34 am My recent experience with owner building is a VCAT case where purchaser did everything right (except selecting right expert) and still bought a lemon. As it happened there were substantial defects in building work, building inspector failed to pick up non complying work, owner builder's section 137B report also failed to list all the defects and so did pre purchase inspection report. However pre purchase inspector is off the hook because under AS 4349.1 he is not required to comment on compliance. My expert evidence assisted owner in getting award as compensation for defective building work. I have nothing against owner builders and it is good that people do so but if you are a property buyer there is almost nothing riskier than buying off the plan or buying from an owner builder. Expert advice is essential and if you skip it. Well? Read my blogs of real cases. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 13Oct 19, 2013 6:14 pm building-expert ... but if you are a property buyer there is almost nothing riskier than buying off the plan or buying from an owner builder. Can you please qualify why it is so risky buying from an OB in Vic, as opposed to a registered builder? Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 14Oct 19, 2013 8:16 pm qebtel building-expert ... but if you are a property buyer there is almost nothing riskier than buying off the plan or buying from an owner builder. Can you please qualify why it is so risky buying from an OB in Vic, as opposed to a registered builder? No problem qebtel. Before becoming registered builder in Victoria you will be required to have appropriate and relevant education and experience and to display competencies as below ( lifted from BC web page): Domestic Builder Registration The competencies herewith are specific to the registration category and class of building practitioner, for the purpose of registration with the Building Practitioners Board, under section 170 of the Building Act 1993. Business management Knowledge of: • business planning• cash flow budgets• basic accounting principles• employment law• contractors law• communication practice • organisational skills• conflict resolution• problem solving• human resource management• occupational health and safety • insurances– professional practice– employees– domestic building contract• information technology• quality assurance systems • self-development principles.Ability to:• implement financial strategy• interpret accounting documents• use costing information • prepare income and expenditure projections• manage business taxes• monitor financial performance. Building technology Knowledge of:• Australian Standards• Building Code of Australia (BCA) 2005• local council requirements• general construction technology terms and methods• Victorian Building Commission’s Standards and Tolerances. Building work management (operational) Knowledge of and ability to:• administer a domestic building contract• establish a building site• apply scheduling methods• apply stock control principles• apply quality control to building works. Knowledge of:• principles and law of contract• building contracts and contract documents• contract administration• dispute resolution• insurances• tendering and estimating• quality concepts• time management. Building work management (supervision) Knowledge of:• insurance claims• tender preparation and documentation, estimating and preparation of a bill of quantities • occupational health and safety issues at the worksite and the workplace• hazard assessment and control• site induction program • site responsibilities of various personnel at a worksite• occupational health and safety principles and practices• roles of site managers and supervisors• establishment and ongoing site maintenance • scheduling• communication• purchasing and record flow. Legislation Knowledge of:• Building Act 1993• Building (Interim) Regulations 2005• Domestic Building Contracts Act 1995• Domestic Building Contracts and Tribunal (General) Regulations 1996 To be an owner builder, you will not require to satisfy the above or any competencies So if you are buying from an owner builder you will not know about his/hers competencies therefore the risk. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 15Oct 19, 2013 11:20 pm You gave me a good laugh. 90% of the above 'competencies' does not affect the quality of the house whatsoever. From what I have seen the average owner built house is of higher quality than the project builders. Nonetheless, when you buy a house, judge the house on its merits, not whether it was built by an owner builder or house 24855 of 26384 from builder X. You can have both minor and major issues with a house built by a OB or 'Master Builder'. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 16Oct 21, 2013 10:47 am Agree with JB1's comment above 100%. Building expert, you have been to VCAT many times with grievances against reg builders. You know as well as anyone, having a formal qualification in their competency does not guarantee the consumer against slipshod work. The risk is just as great, whether OB , or reg builder. Caveat emptor at all times. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 17Oct 21, 2013 2:52 pm qebtel Agree with JB1's comment above 100%. Building expert, you have been to VCAT many times with grievances against reg builders. You know as well as anyone, having a formal qualification in their competency does not guarantee the consumer against slipshod work. The risk is just as great, whether OB , or reg builder. Caveat emptor at all times. You are right about caveat emptor and that competence does not guarantee performance but then lack of it does not either. JB1 is also right when he says" You can have both minor and major issues with a house built by a OB or 'Master Builder'." In practice I have seen some very good owner builds and some very poor professional builds and vice versa. I was talking about relative risk: (for the property buyer) 1 Professional builder not performing, against 2 Amateur builder not performing Amateur builder has a bigger burden to overcome (lack of knowledge, training and experience) therefore the risk has to be higher. The risk of something slipping past because he does not know what to look for. So I don't agree when you say " The risk is just as great" Yes qebtel, caveat emptor. Foremost Building Expert in Australia,assisting with building problems/disputes, building stage inspections,pre-contract review advice for peace of mind 200 blogs http://www.buildingexpert.net.au/blog Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 18Oct 21, 2013 11:33 pm Just anothers thing to add re the skill set of avregistered builder. You dont actually need any of those skills to build a house for profit. It is perfectly legal for a registered builder to submit thevplans on behalf of another unexperienced person for a negotiate feem Even if the person runing the business holds the licences they are not usually the one building your house. Re: Owner Build - Inspection Report Issues 19Oct 22, 2013 9:49 am Perhaps I used the term owner-builder incorrectly? I don't mean that this person physically built the house, I mean that he employed other tradesmen to do so, but, it wasn't done via one of the large builders like Metricon etc. Anyway we did end up putting in a formal offer for this house after a lot of research and calls to the various inspectors/surveyors to clear up any concerns we had. There are a few things we may touch up/add/fix. I'll post here when we move in (Feb 14) and have lived in the house for a bit to see how it feels with a bit of time there. I'm sure we will notice some things when living in it of course. Currently we are looking at getting an alarm system, connecting the catchment tank to the internal water facilities, and a few other tasks and just speccing out their costs. Sorry but you have a crap builder. Probably too late now. For our last build I only spoke to builders who would allow me easy access (at no cost). I used my own sparky… 10 7291 If so what were the "special circumstances" under which it was granted? "Note: If the development consent is for 'dual occupancy' an owner-builder permit can only be… 0 10929 Waiting for the interest rates to go down is also waiting for the building prices to go up, you will likely lose. Perhaps you can get the builder to lock up stage, but… 4 2527 |