Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Jun 26, 2013 11:03 pm Wondering if someone could give me some advise if we should O/B or builder as price received House - Size 30.83sq Vernadah Size - 5.25sq Garage - Size - 5.27sq Alfresco Size 3.3 sq Total House Size - 44.65 Builder has quoted us 4 bdrm, plus study house, 2 bathroom plus power room, kitchen with 3 x 1.5 butler pantry The house is country style house with verandas House - 9ft ceiling, butler pantry to have kitchen sink, linen cupboard, Upgrade shower to 2 mt, granite 40mm bench tops to kitchen, bathrooms, 2 french aluminium french doors, electric upright cook top Price $323k ( does not include verandah/alfresco decking, driveways, electrical, or carpet) options available are wormy chestnut timber polished flooring $25,854 all rooms except b/rm Upgrade double glazed windows - $7K Supply and install log fire with gloss painted side cabinet $9k Is this reasonable or a good price? Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 2Jun 27, 2013 9:02 am Hi Jewel740, Welcome to the forum. Does the price you have listed include everything bar the decking, driveways, elec and carpet? Site costs? If so then I think a build of that size with 9ft ceilings and the other inclusions you have listed seems fairly cheap. We have just finished owner building a house of similar size to what you have planned - country style, 9ft ceilings, cedar windows, timber floorboards etc and it has cost us roughly $350K without the driveway (and I would list our inclusions as "basic"....ie: basic kitchen, basic fittings) If you are planning to OB and do most of the work yourself you will save more, but if you are like us and plan to subbie most of it out then I really don't think you will save too much by OBing (we paid roughly $80K to trades - we supplied all the gear, so that $80K is pure labor)...... I also must add the stress and time involved with OBing is more than you would ever anticipate before you start. Either way you decide to go I wish you all the best. Lyndall Owner Building on 1800sqm Sanity Intact so far Locked up March 2012 Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 3Jun 30, 2013 11:28 am Hi Jewel 740, Owner building can be very stressful and end up costing you more money than if you got a builder to do it all for you. In the current market you can buy an already established home a lot cheaper than you can build one. The next best option is to use a volume builder to build a project home. They are very competitive at the moment and you can get some great deals as long as you don't make any changes. Now all that doom and gloom aside and you still decide to owner build then this is what you need to do. 1.Speak to a building professional such as a Project manager or architect. Initial consultation is usually free. 2.Speak to local real estate to understand the type of market you are building in so you don't over-capitalise. 3.Do your homework. This will take some time but it will be worth it. This means you need to totally plan and I mean totally plan your project from start to finish before you start spending any money. If you are getting a loan and I assume you will be then the banks will require this sort of detail. Most OB's are regarded as high risk. NAB are the only bank in recent times that understands the OB and the use of project management on your project. You should start by heading to my website and downloading all my free spreadsheets and current cost estimates. This is a great starting point for you. At the end of your research you will know whether to proceed as an owner builder or not. I have had many clients succesfully owner build their dream and they have all been able to beat their estimates. This means the money stays in your pocket and not the builder. Good luck with it www.greenifyconsulting.com.au Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 4Jul 02, 2013 6:48 pm The price seems reasonable. If you're building a basic quality house, owner building doesn't save you money. However you can save a bit if you want a quality house with what project huilders call 'extras' (which to me is essential). Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 5Jul 02, 2013 10:33 pm I really don't think it is that simple. Firstly disagree with you JB1. We have built OB 5 houses. The standard has increased on each, and we have saved substantial amounts OB. Whether to Ob or not comes down to whether or not you believe you can be proficient in organising all the trades and associated work required to build the house. Homework and research is the best you can do to avoid cost overruns, even then it may not be preventable. There is a large amount of costing to be down before a build, and be it at your own risk if you don't. Settlement 1/2/12 New Shed 23/3/12 Slab poured 27/3/12 Frame complete 4/5/12 Roof complete 1/6/12 LOCKUP 29/6/12 Our new build blog http://kareenhillsownerbuild.blogspot.com/ Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 6Jul 03, 2013 3:37 pm I guess we'll have to agree to disagree delatite13. If you look at the basic project houses, i.e. 20 sq homes for $150k, it's not even worth owner building it for that price. However it will be a poor quality home with no redeeming features. I've only completed 1 OB house to a high standard, and yes it's much cheaper than what I got quoted from a custom builder, as builders charge like a wounded bull for the upgrades I deemed necessary. If $323k gets you a quality 40sq home, then I wouldn't bother owner building. Speaking to suppliers and tradies for my OB house, the builders make nothing on a basic home, they only make money on the upgrades. i.e. Top of the range Boral bricks and white mortar which would cost me $2,000 and $400 extra, would be $8,000 and $1,500 extra respectively from a project builder. Terracotta roof tiles which cost $3,000 more will be $10,000 extra. etc. I still maintain you won't save money owner building a basic home compared to a standard cookie cutter home. Once you start upgrading and want better quality materials, then OB starts to make sense, because by and large, project builders build poor quality homes. How can they, given their low prices (on standard non-upgraded homes) corners have to be cut somewhere. I'll OB again (and have found it rewarding) but I don't think it's for everyone.... I believe $323k isn't a bad price if the house is of reasonable quality. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 7Jul 06, 2013 6:42 pm Hi there, I haven't OB'd before, but the prices I got from builders was at cheapest 10K per SQ - which is at mostly basic quality with some upgrades to Kitchen and floors. In your case the builder is charging a bit below 10K per square, but at a very basic quality. Additionally, electrical, driveways, and carpets, will add potentially another 50K. So you will be at around 10K per square again. If you understand the trade a little, and what's involved, and have managed small building projects before or undertaken similar work (i.e. dealing with all kind of people and tradies, and have thick nerves and good organiasing skills), then I would recommend OBd, as I would think that you can save a good 50-100K or at least get a superior quality for the same price. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 8Jul 08, 2013 11:29 am Simple you save money if you do more. The disadvantage is your skills and if you are actually prepared to do things. Personally I had a house extension,30m2 area job, with quotes starting from $75,000 up, as an owner builder I did it for $35,000. BUT I did everything I could by myself. Find out what you can do or to manage people that can do As an owner builder myself, it comes down to you and if you are prepared to the work. You don't have swing a hammer, you can save a lot of money by just managing the builders, material etc The other thing is use quotes from a few builders, let them know that you are talking to other builders, at least one other and make sure they are not working together. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 9Jul 09, 2013 8:19 am JB1 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree delatite13. If you look at the basic project houses, i.e. 20 sq homes for $150k, it's not even worth owner building it for that price. However it will be a poor quality home with no redeeming features. I've only completed 1 OB house to a high standard, and yes it's much cheaper than what I got quoted from a custom builder, as builders charge like a wounded bull for the upgrades I deemed necessary. If $323k gets you a quality 40sq home, then I wouldn't bother owner building. I completely agree with the above. Some project builders in major cities have very low prices already. You can easily build a reasonable size house for under $200k with them. I don't believe any owner builder will be able to do it cheaper or even close to this, unless he is doing 70-100% of work himself. In my opinion OB worth it if at least any of the following applies: - There are no cheap project builders in your area (our case) - You want much better (higher quality) house than the basic one (our case) - You want non-standard design / or use of non-standard materials (our case) - You will be doing some works yourself (our case) - You do have substantial cash deposit (at least 25-35% of project cost) and you are reasonably organised person and good at budgeting (our case) So for us OB was easy and right choice, but I can tell you that if we lived in Adelaide/Melbourne/Sydney we would definitely go with project builders with medium-level specs. You cannot beat that value, imo. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 10Jul 09, 2013 10:09 pm Hi Jewel 740 We are currently owner building in WA. The house is 280m2 with a 40m2 alfresco and 35m2 of verandah under the one roof line and a separate 70m2 games room, so in total 425m2 or about 45sq. The house is timber frame 120mm external and 90mm internal with scyon linea external cladding and colour bond roof. Fit out is above standard with three bathrooms all with double vanities, methven mixers, ceaser stone through out. We also have ducted air, ducted vacuum, 5kw PV system 8 tv points, 24 data points driveway, concrete to verandahs and alfresco, paint, floor coverings, insulation to external, internal an ceilings as well as anticon to the roof and E Glass through out. We are currently finishing off the gyprock and So far we are on budget for 400k including 35K in earthworks ad septic. We decided to owner build because as others have mentioned we are building with different materials as the norm in WA is double brick and and cost of extra with the project builders was extremely excessive as well as the fact that we are able to change our design as we build to suit ourselves where as all builders understandably charge for every small change. Overall I don't think you could build a standard home anywhere near the price of a project builder an I can not stress enough to budget, budget, budget as well as the time evolved. Our budget has blown out but it has been due to adding extra size to the building and upgrading of the fit out to what we want. As for finance we were fortunate enough to be able to fund the build ourselves but I did speak to the bank about finance for pool shed and some extras but even owning the land and the building to the current stage of the build an having enough to complete they would not count the building it self as an asset until I had a certificate of occupancy and wanted detailed costings of everything from an independent building assessor. I do not handle red tape very well so they will have to wait awhile. Hope this helps. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 11Jul 14, 2013 3:56 pm Hi All, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things just in case you want to be an OB. You will need at least 40% deposit if you want the bank to lend you money. Banks don't like using land as security so forget using the equity in your land to secure your house mortgage. You will definitely get more bang for your buck going OB in terms of quality. You also have ultimate control over the PC item puchases. On line auctions will save you heaps. If you have your own money then OB all the way....but manage it properly. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 12Jul 14, 2013 6:35 pm I'm OB here. ugh. lol Nonna's Nest House set for completion November 2013 Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 13Jul 15, 2013 11:06 am delatite13 Whether to Ob or not comes down to whether or not you believe you can be proficient in organising all the trades and associated work required to build the house. Homework and research is the best you can do to avoid cost overruns, even then it may not be preventable. There is a large amount of costing to be down before a build, and be it at your own risk if you don't. Agree with this 100%. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 14Jul 26, 2013 12:10 pm Hi all, This is my first post on this forum so I'll introduce myself firstly. I'm 26, I live in Melbourne and I am about to embark on my 5th house which will be a double storey townhouse in Nunawading. I purchased the rear block from the vendor and unlike typical rear blocks this has direct access to the street which drew me to this property. I purchased my first place in East Melbourne, a small studio which renovated slightly. I leveraged that place a couple of years later to undertake a dual development occupancy development in Greensborough and then another one in Mooroolbark too. To date, I have owner built everything and have been improving as a builder with every property I have undertaken. My hope is to become a FT builder once I obtain my building license and finish the diploma of building and construction management having recently completed the certificate IV at HIA. My question regarding my upcoming development is whether I should OB this Nunawading property too. I am still very much a FT Business Analyst and managing a site from this role can get a little bit stressful as I am not able to be onsite everyday however from a quoting and research perspective I have the ability to do this in my down time. I had an estimator look into this project as I have not done a double storey to date and he came in at a believed to be conservative figure of 311k to build the house including GST. I found this to be higher and consulted a builder who quoted me at 239k inc GST. This has lead me down the track of whether I should take on a builder for just this project or should I build it myself hoping I can come in under the builder’s price. I also want to become further experienced in the building game so that when I front the board I have as much experience as possible. However, I don't want to be out of pocket just so I can gain the further experience in building this project especially I given I will still gain a percentage of experience if I work closely with the builder. I know there is a lot to weight up, but I am wondering if anyone else has been in a similar position and can help me decide on my decision? Cheers, Mykie Impossible Is Nothing Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 15Aug 03, 2013 2:07 pm JB1 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree delatite13. . Actually no, I agree with delatie13, but I disagree with you. Dont presume to speak on behalf of eveyrone on this forum. There are people here who have saved up to 40% on house builds. As I have said before it is difficult to achieve for those who are not savvy across the industry and are not hands on, but big savings are there for the clever and tenacious OB's. JB1 If you look at the basic project houses, i.e. 20 sq homes for $150k, it's not even worth owner building it for that price. However it will be a poor quality home with no redeeming features. Wrong. I can build one of those for 90K as an OB. And why would it be poor quality? Maybe if the site supervisor is useless, and thats your job as an OB. Whether it has redeeming features is the say so of the person building - one mans trash is anothers treasure. JB1 Speaking to suppliers and tradies for my OB house, the builders make nothing on a basic home, they only make money on the upgrades. that is utter nonsense. So you think they are buolding for free? lol Do you really think builders are going to say to you "yeah mate we are raking it in because of the exorbitant prices the buyer is paying"? Tradies always cry poor, then drive home to their McMansion down by the bay. JB1 I still maintain you won't save money owner building a basic home compared to a standard cookie cutter home. Well you're wrong . IT can be done. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 17Aug 04, 2013 2:07 pm JB1 What's with the rudeness? What rudeness? just because someone disagrees with you? Bit childish I would say, JB1 20sq home for $90k? 175 sq m, which is close enough to 20 squares EDITED by Forum Support Your "facts" are just a little too unfactual, thats all. Builders make nothing on a house? Really, you've lost credibility with that statement. YOUR point of view of how building can be done is not everyone's points of view, sorry. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 18Aug 05, 2013 7:34 pm greenify Hi All, I just wanted to clarify a couple of things just in case you want to be an OB. You will need at least 40% deposit if you want the bank to lend you money. Greenify - we went thru NAB and borrowed 80% against the land and 80% of construction costs. We got 3 quotes for every big ticket item and researched for 12 months. NAB is the only one who do lend up to 80% of construction costs. It's not hard to get all the paperwork together, it just takes time. Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 19Aug 17, 2013 7:01 pm Popping in here to remind all posters that personal attacks will not be tolerated on this Forum. Play nicely people. Deemaree Kyndylan Capers: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=46852 My blog: http://www.sufficientlysufficient.blogspot.com/ Re: OWNER BUILD OR BUILDER 20Sep 13, 2013 5:31 pm qebtel JB1 What's with the rudeness? What rudeness? just because someone disagrees with you? Bit childish I would say, JB1 20sq home for $90k? 175 sq m, which is close enough to 20 squares EDITED by Forum Support Your "facts" are just a little too unfactual, thats all. Builders make nothing on a house? Really, you've lost credibility with that statement. YOUR point of view of how building can be done is not everyone's points of view, sorry. How about you post some specs and photos of your $90k 175sqm house? Sorry but you have a crap builder. Probably too late now. For our last build I only spoke to builders who would allow me easy access (at no cost). I used my own sparky… 10 9819 If so what were the "special circumstances" under which it was granted? "Note: If the development consent is for 'dual occupancy' an owner-builder permit can only be… 0 14061 |