Considering OB'ing our small extension

Hi Folks

We are planning to do a very basic extension to our weatherboard house in Bayside suburbs, Melbourne.
The back wall of our house currently comprises of our living area and one bedroom.
We want to extend the current living area by approx. 1.5m to the back, and 1.5m to the side (into the existing driveway). And we want to add another room to the back of the existing bedroom (approx. 4m x 3m). Would also require one small internal wall as a walkway through existing bedroom to new bedroom. So all up, we are looking at a small extension of approx. 32sqm comprising two square rooms.
Would be on stumps - not slab.

Back of the house already has a flat roof extension so we would just continue the flat roof.
Access is excellent, land is flat/level.

We are just about at the stage of trying to get some figures from some builders - need to find some builders that we can talk to.

We think that even though this is a fairly straight forward job - the cost of getting it done will either be out of our budget, or even if within budget, ultimately it will prohibit us from having any leftover $$ to then get the deck done and our outdoor area. So..... we are toying with the idea of OBing.

Thing is - "handy" we are not!
What we do have - is the time available to undertake/oversee the 'project'.
And I am generally thorough and good at planning and organising so that is something on my side - I hope.

(Hubbies dad, who has done a few of his own weatherboard extensions over the years - reckons it's a "piece of p......" - but he is not in a position to help us (lives in the country and is unable to travel much). So at this stage we really don't have much support or guidance.

Would we be mad to consider OBing the job?
Is it achievable if we are prepared to put in the time required and really do our homework?
Will it ultimately save us $$ by doing it ourselves (the key reason we would undertake OB project).
Anyone out there done a simple extension (as an OB) and able to indicate rough costs per sqm.

I know friends of friends who OB their extension in the Eastern Suburbs of Melbourne - so will try to make contact with them and pick their brain about the process. But just thought I would ask in here if it might be something we could possibly tackle?

What do you guys think?

HHCIB

If you have the time and talent for planning and organising you have the essential ingredients for OB
If you want to be adventurous, learn, make mistakes and progress there is no better way.
If you are young and brave go for it!

Thanks for the vote of confidence Building Expert.
Good to know someone is encouraging - was expecting everyone to tell us we had rocks in our head (which remains to be seen ).
The other big question though - do you expect we could save a buck or two from going down this path? This would be the main reason for OBing if we went ahead.

Thanks again.

HHCIB

The main attraction of OB is to save money that otherwise you would be paying the builder (you become the builder) but what you will save will depend on how efficient you are and providing you don't make too many costly blunders (many builders blunder). It's a steep learning curve and you have to do homework and research.

Seeing as it sounds like a simple extension - being two square rooms, weatherboard house , flat roof and on stumps means your FIL is right - a piece of cake even for owner builders. You should be able to save quite a few thousand dollars by doing it yourself.

Stewie

Thanks again Building Expert and StewieD...... am feeling quite heartened by the positive encouragement.
Of course, doesn't mean that we will pull this thing off - but means that we can at least consider to attempt it, and that is a bit of a load off - especially if our actual building quotes come in a bit higher than we would like.

We will still need to ask around and do a lot of research ......but if we decide to go ahead and OB (and once we have our OB permit and our council approved plans), how do we know what stages we need to undertake things? Starting from needing to get any engineers reports or the like - through to the actual building process??

Is it just a case of picking other people's brains - or is there any kind of 'building checklist' available (in here, or anywhere else)? How do people (like us) go about actually doing things in the right order. I'd hate to do one thing only to realise that we should have done something else first (As Building Expert says - need to avoid blunders as much as possible).

Is there anything to help us on that front or do we just need to ask, and ask again (and cross our fingers that we don't leave anything out or stuff anything up)?

HHCIB

you said your fil had done a few extensions he can help emensley although not physically pick his brain thoroughly he will be your best asset and yes ask loads of questions before you start ask tradies what they need done before they get on site most will tell you make sure your plumbing or frame ect is done before I get there ive found they rather tell you then turn up and your not ready because you didn't know a job had to be done. yours is pretty straight forward so shouldn't be too bad and remember the only stupid question is one you havnt asked yet good luck

Thanks BingoShelley - started reading your thread recently. You are certainly well and truly experienced 'OB'ers' so am chuffed that you have popped in here to lend your reassurance to the fact that we could potentially take this on - with a lot of our own research and added help and guidance.

Thing is, DP and I had a good chat tonight - and although we haven't got any builders quote back yet (and in fact, have only approached one at this stage), we are feeling more and more like OBing might be the way to go.

However, even though - so far - the general consensus is that we would save $$ by OBing.... we would still need to quantify our expenses to make sure we can afford it and to determine just how much we could potentially save - or more to the point, how much it will potentially cost. No point ploughing ahead just on the basis that "it will be cheaper than using a builder" - we still need to know get an estimate to budget for. So, how do we figure that out???????

Could we roughly use a percentage of of the builders costs? Could we get their quote and say - well, we could expect to OB for 50% of that price - or 75%? - or 40%?.

Or is there a guide where we could work out costs? I tried looking at the spreadsheets that Greenify has mentioned, but I don't have Excel so am unable to open the file (will try from work next week). But overall, where or how can I work out a budget for OBing this thing?

HHCIB

Hi,
Can't guarantee it, but a free app, actually a Suite of Apps, maybe be able to read the Excel sheets. Think it's called Open Office. Try a web search...
It may not deal with Macros.
PC and Mac from memory.
Try this link. http://www.openoffice.org/

the thing is only you can work your budget if your going high spec it costs more low spec it costs less we done all the work so it worked out about $1000 sqm but we made mistakes that cost us plus we lived in bush so transport costs were a killer I cant see you going over 30 grand max its a small job but depends on how much you guys want to be hands on really. you will be shocked with the builders quotes but go get them

Thanks Tezzab - will look into that.
I should double check that the reason I can't open Greenify's sheets is due to excel - might even be a PC/Mac thing (I have a mac)?? Anyway, as I said, will investigate further - thanks heaps for letting me know - appreciate it.

Bingo Shelley - thanks again for the info. But I'm not sure I understand entirely what you mean. Are you saying that you can't really quantify/cost an OB job up front? Only stab at what sounds reasonable based on the finishes we desire? We will be going 'middle of the road' in terms of finishes and 'specs' (I guess). Certainly nothing flash and fancy - but also not going as basic as can be for the sake of cost.

We will contact FIL again soon. Hubbie isn't exactly super close to him so we aren't in regular contact (will be if we go ahead with this )- but he will definitely help out as much as he can. If he can help us with working out how much materials we will need etc - then that in itself will be a big help.

Not sure how hands on Hubbie can be. He is certainly more than willing to help and do whatever he can - but he would need guidance and instruction every step of the way. Or, we might take the path of engaging everyone on our behalf - and anything along the way that we can do ourselves, then we will??

We are thinking of getting hubby to do the short OB course at one of the Tafe's. I know it's not required to get an OB licence here in Vic..... but wondering if it would be of huge benefit?? (or not worth it??)

Thanks for everyone's input - really appreciating it so that we can gather as much info as possible before we decide. So any info anyone wants to throw our way - keep it coming.

Cheers
HHCIB

ok what I ment was you cant ask here how much something is going too cost as you could want $1000 sqm tiles and $5000 eco friendly insulation batts so it really does depend on what budget you have too what you can afford and try and get somewhere close too what you can afford. from what ive heard about the ob courses complete waste of time its about the safety and legal side of things not about how too hit a nail straight.. safetys easy "be careful" don't leave your site messy mess creates accidents ..legal side read everything 4 times never sign if its not right and get builders insurance before you begin building they will not give it to you once you begin...btw hubby still cant hammer a nail straight lol

Hi howhardcanitbe,
If you want my spreadsheets as a cost guide I can PDF them for you. You won't have the functionality of an excel spreadsheet though.

If I had my time over i would definitely OB our job... but it really is chicken and egg stuff. Now that I have been through it I am that much the wiser. As for not being able to hammer a nail straight..... I still cant, you don't need to be handy to OB. Find a good chippie and the rest will follow, good tradies know each other and will certainly let you know if you have a bad one on the job.

Once you have all your plans in place get some quotes, small local builders, definitely not a volume one. There is one well known company out there that have recently been named in parliament that you must steer clear of.

Ok, thanks for clarifying BingoShelley. I get what you mean now. And yes, it makes sense that nobody in here could tell me how much my job would cost - I wouldn't expect them too. More just very rough ball park figures to know if this is something we could even bother contemplating and narrowing down.
Yes, I have heard about the OB courses being a bit useless. We would not have expected them to teach us anything about hammering nails per se, but thought there might have been practical tips on OBing and what we would like - a broad guide to the process. Will still keep that idea floating as a possibility. Thanks for your input once again.

Greenify - that would be fabulous. If we then decide to go further, we will look into getting excel versions. Thank you so much - appreciate your time (and in general, your generosity in offering these freely). I will PM you my email address.

Sceen7 - thanks for more encouragement - especially on the fact that we don't need to be handy (because we certainly aren't ). It's more just getting our head around whether we really think we can do this (and making sure we can afford it without compromising other important family things) - and basically, getting a grip on where we would start.

OK.... next question....... if we did undertake this...... would one of us need to be home every day to oversee everything? Or is it the sort of thing you can organise each morning - make sure things are set/organised for the day - then head off to work?? Taking into account that some days you might be required to be home all day if certain trades are expected later in the day or perhaps come home early to ensure certain tasks have been completed before the next day - or whatever the case may be. But in general - is the OBer required to be 'on site' all day/every day?? Or is it possible to attend our other job?? (Hubbie works 'by appointment' so it is easy for him to not take appointments for a set amount of days - or even weeks - but if he doesn't work, he doesn't get paid - so would be handy if we knew he could maybe work a couple of days - or most half days - or something along those lines. It would be harder for him to cancel appointments if he actually books them - but he could if he had to. I work 2/3 days a week so have a couple of days off.
So yes, just trying to figure out what would be required in terms of our time - and if somebody needs to be here full time, whether Hubbie and I could 'job share' the role??

Hubbie and I doing some serious "soul searching" on the whole thing at the moment.

Really appreciate everyone's willingness to help and lend advice. THANK YOU.

HHCIB

we used a full service builder but they allowed us to bring some of the trades in, I used my own sparkie cabinet maker tiler and chippie for parts of the build that were renovation rather than new build. That said I was able to be onsite every morning and ended up pretty much SS the whole job.

That said you dont need to be there every second of the day, frustratingly there are days and weeks in our case where nothing happens. In your case being a small job you wont find too many days where you have to hang around. As i said if you get good trustworthy tradies you might hang around to do a bit of laboring but after you have paid for the deliveries like me you might just be in the way. Towards the end of the process you will have to be onsite a bit more as a lot of the final stages require your input. Have a read through some renno threads on here, might be a lot of info to take in but remember, the process is quite slow. Most people like me write more about the dramas than the successes however as you reach the end of almost everybody's threads....they end up with a victory. Have a read of mine, if nothing else its a cautionary tale with a happy ending.

Thanks Sceen..... will read your thread. Is it in the reno section or OB section?
(And sorry, do you mean to read the reno threads in the OB section - or the reno section??)

Oh, and edited my previous post.... that should have read 'soul searching'
"Sole searching" is what you do after you've stepped in..... something .

Ok, one other question to send me to bed with...... with say the chippie. Do you generally engage on an hourly rate or one price to complete the job and leave them to it. Is there a general rule of thumb in that regard.

HHCIB

HHCIB. I'm using Mac OSX 10.4 and Excel 2008 and can open Greenifys spreadsheet. I could save it as an Excel 2004 or earlier if you want and email it to you as an attachment, that way you could use it unlike the pdf.

Stewie

Thanks Stewie D - that would be great too.
But can I still open it/use it if I don't have excel at all on my mac?
We've just never purchased any 'office' software for it.

Really only use it for internet, and up until now, typing the odd letter (for which I just use that basic notepad textedit programme). Pretty basic stuff here

HHCIB

If you don't have Excel , you won't be able to open it plain and simple. For the sake of buying Excel though and then being able to use these excellent spreadsheets , it would be worth it many times over.
You can pick up Excel on ebay for less than $50. Just make sure you get a Mac version compatible with your OS.
Here is a link to some others that are worth having a look at...
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58422

Stewie