Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Jul 01, 2012 3:47 pm Dear experienced forum members, I am after some advice about licences for work on my owner builder site. I am an experienced “handy-man” who has already completed many tasks in my own renovation including rendering, internal stud walls, ceilings and cornice, gyprock, hard wall plastering, restumping, flooring and similar tasks on my own home. I am not a licensed tradie but I am confident and competent on the tools. I am now considering taking on my 150m2 two storey addition in Sydney’s inner west as a very hands-on owner builder. I have both the time and the finances to do this. I understand that I can take on most trades except electrical and plumbing and that, if I employ a tradie in any area, they must be licensed. But what of my unlicensed family and friends? My retired father is also a handyman but he does not hold any trade licence. If he helps me raise the frame on an unpaid basis am I breaking the law? What about a friend who works as a labourer for a builder during the week – he is also not licenced (and does not need to be for his week-day job because his employer is licensed). If I employ my friend and actually pay him money (all declared and above board) to help me on the frame, am I breaking the law? He is not a licensed chippy but I will be paying him money. Is he “deemed” to be my contractor and therefore he must be licensed? Or can I effectively use my owner builder licence and accept the quality/risks of his work myself? Ultimately all the work will be certified to standard by my principal certifying authority. Re: Employing family and friends on an owner build 2Jul 01, 2012 6:43 pm Hi owaaco We are currently doing exactly what you are contemplating. This is our 4th owner build where we, our family is pretty much hands on in most areas of the build. We are the 'registered owner builder' and therefore take full responsibility for obtaining our certificate of occupancy at the end of the build. We therefore need to have faith in all tradesmen we sub contract jobs to and faith in anything we chose to undertake ourselves that it will be up to proper standard at the end. The only 'licensed' tradies we are required to use are the 'Electrician' and the 'Plumber' as they have to issue their certificates of compliance/safety. Our carpenter is a highly qualified but not currently registered builder. We employ him for his knowledge/expertise in the physical construction phases of the build ( site peg out, frame erection and preparation for roofing, cladding and plastering, door frame and door installation, architraving, shelving, etc, etc). We have employed our adult son throughout the build so far as his physical laborer, plus we assist him on site in any way we can, all this saves time and money. We are the organiser/ foreman/site superviser etc - we decide if and when we need each trade and for which tasks. We also shop around sourcing most of our materials for our tradies and ensure they are delivered on site when needed. We were the designers our house, then had it properly drawn up by a professionals, we are also the site cleaners, painters, tilers, insulaters, sound system cable runners, floating floor installers, fencers, decorators, landscapers.....the list goes on. This saves us many thousands of dollars on our build, but does take a lot of time both on site ( virtually every day) and at home (also virtually every day) after hours calculating quantities, pricing, shopping, scheduling deliveries, organising who turns up and in what order, budgeting etc, etc. We also importantly, regularly liaise with our building inspector to ensure we are complying at every stage. If you have the time and passion to commit to your own build, then it is well worth it (many tens of thousands) and very satisfying to boot. Good luck with your build Settlement 1/2/12 New Shed 23/3/12 Slab poured 27/3/12 Frame complete 4/5/12 Roof complete 1/6/12 LOCKUP 29/6/12 Our new build blog http://kareenhillsownerbuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Employing family and friends on an owner build 3Jul 01, 2012 9:52 pm Dear delatite13 thank you for your comment. I appreciate it. I have read your blog and see that you are doing a very big build. Good luck - but I guess at OB#4 you know what you are doing and what you are in for! I see you are in VIC - I am in NSW. I need to do an OB course and will select an online version. I am not sure what the VIC OB regs are, but do you have any advice for good online providers of OB courseware? Re: Employing family and friends on an owner build 4Jul 01, 2012 10:23 pm Howdy. We do not have a "course requirement" that you must attend. All you must do is effectively register with the Building Commission and of course answer a few questions that they want and supply a bit of documentation. Pay the required fee of course and you have an owner builders permit in Vic. You do have to mention that you do have a knowledge of building practices. Certainly is not rocket science. Not to be confused with the "building permit", totally different story. If you have none of this at all do one of the online or attendance courses certainly would be of benefit due to the many pitfalls that can be had. Although you have said that you have had a pretty good experience in a wide range of a lot of the work required. The most common of which is under-estimating the cost of the build, and running out of money. Check this link out and it will tell, you all you need to know in respect to being an owner builder in NSW. http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/Tenan ... ilder.html Settlement 1/2/12 New Shed 23/3/12 Slab poured 27/3/12 Frame complete 4/5/12 Roof complete 1/6/12 LOCKUP 29/6/12 Our new build blog http://kareenhillsownerbuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Employing family and friends on an owner build 5Jul 02, 2012 12:16 pm owaaco; This is my first build and am basically doing everything that delatite13 has said in regards to being responsible for everything, getting involved in anything that you physically can to save money and outsourcing what you cant. I have used my Family to lean on for advise, site manage when im not there (I have a semi-retired bricklayer with no formal qualifications other than having built at least 30 houses start to finish in his time - better than a piece of paper for me!) Not sure where is NSW you are but regarding good courses, I can recommend saferite (google them and they are the first mob to come up) I did both the white card (now known as the WHS card or something like that) and the OB course through this mob. They run the white card course @ Club Marconi @ Bossley Park on Tuesday nights. it goes for 4 or 6 hours form memory When it comes to licensed trades, as far as im aware, the following are the key ones; Plumbing Electrical Engineer Other than that, Brickie; carpenter; concreter; gyprocker; dont need tickets. Even the electrical rough-in doesnt need to have a licence as the electrician has to sign it off (and most wont as they make money on the rough-in, etc etc) You need to make a decision WHO is the certifier. Either the council or a private certifier. They will need to come out to the site and sign off at different stages (the stages will be in your Construction Certificate (CC)) Engineering - this is where I learnt my lesson. My engineer (who will remain nameless due to forum rules - i wish they NEVER worked in NSW again!) over engineered my place to the point that my architect thinks it added $20-$30k to the cost of building. There was no consideration to actually trying to engineer the house outside of applying the maximum allowances for everything. Dont get me wrong, Im happy for a little bit of over engineering but to the point where i needed to put 60 x 2m piers in ground that has clay for a good 8m below ground, EVERYONE has told me that it was too much. but if you dont follow it, they will not certify it. What im saying is that getting a second opinion on the engineering can save you in the long run as they will need to come out at multiple points of construction to give you a certificate (slab before pour, after pour, frames + roof, completion) - without these certificates, they will not pass the house I could keep going but need to get back to work! Hope it helps Sorry but you have a crap builder. Probably too late now. For our last build I only spoke to builders who would allow me easy access (at no cost). I used my own sparky… 10 9820 If so what were the "special circumstances" under which it was granted? "Note: If the development consent is for 'dual occupancy' an owner-builder permit can only be… 0 14070 Waiting for the interest rates to go down is also waiting for the building prices to go up, you will likely lose. Perhaps you can get the builder to lock up stage, but… 4 3659 |