Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum Re: Your Home 21Oct 13, 2011 10:29 am My impression is that OBs often start planning at least some sustainability in their dream homes. Then, as the reality checks, they start compromising and most often sustainability gets sacrificed first. It isn't visible, so unfortunately it often rates lower than appearances in our shallow age. We've managed to build a highly sustainable house, but both I and DW have a very utilitarian outlook and we always choose practical over appearances. So when we were faced with the need to cut corners, we swapped: 2nd bath for the semi-ensuite, fancy tiles for the cheap ones, glass splashback in the kitchen for tiles, LED downlights for CFLs, paved driveway for Gravel Cell, etc, etc. The only sustainability item that we dropped was Grey Water, but that was as much for practical reasons as for financial ones. We ended up with something looking like a modest cottage, both inside and out, but we don't care, as long as it's comfy and cheap to run. We haven't paid for electricity in 8 months, we're very comfy with minimal heating in winter and no A/C in summer. Eat your hearts out McMansioners Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Your Home 23Oct 13, 2011 11:52 am Stewie D To be honest Kristof , I think you can achieve both if you look to the long term and not just the short. Stewie One of the problems of our age is that people seldom look long term. They instead think of the re-sale price, when size, bells and whistles, looks and appearances are much more important than sustainability. I don't recollect what's the average time for living in a house nowadays, I think it's a few years. That's short term, so there's little chance for the return for a significant price premium, needed to make a house sustainable. I wonder if the carbon tax will make any difference. Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Your Home 24Oct 13, 2011 1:06 pm Quote: That's short term, so there's little chance for the return for a significant price premium, needed to make a house sustainable. I wonder if the carbon tax will make any difference. Across Australia, the average length of time we stay in each property we own is 7.5 years for houses and 6.5 years for apartments, according to independent data supplier, RP Data. I agree with you too. The money you have to outlay to install a lot of the sustainable items does not make them a viable option financially no matter how good your intentions unless you are looking at staying put for twenty years or so. I think the only way to do this is to give people incentives like massive rebates on solar power , water tanks etc. The other way and one which I know several federal and state authorities have been looking at is to either make installation of sustainable features mandatory for existing dwellings ( political suicide ) or to make them compulsory whenever someone wants to sell their home. I think all the carbon tax will do is force up the cost of building and renovating to be honest. Stewie Re: Your Home 25Oct 13, 2011 3:21 pm Interesting comments. It is possible to build an attractive sustainable building so I don’t buy the argument that sustainability is sacrificed for "the re-sale price, size, bells and whistles, looks and appearances” Sustainability does not compromise any of these areas if designed and built with thought. The lack of thought is the problem, people generally take the path of least resistance because as a society we have become extremely lazy (both physically and mentally), and there ****** the problem. People would generally prefer to sit on their bums drinking and watching reality TV or sport rather than thinking about creative solutions to the problems they create by living beyond their means (both financially and environmentally speaking). A large part of the problem also ****** with people considering the economics of sustainability as their foremost consideration! There is a lot more to life than money, sadly the world does not agree with me on this point anymore. Simple maths will show that in the short term there is not an 'economic benefit' but in the long term however there is no argument that sustainable building principles bring returns (if it must be measured in financial terms) and that is without factoring in inflation in the energy sector. The "want it now/have it now" mentality prevails and the price of this instant gratification is cheap and nasty project homes that are a rip off for what they are. Credit/debt associated with the instant gratification mentality seriously limits peoples buying power by increasing the long-term cost of their lives, The money paid back on a 30 year mortgage for a single McMansion will buy you 3 of the ugly big things!! I pay cash for every thing, if I can’t afford it I don’t get it till I can. Steve Re: Your Home 26Oct 13, 2011 4:11 pm Stewie D Across Australia, the average length of time we stay in each property we own is 7.5 years for houses and 6.5 years for apartments, according to independent data supplier, RP Data. I agree with you too. The money you have to outlay to install a lot of the sustainable items does not make them a viable option financially no matter how good your intentions unless you are looking at staying put for twenty years or so. Stewie Sustainable items are on thing and I do agree Rebates and incentives are needed in some form but sustainable design can be implemented long beofre that and really costs no more. Things like Orientation, glazing, air flow considerations and of course insulation will have a far greater benefit to the liveability of a home for its entire life. IMO that is much more benefit than just plonking on a Solar PV system will ever give you. It may make people feel better with "Green technology" but if you can use design to use less energy in the first place it makes a lot more sense. https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Your Home 27Oct 13, 2011 7:19 pm Steve Interesting comments. It is possible to build an attractive sustainable building so I don’t buy the argument that sustainability is sacrificed for "the re-sale price, size, bells and whistles, looks and appearances” Sustainability does not compromise any of these areas if designed and built with thought. The problem as I see it isn't the conflict of sustainability with "luxury", appearances, etc, both can be achieved. It is with the people's priorities. Building "eco" can rise the costs by 15%-20%. An average person (in financial terms), who can't afford both, would most likely choose spending that kind of premium on fancy/posh instead of eco. Quote: Credit/debt associated with the instant gratification mentality seriously limits peoples buying power by increasing the long-term cost of their lives, Steve But that's exactly my point! Bells and whistles, blinking lights and such are for instant gratification. Most people though are unwilling to add to the debt burden, by paying extra for a long term benefit from a sustainable house. It would be interesting to know if, and to what extent, the sustainable features influence the re-sale price. I wonder if abybody researched that. Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Your Home 28Oct 13, 2011 8:58 pm kristofw The problem as I see it isn't the conflict of sustainability with "luxury", appearances, etc, both can be achieved. It is with the people's priorities. Building "eco" can rise the costs by 15%-20%. An average person (in financial terms), who can't afford both, would most likely choose spending that kind of premium on fancy/posh instead of eco. I know you have built a Solar Passive design Kris and have also installed a lot of Green Technology but you would also have to agree there are many basic design principals that if followed don't cost one cent extra. Not everything "eco friendly" will add $$ to the build. For example picking a light coloured roof instead of Black, Windows to the North to capture winter sun, minimise westerly windows and place utility rooms on that side of the house and not bedrooms. Place Bedrooms to the Southern side if possible. Windows on the south to also capture sea breezes, even a simple thing like having a bathroom on the West side (instead of say the Southern side) helps keep the room dry / warmer and subsequently reduce mould problems. All so simple but smart things to do They are just a few basic things in the layout that on a cost per m2 basis dont cost one cent extra to do. I know there are many more steps you can (and have) taken but those basics should be near on mandatory. It's just the lack of education with the majority of the buying public, (Coupled with Developers, display home Salesmen that either don't know or don't care) They are just out to sign as many clients as they can to maximise profit. To them it's a business and that's where it ends. It really is an ongoing education campaign which our governments have to lead. Education and the ongoing 5 and now 6 Star build ratings will help over time make things better. To be honest until 12 months ago I knew nothing of this either. The term "Solar Passive" was entirely foreign to me. It was only by going down the OB path I started to talk to a lot of people and educate myself on some basic concepts. In a perfect world that information would be a lot more readily available, taught in schools like we do with recycling and "common knowledge" to the general population. It will take time but IMO will happen. https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=44762 My Owner builder journey extending a 1930's Bungalow Re: Your Home 29Oct 17, 2011 8:33 am My comments about sustainable features adding costs to a build were concerning mostly solar power and water tanks. All the other things already mentioned like orientation , passive heating/cooling , ventilation etc certainly are cost free ( or very low cost ) to implement and should be included in all builds whether new houses, extensions or major renos. Quote: It would be interesting to know if, and to what extent, the sustainable features influence the re-sale price. I wonder if abybody researched that. A couple of real estate agents I've spoken to suggest that these features are certainly more sought after from prospective buyers as utility costs soar and one suggested to me if you have a home up for sale that has all these features make a point of showing them your energy bills for the last year and comparing them to the McMansion down the road. Stewie We already paid for somfy motors for the blinds. The quote above was purely for “pre-wiring” so the blinds company can install the motors and blinds. That’s why we… 5 16276 Thanks mate. Yeah good points! Leaning towards Option 3 to get a bit extra space in the cabinets but not going too crazy high (and expensive). Would require a mini… 13 39718 Broker here - legislation says that every true broker must put the clients best interests before theirs so in theory they must offer you the best options for you on their… 2 46013 |