Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Oct 06, 2010 11:46 pm Like all good plans, our plan to do our extension by year end before bub number 2 comes along in Jan '11 is well and truly out the window. The story so far... We had hoped to turn our modest 3x1 single brick and tile 84m2 house on a 500m2 block into a single storey 4x2 house....and yes, that is not a misprint, single brick...we have the winter power bills to prove it! The plan was for my wife to organise trades/quotes during the week and me materials on weekends. However, with construction drawings only just received and another 2 months for these to get to through council....I reckon it's a fair bet the start date will fall about the same time bub number two comes along. I'm still madly keen to go down the OB path, however I'm getting a little concerned about how much time I need to put into it and how readily I need to make myself available if I am to assume the extra help of my wife is now out of the picture. I am able to be on site for 30mins to an hour in the mornings when tradies are getting started for the day and will be back on site in the evenings to check out the days progress. There will also be the weekends, and of course I can take calls during the day from tradesman, but wont be able to readily get back to sort out any on-site issues during the day. Factors such as tradesman reliability, work quality, weather (although summertime in Perth should be favourable) and my own efforts will of course play a big part in how things work out, but would I be kidding myself that OB is still an option? I would appreciate feedback on other people's experience and how much time and effort was required. I hope I'm not asking one of those 'how long is a piece of string' questions... I've also started trying to get a feel for getting a builder involved to lockup as another option... might have to be the compromise? Attached are the plans and a pic of the house to give a feel for what's involved. (Looks like the file upload didn't work, "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached." Will try posting again soon.) Cheers.. Re: To OB or not to OB... 2Oct 07, 2010 7:04 am you need to upload pics from off site ie www.tinypic.com etc and copy the 'message board link' on to your thread pm raleighfarm, she is doing an OB in nth queensland and she has been FLAT out doing it and she doesnt work full time, other than a full time mum to 5, which is way busier than a full time paid job! viewtopic.php?f=38&t=34534 she will be able to give you first hand knowledge. Re: To OB or not to OB... 3Oct 07, 2010 7:06 am Unless you have extensive experience in project management and vendor contracts. Do not OB Re: To OB or not to OB... 4Oct 07, 2010 9:07 pm Go for it! We've been building an extension onto the rear of our home. We've been building for around 7 months and are now close to completion. We started the planning and approval process when our daughter was 4 months old and we also have a 3 year old son. Whilst I won't pretend it is easy to do this with two little ones in some ways it's great timing as whilst I was on maternity leave I've been able to be here 'on site' most of the time and can deal with issues or requests as they arise. We were lucky to almost complete the extension whilst keeping our original house intact and have had to move out whilst we knocked through. There's obviously not a lot of spare time but time spent breastfeeding is a great time to do google research and planning. The hardest part is probably dragging the kids around to timber yards, tile shops etc etc and having to spend a lot of time on the phone which our two haven't been very tolerant of. All up it's been a lot of hard work but we now have a family home that we are really proud of and that we simply couldn't have afforded to build if we hadn't OB'd. All the best with your two new 'additions'. Re: To OB or not to OB... 5Oct 07, 2010 9:54 pm I have to say I am with Tom and Kylie. We have no experience of OB and both work fulltime. To compensate for this we have hired a project manager to do all the mucking about. It is working well for us. Our project manager keeps telling us that the same problems happen in normal building that happen in OB, just you see it. What I love about OBing: * I get to know my tradies and develop good relationships with them * I get exactly what I want .... and can change my mind! * Somebody isnt taking a massive profit off me ... every cent I spend goes on my house. * I get a better quality of fit out as I am choosing what I want, not what the builders want me to have. * Have been able to do some things that I thought were ridiculously expensive at little or no extra cost. * I pay as I go so I dont have these huge lumps of money going out of the account only to sit in a builders account and earn interest. What I dont like so much: * The building industry ... man it is a cowboy game out there! * Things not moving as quickly as I would like. I wouldnt say 'go for it' without highly recommending that you get quotes on how much it will cost you to do what you want with a builder and then to get an estimation from a professional estimator. Make sure you sort your finances before you start as this can be the headachey bit. Good luck Re: To OB or not to OB... 6Oct 07, 2010 10:37 pm Thanks everyone for the feedback and the encouragement!! tomandkylie and kayandandy, you guys sound like you're both having a ball with it all. You're swinging me back to the OB side of the fence again. The OB option certainly gives you a bit more flexibility, saves a few $$ along the way and you get to learn loads. I've done quite a bit of project management before with my work and have a bit of a schedule I've put together already using MS project so that side of it doesn't daunt me so much...although I still need to get my head around the sequence of things a bit more and the time things take. But I figure once I started getting quotes I will get a better idea of that. I'm amazed at how much quotes can vary....for example we got our sewer connnected to the mains, quotes were $3k to $9k. Everyone seemed competent enough so we took the cheapest and the guy did a top job. We had to get the overhead power and meter box moved to do our extension, so we took the opportunity to go underground....quotes were $1800 to $4000. Once again we took the lowest and the guys did an excellent job. I know it's not always about being the cheapest, but if you builder is going with trades in the middle prize range plus his markup, it certainly adds up. Our plan is to get some quotes to lock up and quotes from tradesman for the OB route and see where we end up. With our building plans sitting waiting for council submission we need to pull out finger out and decide! Here's the house and plan... Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: To OB or not to OB... 7Oct 07, 2010 10:46 pm kayandandy - just curious about the project manager, is he/she doing the running around for tradie quotes and materials and you guys are the OB, ie the PM is not a builder? How much different is it to having a builder versus a project manager and how many hours a week on average would you say the project manager? How/where do you find project managers for extensions? Thanks.. Re: To OB or not to OB... 8Oct 08, 2010 11:56 pm kiwi you need to upload pics from off site ie http://www.tinypic.com etc and copy the 'message board link' on to your thread pm raleighfarm, she is doing an OB in nth queensland and she has been FLAT out doing it and she doesnt work full time, other than a full time mum to 5, which is way busier than a full time paid job! viewtopic.php?f=38&t=34534 she will be able to give you first hand knowledge. Thanks Kiwi . Fresian, I am the afore-mentioned raleighfarm. My 2cents worth. I would have to agree with tomandkyile and kayandandy. Everything they said is exactly what I think/feel too. It is by no means easy to OB and it has possibly been the steepest learning curve ever. However, it is definitely do-able. My recommendation would be to have a costing done. I didn't have one done before I started, it was my own costing and there have been, shall we say, enlargements to the budget I didn't know these types of services even existed. Be wary about banks atm. They are bit tougher with lending to OBs than they were say 12 months ago. Words from my mortgage broker and from my current experience. I guess the best measuring stick for me is that regardless of how tough it has been (I am the SS or PM, whatever you want to call it), if my house burnt down and I had to do it again, I would, no question. RF Build: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=34534 Flooring: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39733 Chat: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=53303 Re: To OB or not to OB... 9Oct 08, 2010 11:58 pm Oh and I have had absolutely no prior experience in anything like this...ever. RF Build: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=34534 Flooring: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39733 Chat: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=53303 Re: To OB or not to OB... 10Oct 09, 2010 1:20 am Hi there Our project manager is our architect and this is the first time he has offered this service so I suspect we are getting silver service! We are paying him to manage to lock up and then I will take over fully. In theory he is supposed to get all the quotes but we have worked in tandem on this. For example I found Onc here who did our SOG as I wanted polished concrete. I found the brickie as he came highly recommended by our chippie. We then made the decision to use all of the trades he normally works with. This has not saved us money but it has generated a lot of goodwill and with OBing goodwill is worth more than dollars in the bank! Whilst I have sourced or been the cause of the sourcing our PM deals with the trades on a daily basis. That is where a PM is invaluable as we both work. We have very clear boundries as there are strict rules on PM and OBing so I pay all the trades direct. PM does not handle any cash and I also negotiate the final contract. He also has a letter that he sends to all trades outlining who the work is for etc. So far so good. The negs about it are it can be frustrating at times when you can see something not travelling so smoothly and the solution is sometime in coming (like these last two weeks .... nothing bloody happening on my house and I fork out $550 pw rent!) however i am not so clever at understanding the building trade and could not be without the services he provides. I am not sure where you are but there are a few people around that do this service. And follow Ralieghfarms advice .... GET AN ESTIMATION FROM A REGISTERED ESTIMATOR!!! Re: To OB or not to OB... 11Nov 20, 2010 8:34 pm Thanks for all the feedback and encouragement. It's been awhile since I last posted so thought it worth an update. We submitted our plans to council a month or so back and since then have been madly getting quotes, both from builders quoting to lock and from tradies so we have an OB estimate. The hardest part is getting tradie quotes. Most people say 1 to 2 weeks and we find 4 or 5 weeks later and half a dozen phone calls we might get something, others just decide they're now too busy. And some of the quotes have been madness, for example the earthworks quotes varied from $6k to $25k. I'm guessing the $25k guy was busy enough and didn't need the work?! The extension is for 120m2 of house, a 30m2 alfresco and a 24m2 carport. It took us a week to pick our jaw up off the floor, but the quotes from builders...and I stress to lockup, varied from $280k to $390k. Then it'll be another $80k to $100k to finish, ie flooring, painting, rendering, kitchen, bathroom, house need re-wiring, yard, etc. We're still waiting for a few more quotes from tradies to know the cost of doing it ourselves, but knocking it over and starting again is starting to look good. Re: To OB or not to OB... 12Nov 20, 2010 9:31 pm Those figures are a bit mind blowing fresian. Don't be too disheartened though. These are not the people for you. We had massively overpriced quotes given to us and we just kept searching (although there were definitely times we thought about packing it in before we even started. Here is some food for thought. Last week we flew our second tradesman up from Brissy (to Cairns) to finish our timber floor. We flew up the first guy and his apprentice to lay the floor, got a local guy to sand and have just had it finished by the second guy. This process saved us almost $2000 on the floors (about 10% cheaper even with 3 return airfares and a week of accommodation). Anyway, the point of what I actually want to say is the fellow who finished the floor pointed out to us that we had a dream/vision about what we wanted, we believed in it and we were able to make it happen. If you really want it to happen, you will find a way. I wouldn't consider us to be confident people or anything special and yet we have built this amazing house that is everything we had hoped for. Ok I will go now, in case you think I am getting a little weird . RF Build: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=34534 Flooring: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39733 Chat: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=53303 Re: To OB or not to OB... 13Nov 21, 2010 11:29 am hi fresian anyone can ob but the question is should anyone ob? well we knew very little coming into our build and its taken way longer then expected (mainly due to no money) but weve done it. ask lots of questions research as much as possible every stage and ask tradies before they come what they need finished for them to start their job. ive found many tradies extremely helpful at telling us what we need done before they get there , although weve had to take on basically every single job ourselves due to lack of money or tradies unavailable when we need the work done. so far the only trades weve used so far are the sparky and the guy who put the tin on our roof. its been fun ,exhilerating,rewarding,overwhelming,terrifying,frustrating and just plain hard work but omg looking at your house and thinking how the hell did we do that is an amazing feeling. would we do it again hell yeah,would we use more tradies next time HELL YEAH lol our house is tiny only 129 sq mtrs but all up its costing us $80 grand our land was only $7500 so we saved a bundle our budget hasnt blown out at all but the quotes do varie alot and i found out that if say a plumber has heaps of work he will quote huge on a job and if your stupid enough to pay it then he will gladly do it. it in no way reflects the quality of workmanship. however this only works on like for like items such as carpentry,plumbing,electrical ect... fittings and fixtures its a different story you basically get what you pay for here although sorcing bargains online often saves you thousands and worth the extra effort. good luck with what you decide but seeing those builders quotes i think the descision has already been made for you guys. stay safe happy building Re: To OB or not to OB... 14Nov 21, 2010 11:36 am +1 for everything that you said Bingoshelley (except we have done very little of the work ourselves) RF Build: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=34534 Flooring: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39733 Chat: viewtopic.php?f=36&t=53303 Re: To OB or not to OB... 15Nov 21, 2010 5:15 pm Raleighfarm +1 for everything that you said Bingoshelley (except we have done very little of the work ourselves) thx rf and you guys have done amazing you may not have done the physical work but the mental works just as challenging stay safe happy building Re: To OB or not to OB... 16Nov 30, 2010 10:18 pm I'm also starting a new owner builder project (whole house) and have also hired a project manager who was a previous builder and worked for a few years for one of a project home builders. He has a lot of reliable contacts and has been very good so far, even installing my retaining walls for me. If you're busy I'd certainly consider hiring a project manager and they can save you a lot of time and headache given they have access to good trades. I have a few names if you want to PM me. The HIA contract, in the term & conditions section states that "Commencment" is deemed when the drainage is started or the piers are dug or the slab is formed up (incase… 2 6174 DIY, Home Maintenance & Repair But if it is a ground level open pit, then it is not a charged system. No surprises there. The pipes have obviously been altered and there would be a reason for this.… 3 31280 I work with owner, he/she is my man on the ground and I instruct them when to visit the site and take photos and I have other tools in the bag. 4 15258 |