Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 41Jun 03, 2010 12:05 pm thanks guys for your input. According to the Aus Timber Flooring Assoc, comparing a few finishing options, it is suggested that water-based P/U delivers everything but the 'richness' of the timber. And the richness of timber is why people spend so much time, effort and money to put in solid timber floors in the first place! I can understand using it in a high-traffic public place, but for someone's home where the owner might be proud of their work, why would you risk the finish? However, if the finish is still pretty good, the other aspects really weigh in, in favour of the water-based option my source doc: http://www.timber.org.au/resources/%7B3 ... nishes.pdf I haven't made up my mind, and i'm inexperienced in the field, so i'm doing my best to weigh it up with the balance of sensible and well-supported information. Convince me Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 42Jun 03, 2010 12:49 pm Hmmmm ... I like light colours, so that goes for timber too. If quality and hardness were all the same, I would not think twice and would go for Tassie Oak - 'cos it's the lightest ... but it's not hard enough Grey IB is great, but just a bit too dark for me Tossing between tallowwood and blackbutt ... on pics, bbutt very often looks quite orange - and that's the look I'd hate. Twd seems a bit more "tame" in colour ... I guess it's also the luck of the draw - some bbutt is absolutely beautiful and light. Suppliers never want to commit to exact specific type of bbutt (like New Englad or WA or others) ... so just being cautious there I guess. Anyway, with Bona water based ... I wonder why do they market it as being for for high traffic areas? Does it mean that oil based ones are not good enough?? And can anyone explain why doesn't it deliver the 'richness' of the timber?? I would have thought that it actually does - but only the non-yellowing types (if there are any!!) - because all I'm after is a medium gloss look with a coating which is completely transparent. If wb ones are like that, shouldn't that deliver the true timber look (and richness)? Actually, come to think of it - some years ago when we freed our beaut pine floors from carpet and sanded and polished them, they put the first coat on and it was completely transparent! And I was thinking because that's exactly what my little heart was hoping for. And then, the next coat spoiled it all - it was somehow orange/honey !! So, maybe the first coat was some kind of sealer??? All I know that the top coat was solvent based poly/u. MelbReno, can you share a bit of what your pro guy told you this morning? What finish? Does it require sealing before the finish? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 43Jun 03, 2010 2:18 pm Sorry Lex, I didn't have anyone around this morning, must have been someone else... As for timber choices, have you looked at messmate, stringybark? They might give you the lighter colour you're after. Would certainly deliver an authentic/original colour for an older house in Victoria, as this was the local timber that was extensively used. We were also told to think about how much lighting the room/house gets. Plenty of sunshine will help a darker floor not be too overpowering, while a darker house might appreciate lighter floors. And lighter colour on the walls helps lift the darker floors from being to overpowering... Cheers Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 44Jun 03, 2010 4:31 pm Lex, I think that was me (who had the pro around this morning). With Bona Traffic Three coats are applied with the first being a sort of primer/base the next two finishing the job. Two factors affect the type of finish you get - matt or satin, high gloss not being available as a product but obtainable through application. First there are different grades of satin and second the thickness of the coat applied. A fourth coat will give a greater gloss if that is what one wants. I rang the Bona people and asked about an amateur doing it. They agreed it could be done but recommend you use their applicator for best results and second the guy said the most difficult part was getting the application rate correct as varying thickness of coat was apparently obvious. Presumably a skilled tradie can do it OK but the amateur may get a varying result. And of course he may do an excellent job. I have done a few floors using Cabothane CFP also a water based polyurethane seal and a lambs wool applicator - and after my last one in the laundry, despite being as careful as I could I have to agree that a varying thickness of coat is an issue. In using this Cabothane in a laundry and an en suite application I will now use Bona Traffic in our kitchen family room in preference - whilst neither my laundry nor the en suite suffers much traffic, after a year I believe they already need a re coat to bring them back sharp. Of course I can't yet comment on the durability of the Bona product as it is yet to go down. But I think in all this there is one prime consideration - if you spend the money on the good timber then you want it to end up looking good as it can be. So whilst I initially thought I would coat it myself I am now getting it done professionally. cheers Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 45Jun 03, 2010 9:42 pm Hey thanks guys ... I got your posts mixed up barkly (yep, I checked, that's you ), what do you mean ensuite and laundry? Did you have timber floors there?? So they need very frequent redoing? It says that "Cabothane CFP is a Sandless Floor Primer. This Cabothane product is used to revitalise previously coated timber ..." - so what was the original coating that wore off that much?? (or were you just meticulous in upkeep)? My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 46Jun 17, 2010 8:20 pm Orange looking floors have generally been coated with older style one or two-pack polyurethanes Oil-based finishs tend to enrich the colour and enhance the grain of timber floors. Water-based finishs tend not to colour timber, they simply add a clear protective coating Several floor finishers I know all use Bona, the primer.undercoat is solvent based so enriches the colour whilst the water-based top-coats stop any yellowing/oranging effects Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 47Jun 17, 2010 9:47 pm yep have just had this done to our Spotted Gum flooring this past weekend - and it looks magic. The first base had some odour to it but the subsequent covers had virtually no odour. Hi Lex - no not fastidious but we have outside a considerable area of gravel/sand surface and it is that which has come in on shoes and caused some marking of the surface. We get this dreadful stuff removed next Tuesday 22nd so won't be an issue with the new floor. The Laundry and ensuite were done in Cabothane CFP water base - I shall hand sand them off and recoat over the next weeks to restore them. cheers Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 48Jun 17, 2010 10:02 pm The primer for Bona Traffic is Bona Prime either Intense or Classic. Both are water based. Water based coatings are superior in hardness and better for the environment (including your house). They don't have the same gloss level, no matter what anyone tells you. They don't colour the timber they really just seal it. Solvent based coatings can give you a high gloss level and tend to add a real richness to the timber. They are also cheaper. Just really comes down to what is important to you. I've used Traffic on my jarrah floors and like the look. It has stood up to the kids abuse fairly well. My mate is a floor finisher so I could use what I like. He recommended Traffic. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 49Jun 18, 2010 8:00 am I think we'll also use Bona Traffic, with its recommended Bona sealer. I understand that this finish is maintenence-free, otherwise we would go for natural oil/wax based ones, or even oil modified urethane. When I say maintenence, I mean the waxing/smudging with something every 6-12 months or so and then buffing it in by hand (which can leave marks). I also heard that oil based ones show footsteps if you happen to walk barefoot - ?!??! Although, I read in several places that water based finish is not good for oily timbers My signature is distracting people from my wise posts ... Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 50Mar 04, 2011 1:42 pm I've been told that sticking the floorboards directly to concrete is not recommended and that 12mm plywood should be used under it. Is this true? If so, what is the main reason behind this? Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 52Mar 05, 2011 12:30 am Direct stick all the way. Why stick plywood to the floor so you can then nails boards to it. Just stick your boards straight on and save yourself time and money. You would be VERY hard pressed to tell them apart. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 53Mar 05, 2011 11:09 am I'd go for nails any day over gluing boards down. Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 54Mar 05, 2011 3:57 pm Dollar, nails to battens over direct stick to concrete? Or is it possible to just nail to concrete? Although nailing to battens is quicker and cheaper I couldn't stand it not being as solid and "silent" as having concrete directly under the timber. Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 55Mar 05, 2011 4:56 pm I don't recommend nailing into concrete and can only imagine this would be a difficult task. Battens allow for movement much better than concrete direct. How much difference is there in noise between concrete and battens? Personal choice really I think. Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 56Mar 05, 2011 10:17 pm Dollar I'd go for nails any day over gluing boards down. Why? I've installed many floors and I cant think of a valid reason as to why you need to do anything other than direct stick unless you particularly want a floor that is hollow underneath. Direct stick gives you a floor level that marries up with the surrounding floor coverings far better than plank on ply, and battening really needs to be allowed for pre-construction. I'd enjoy hearing your reasoning behind nailing, and what exactly you are going to nail. Direct stick floors are still nailed but really only to hold the board into the glue until it sets. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 57Mar 06, 2011 4:22 pm chippy Dollar I'd go for nails any day over gluing boards down. Why? I've installed many floors and I cant think of a valid reason as to why you need to do anything other than direct stick unless you particularly want a floor that is hollow underneath. Direct stick gives you a floor level that marries up with the surrounding floor coverings far better than plank on ply, and battening really needs to be allowed for pre-construction. I'd enjoy hearing your reasoning behind nailing, and what exactly you are going to nail. Direct stick floors are still nailed but really only to hold the board into the glue until it sets. Battens are screwed directly onto concrete and nails are hidden into the T&G of the board. Allows for movement, breathing etc. Any water damage to the wood when glued straight to the concrete potentially creates water damage problems causing buckling. Timber laid on battens are much easier to lift up compared to if glued to concrete. A good job will ensure no need for surrounding floor coverings to marry up between carpet and timber. Any good concreter can recess the concrete in order for timber floors to be laid on battens. Why do you Chippy prefer glue to battens? Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 58Mar 07, 2011 12:14 am Price is the main reason. Thinner boards equal less money. Also no need to allow for it pre-construction. Anything out of standard (dropped slab) will cost you more. I also prefer the solid feeling of direct stick. Less noise. Water damage.... Unless you have a catastrophic event (that would be covered by insurance) I can't see that it is an issue. How much water do you pour on your floor? Regular spills, even large spills aren't an issue as long as you clean them up. This would be the same for any timber floor. The modern glues allow for the natural movement of you slab, and I'm not sure why you need to allow your boards to breath. Price is the foremost reason for going direct stick. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost half the price of timber on battens once you factor in extra building costs, maybe even less. The finished product looks every bit as good, so I just can't see the point of going to the extra cost. Each to there own I guess. Most people will take the cheaper option though, particularly when the finished product looks identical. Accessible Carpentry & Cabinets accessiblecarpentry@gmail.com accessiblecarpentry.com.au https://www.facebook.com/pages/Accessible-Carpentry-Cabinets/583314911709039 Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 59Mar 07, 2011 7:58 pm I guess it's personal choice really and what your budget is. Also depends on whether the builder gives you a choice in the matter. I'd assume most people wouldn't even know whether there's options in the way timber is laid. If I was to build again I'd still have timber on battens with secret nailing. Re: Secret Nailing T & G flooring 60Mar 17, 2011 10:04 pm Is it true that you can't use the secret nailing method when direct sticking to method? We are trying to bypass having to pull out nails after the glue sets... Jimbo73 I would use heaps of adhesive on each sheet and screw rather than nail. use as many as you like cheers Simeon 1 4070 1000000% definitely add insulation. I have in my home and it makes a big difference minimising sound transfer. Insulation is pretty cheap and definitely worth it 2 6191 Engineering timber is certainly a less fuss option, times cheaper to supply and install and better withstands humidity. 1 15909 |