Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 May 31, 2009 10:42 am I guess the best thing would be to get someone who has been recommended to you by a friend or relative, but what if this isn't possible? For example, we've been recommended a bricklayer, however my partner doesn't quite like the job they did (he is very picky). We are prepared to pay a little bit more for good quality, while most of our family and friends make their decisions based on the price (go for the cheapest). Also, we're currently in the process of deciding whom to go for steel frame installation. We've so far got 4 quotes and they are all different. I was planning to ask those who've provided me with quotes if we can visit the job they are currently working on and if we can have a look at some they've done in the past. Do you think this would be considered as rude? I mean how far can I go? What are some of the questions that you normally ask in order to try and avoid the ******* ones as much as possible? Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 2May 31, 2009 10:57 am Once I've chosen a tradesperson, based on price and "gut fee", I'd ask to see some of their previous work. You then have the complete picture; price, service and quality. Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 3May 31, 2009 11:02 am Casa2 Once I've chosen a tradesperson, based on price and "gut fee", FYI... A new method of payment which is based upon the size of the beer belly rather than an hourly rate... Ed "ECOECO" At 'EcoEco', we design windows, we design the best windows, we do it for you, so that when you’re happy we are happy. Tel. 1800 326 326 Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 5May 31, 2009 2:10 pm The majority of tradie recommendations which I have kept a list of have been from hubby actually seeing their quality of work. I think this plays the most crucial role. Dont be afraid to ask to see a few of their jobs Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 6May 31, 2009 9:36 pm HI gettingthere, things have really changed over here in the last 24 months - 24 months ago i was battling to get any interest from the quality tradesmen i wanted, let alone a price - they were very busy with work for some of the better builders around town & it was hectic. i made a decission then not to proceed until things quietened down & just kept looking around houses being built by builders i know who have good name, & watched their sites to see whose names were on utes on site. i also drove around new housing developments watching out for different tradies & how their work looked- neither i nor the building trades expected the downturn to hit so quickly....by September 2008 i had tradies starting to ring me & its been like that since last November. i still stand by going & seeing the quality of workmanship b4 getting a quote. look around at new builds & look at brickies, roofers, framers, & gyprockers ect. i then go & approach them ( NOT when the reg Builder is on site...) & start by saying u like the look of their work (all tradies like hearing that...) & would they be interested in quoting on ur job- always have a set of plans with u that u r prepared to leave behind. try to get 3 quotes this way & then choose - i don't see any point in getting quotes from a poor quality tradies!! if u get recommendations thats a great place to start, but ALWAYS go & see their work for ur self. i only had one tradies in my build who i relied upon someone elses recommendation & i didn't follow my usual process cos their price was good - it was the worst tradesmanship in my entire build - my own fault nobody else to blame but me!!! i have found that once u have a tradie on site (& u have looked after them like gold - their building ur house after all) if they have enjoyed working 4u they will often recommend a tradie to follow them. do the same again - check their work, & if happy, get a quote. i found my brickie, roof carpenter & gyprocker this way & really got great workmanship at great value. hopes this helps - it worked 4 me! cheers tony Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 7Jun 01, 2009 8:51 pm Thank you all. I think we will start driving around shortly ) Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 8Jun 01, 2009 8:55 pm T&V HI gettingthere, things have really changed over here in the last 24 months - 24 months ago i was battling to get any interest from the quality tradesmen i wanted, let alone a price - they were very busy with work for some of the better builders around town & it was hectic. i made a decission then not to proceed until things quietened down & just kept looking around houses being built by builders i know who have good name, & watched their sites to see whose names were on utes on site. i also drove around new housing developments watching out for different tradies & how their work looked- neither i nor the building trades expected the downturn to hit so quickly....by September 2008 i had tradies starting to ring me & its been like that since last November. i still stand by going & seeing the quality of workmanship b4 getting a quote. look around at new builds & look at brickies, roofers, framers, & gyprockers ect. i then go & approach them ( NOT when the reg Builder is on site...) & start by saying u like the look of their work (all tradies like hearing that...) & would they be interested in quoting on ur job- always have a set of plans with u that u r prepared to leave behind. try to get 3 quotes this way & then choose - i don't see any point in getting quotes from a poor quality tradies!! if u get recommendations thats a great place to start, but ALWAYS go & see their work for ur self. i only had one tradies in my build who i relied upon someone elses recommendation & i didn't follow my usual process cos their price was good - it was the worst tradesmanship in my entire build - my own fault nobody else to blame but me!!! i have found that once u have a tradie on site (& u have looked after them like gold - their building ur house after all) if they have enjoyed working 4u they will often recommend a tradie to follow them. do the same again - check their work, & if happy, get a quote. i found my brickie, roof carpenter & gyprocker this way & really got great workmanship at great value. hopes this helps - it worked 4 me! cheers tony This is another thing I would like more about. How exactly do you look after your workers? Apart from the obvious like respecting them, being polite, on time etc. Friday bbqs? Provide lunches every day? What special things do you guys to for your tradies? Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 9Jun 01, 2009 11:05 pm Hi GT, theres a few threads about this somewhere, & theres a bit of difference of opinion, i've given my views a few times & this is just my way (not saying its right or wrong) but it works 4 me. once u have agreed on a price & start date & they r on site, its all about public relations. i try to make the site a pleasant place to work, always try to find something u can say looks good, like most people they like to be appreciated. DONT walk around counting howmany nails or whatever they r wasting & don't continually grizzle about the cost of what they r doing or what ur build is costing- u have negotiated a price let them do it to what they have quoted!!! all this aside, 1) most important keep ur site clean at all times, gives instant impression that u mean business, have a good standard & it prevents accidents. 2) always have neat, clean, dry pleasant place for them to have smoko's & lunch. 3) clean neat toilet with plenty of toilet paper 4) try to be on site as much as possible - tradies hate having to make decisions, if ur not there they hate doing something & having to undo it. 5) i wouldn't offer meals, it gets a bit complicated - however if they r going to be there over 1 or 2 weeks, i'd say Fridays BBQ lunch day or sponge cake day or whatever - a nice little treat to keep things friendly. its a bit different for me cos i don't have to work, i can be there all the time if need be - i always offer to make tea or coffee at THEIR smoko time (they don't like u deciding their smoko time & rightly so cos they may be in the middle of something where they can't be interupted). i also provide biscuits for morning & avo tea & leave bikkies on the smoko table. i had one crew who were leaving the site to drive into town to get lunch & lunches were a bit average- i offered to provide them with lunch & they were very grateful & took shorter lunch breaks - worked for both of us! i know a pro builder who always does BBQ morning tea on wet days to lift spirits.... its up to u to read the situation, u don't want to appear to be a soft touch, but if they r happy & feel appreciated they'll usually go that extra yard for u. again its also a bit easier 4 me cos i've done a fair bit of building & they usually love talking about different builds & situations.. u will be able to do that too when ur on ur 4th or 5th build hope that helps - good luck tony. Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 10Aug 03, 2009 4:46 am I am an electrician and i got to say t&V you got it 100% right. There is nothing worse then working on a job where you bust your *** all day long the owner rocks up and just complains for 1 hour and then you don't see them for a week. The place is always A mess and you spend half your time cleaning up their site. Plus they have no toilet on site so if you want to go to the loo you have to drive 20min up the road!!! If you where working on a job where the owner really didn't care about you would you care how the job turned out ? However you do get the people who will bring you coffee and say oh I like that but can you fix this or fix that. Those people you will always go the extra mile because you know when you do a good job it will get noticed and they will appreciate it. I think there is an undertone of tradie bashing often in our society. Trust me its a hard job. When your a sales person you sell a product if someone doesn't like that product you don't care. When your a tradesman you sell yourself, Its not always an easy gig and everyone makes mistakes. Ive had people ring my boss and complain that I was wasting time on the job drinking glasses of water. It was 40 degrees in queensland heat I was pulling cables on my own thou their ceiling. It was so hot enough to cut out the ballast I was using as a temp light. As A tradesman OB's are generally the worst to work for (sorry no offence but its true) This could be why you find it hard to find tradesman. Often they are far less organised and you are more likely to not get paid. That is why you will find if you get a tradie on side with you and they work out you know whats going on and you pay on time. They will recommend their friends because they know your not going to rip them off. Everyone wants work just their is a lot work that isn't worth doing and OB's would make up a fair percentage of that. Sorry my Rant is over Total Breeze Air Conditioning and Electrical - Based in Melbourne http://www.totalbreeze.com.au Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 11Aug 03, 2009 7:41 pm octain As A tradesman OB's are generally the worst to work for (sorry no offence but its true) ....... Often they are far less organised and you are more likely to not get paid. ......... Everyone wants work just their is a lot work that isn't worth doing and OB's would make up a fair percentage of that. And based on that attitude even if you were half the price I wouldn't employ you as my electrician. I want people that will work with me, accept I will make mistakes and help me put them right. I pay in 7 days of correct completion of work. Most of my tradies say they are still waiting for money from some registered builders months down the track. JB Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 12Aug 03, 2009 8:53 pm James Bond I pay in 7 days of correct completion of work. Most of my tradies say they are still waiting for money from some registered builders months down the track. Same here. All of my tradies get paid within a week providing the job has been done properly. If they want cash or EFT instead of a cheque then thats fine as well, all the same to me. Only places I don't pay straight up are the big companies that give you 30 days etc or let me use the visa. I see it no different to my boss paying me whenever he feels like it, it'd p1ss me off to no end. Do the job, get paid. Almost all of my trades do work for a few local builders so wouldn't do many if any OB jobs but none have mentioned any issues working for me instead of a registered builder and my build is a pain compared to their usual square boxes. Most have commented that the job site is clean and even though its not a straight forward easy build they are liking the fact that it is something different. I try not to get in their way or general chit chat and leave them be on smoko unless they come to talk to me. If I stick around the site, I'll go find something to do out in another spot. Otherwise I'll let them know just to call me as I'm 15mins down the road if they need anything. I don't understand why some tradies say they won't work for an OB'er. It's really no different to doing electrical work for example at some random persons house who has called them up to fix a faulty light etc. They're just as likely not to pay. Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 13Aug 03, 2009 10:11 pm dave- James Bond I pay in 7 days of correct completion of work. Most of my tradies say they are still waiting for money from some registered builders months down the track. Same here. All of my tradies get paid within a week providing the job has been done properly. If they want cash or EFT instead of a cheque then thats fine as well, all the same to me. Only places I don't pay straight up are the big companies that give you 30 days etc or let me use the visa. I see it no different to my boss paying me whenever he feels like it, it'd p1ss me off to no end. Do the job, get paid. Almost all of my trades do work for a few local builders so wouldn't do many if any OB jobs but none have mentioned any issues working for me instead of a registered builder and my build is a pain compared to their usual square boxes. Most have commented that the job site is clean and even though its not a straight forward easy build they are liking the fact that it is something different. I try not to get in their way or general chit chat and leave them be on smoko unless they come to talk to me. If I stick around the site, I'll go find something to do out in another spot. Otherwise I'll let them know just to call me as I'm 15mins down the road if they need anything. I don't understand why some tradies say they won't work for an OB'er. It's really no different to doing electrical work for example at some random persons house who has called them up to fix a faulty light etc. They're just as likely not to pay. Not saying that every OB is a pain in the ***. Infact from just reading your post above I can pretty much tell youd be good to work for. hence why your tradies don't have any problems. As far as non payment goes. Yes you will get that with the small builders but they won't last long because news travels fast , However your henly's, porter davis, av jennings will all pay you on time. It could do to much damage to their reputation if word got around. dave- I don't understand why some tradies say they won't work for an OB'er. It's really no different to doing electrical work for example at some random persons house who has called them up to fix a faulty light etc. They're just as likely not to pay. Well there is another issue. Thats why it is so hard to get people to come around and fix a light switch or power point. I got litually tons of stories myself and my mates who have done one or two hour jobs or a full days work. for friends of friends, family ETC. Who have done jobs and not being paid. Once the work is done people just tend to forget about you. To the point where you have paid for the materials and no even got reimbursed for them let alone your time. However I must admit Ive done jobs for people and they say oh how much and "I go 100 bucks" they go "narr heres 150 and a slab!" If every job was like you would have tradies knocking down your door! Unfortunately the minority ruin it for the majority. James Bond And based on that attitude even if you were half the price I wouldn't employ you as my electrician. I think your missing the point and maybe that was a little harsher then it was intended however. You say you pay 7 days on Correct completion and this is where often the problem starts. And yes this is a massive generalisation however it happens. EXAMPLE Owner rocks up on job no plans, goes thou the job at a million miles an hour because they got to be at work in an hour and they are tired and stressed from working all weekend on their OB project. You try to take down as much as you can however all they seem to care about is getting to work on time. You try to ring them at work and once again their stand offish and make statements like "We Went thou all this morning!" You pretty much get it all right except bedroom 4 ends up with 4 downlight instead of 3 and a power point ends up in the wrong spot. It about half a metre out from where they roughly pointed and they changed their mind 4 times in the same sentence and you weren't even sure as to whether they even wanted it or not and it was lucky you even put it in. They decide its your fault and you not only are expected to fix the down light but also fix the power point and pay for the patching and painting. You tell em to stick it they should have been more organised and so they decide never to pay you! or pay you what they think your deserve! This is a fine example of how not to do an OB and why people don't like working for OB's. Once again let me stress this is not everyone but it only takes one or two of these in every 10 to really make sure you don't want to touch these jobs. Thats why tradies like the referal system. and why you find it hard to get tradies. Total Breeze Air Conditioning and Electrical - Based in Melbourne http://www.totalbreeze.com.au Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 14Aug 04, 2009 6:15 pm Octain : I am an OB & have had excellent jobs from all our trades bar one to date. We also pay on completion, or as the case with our plasterer, on agreed instalments as the job progressed. They all have done work over the years for both OB's & builders. All of them appreciate our attitude/communication, & vice versa. Sounds like communication problems have been the basis of your opinion & problems with OB's. Communication is a TWO WAY STREET. Life's too short too drink bad wine Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 15Aug 04, 2009 6:45 pm Hammerhead Sounds like communication problems have been the basis of your opinion & problems with OB's. Communication is a TWO WAY STREET. Indeed. If any of my tradies were not sure about what my instructions were I would expect them to ask! If I change my mind I expect to pay extra. We're about to start the sparkies rough in. I'm sticking pictures of light switches and GPOs all round the house in the positions where I want them. No confusion then! That's in addition to the plans which are often open to interpretation. It's obvious that there are good OBs and not so good OBs just as there are good registered builders and not so good registered builders. But if a tradie takes on an OB job he needs to accept that the OB is not an experienced builder and they will expect the tradie to be a consultant as well as a physical worker. I pick the tradies that have this attitude, over the cheapest quote. JB Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 16Aug 04, 2009 8:49 pm We're actually wary of builders, they hardly ever pay on time. Hubby prefers to work for private individuals. We had an OB once whose plasterer told him that it was hubby's job to do the skirtings on the bulkhead Hubby isnt a plasterer and it isnt his job (says so in the contract ) but helped the guy out as much as he could because they were great people. Ill try and make things are easy as possible for our future tradies but then again I hope they're understanding and realise I may not know everything about their trade. Your right, communication is the key Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 17Aug 04, 2009 9:16 pm I would have thought payment was the only incentive required to get good quality work done, or should we give gifts to the carers looking after our injured or invalids, or maybe gifts to teachers to get that extra help. Sounds a lot like tipping, where the bigger the tip the better the service. Payment should be all that is required. How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? The same question can be asked of government, there are no guarantees.
Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 18Aug 04, 2009 9:23 pm There are two types of 'rewards': Financial rewards and non financial rewards. Financial rewards being money, bonuses, commissions etc, non-financial rewards being acknowledgment, reputation, promotion etc. I could pay you thousands of dollars and treat you like crap, or pay you what you have quoted (perhaps less than the thousands) and in the mean time be a pleasant customer who treats you with respect. If you were the tradie, what would you prefer? It doesnt necessarily mean that if you treat me like crap you wont get what you paid for - ofcourse you will. Its a business transaction. But if your not pleasant to me then you cant expect the tradie to be very forthcoming in 'helping you out' with other things And I get gifts from some of my kids at the end of the year Its nice to be appreciated Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 19Aug 04, 2009 9:33 pm bam, I think that in general parties are polite at the beginning, and attitudes get strained as the work progresses. I wonder why? BTW you get gifts from the kids not their parents, cheers Re: How do you make sure you get GOOD tradespeople? 20Aug 04, 2009 9:41 pm We keep coming back to communication then, dont we? I got some wedding gifts from parents Im a lovable person Custom European Cabinets - Melbourne Kitchen Specialist PM for business details as website currently being updated! Our Crazy Owner Builder Journey! 9 24816 In my opinion just a few more indoor plants and you're done. It's already a lovely space, you've managed a classic style without being too cluttered and that creates a… 1 19565 Not sure who you're building with, but I moved in recently to a 11month scheduled, 8 month actual build on the South coast/Illawarra NSW 3 5919 |