Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Jan 29, 2009 11:03 pm hi,
I'm in progress of building my 2 storey house, i recently contracted a gutter & fascia guy to do my gutter. An inspector from fair trading turns up to check this guy licence and it turns out that his licence has expired several years ago. Stupidity on my part, because he was refer by a friend...forgot to check . Anyway, next thing you know workcover turns up to scrutinize him,. because he didn't comply with work safety eg. safety boots , scaffolding for work done over 1.8m ... etc. I was then informed that fair trading & workcover will contact me later, regarding this infringement and possible penalties. Just want to know, what are my rights and possible fines ( but how much?) Also, does that mean all the work done by this guy, have to be removed and redone by a licensed tradeperson? Any advice? HELP!!!! Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 2Jan 31, 2009 11:05 am It means that as an owner builder you are expectant to take on the role of a builder. As a builder you must provide a safe workplace (site).
As you are building a 2 story house, you would of needed a scaffold for the fascia and gutters to be installed. I presume that workcover will place a PIN on your site and you will be fined for failing to provide a safe workplace. My partner is a chippy and owner builders don't want to spend the 20k for a scaffold. That is one reason amongst others he doesn't do work for them. I hope they throw the book at you, because i'm sure your partner/family would not appreciate your life to be at risk on your job, so why should the tradies. I know I don't want my partner to go to work one morning and not come home alive or even come home a paraplegic. Best of luck, I would be seeking legal advise from specialist lawyer for more information about what to expect. Edit: To all owner builders, please be mindful of your expectations and role when deciding to be an owner builder. Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 3Jan 31, 2009 12:05 pm Minx I hope they throw the book at you, because i'm sure your partner/family would not appreciate your life to be at risk on your job, so why should the tradies. Now, now, be nice Minx, ob1noob is a new member and is asking for our advice. We dont know the full story of what has been provided or not by ob1noob and what is required to be provided by the contractor? Owner builders are not "fully qualified" builders in their own right. But on the other hand i'm sure a safe worksite it always required. As it should be.... I hope it works out for your ob1noob. Let us know how you go? Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 5Jan 31, 2009 2:14 pm **Phoenix** Minx I hope they throw the book at you, because i'm sure your partner/family would not appreciate your life to be at risk on your job, so why should the tradies. Now, now, be nice Minx, ob1noob is a new member and is asking for our advice. We dont know the full story of what has been provided or not by ob1noob and what is required to be provided by the contractor? Owner builders are not "fully qualified" builders in their own right. But on the other hand i'm sure a safe worksite it always required. As it should be.... I hope it works out for your ob1noob. Let us know how you go? I'm sorry if I have offended, but let me tell you, after having my dad come home and cry because he saw someone get killed at his workplace (was all over the media and the company was fined over a mill), and my father himself involved in a workplace accident where he was out on workcover for 11 months and requiring surgery, not earning what he usually does, becoming depressed, I hope you can understand my anger in this situation and the fact that I do not take OH&S matter lightly. The expectations of an owner builder or a domestic builder are clear. In literature provided on the building commission website, with some states requiring owner builders to complete a course, and certainly in Victoria I was provided literature when getting the permit to undertake work as an OB. ALL builders (and remember owner builder take on the role as a builder) are to follow the OH&S ACT as wells as the Building ACT, Building Regs and BCA. Just because you are an owner builder doesn't make one exempt from those pieces of legislation, and in any case an owner builder shouldn't be an owner builder unless they can follow the legislation. Some people may see owner building as a "cheaper" exercise, in this case saving a couple of bucks could cost him tens if not a hundred thousand more. Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 6Jan 31, 2009 7:47 pm Hi ob1noob
I do hope that this works out for you. I am sorry to hear that you were mislead by the roof plumber....i have found that out of all the trades we have sub-contracted for our project, roof plumbers were the most unreliable and difficult to get answers from. After countless disapointments with various roof plumbers, the guy that we ended up with was the only one that was reliable, honest and had the right attitude towards the job (inc health & safety aspects). We found him accidently - pure luck - his brother was driving past our block in his plumbing van (turns out he lives a couple of houses down from us), he slowed down to have a look and we called him over and asked him if he was interested in the job! Pure luck!!! Re your project - I would have a chat with the worksafe inspector again, I am sure they can be reasonable about the matter, particularly if you admit you are at fault for not checking things over before letting him work on site. You may get away with a warning - even if they issue a Provisional Improvement Notice (PIN). They may want you to just rectify things as stated in the PIN and leave it at that, but I think you need to plead your case with them. Also it's worth checking with the building commission and consumer affairs vic as they may be able to give you advice for your situation. I don't think you will need to redo the work, you may need to get a licenced roof plumber to inspect it and issue a certificate for the works, I am not sure though, without all the details, it's difficult to give you specific info...do let us know how you get on, it is a lesson for all to learn! All the best. consumer affairs vic http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256EB5000644CE/page/Building+%26+Renovation-Owner-builders?OpenDocument&1=40-Building+%26+Renovation~&2=20-Owner-builders~&3=~ Building Commission (where you got your OB permit from) http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/www/html/284-choosing-to-be-an-owner-builder.asp?intSiteID=1 Ruth -Bought house in Melbourne inner burbs, knocked it down & now...we are owner builders! Completed OB project and moved in to our new home with our new baby in May 2009! Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 7Jan 31, 2009 7:56 pm This may be of use to you as well (and other OBs out there), it is a basic list of what is required under the OHS regulations in Vic - produced by worksafe.
http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/eb1ac001aa9cfac/vwa_work_safe_housing.web.pdf Ruth -Bought house in Melbourne inner burbs, knocked it down & now...we are owner builders! Completed OB project and moved in to our new home with our new baby in May 2009! Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 8Jan 31, 2009 9:13 pm Geez minx a bit harsh regrdless of your fathers experience, you make it sound like ob1noob forced this guy to work in a dangerous environment If the tradie was concerned about it he could have voice his concerns or refused to do the job until it is safe.
Sure its the owners responsibility to ensure safety requirements are met (lets face it there is no such thing as a safe construction site) but its the individuals responsibilty to ensure his own safety and as such should stipulate their should be appropriate scaffolding erected before work will commence. I know my roofer has made a point of ensuring the appropriate safety bars and scaffolding is erected before they will do any work and having clarified that I am sure to take those precautions. Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 9Jan 31, 2009 9:26 pm Well said Phoenix & Piranha. Ruth -Bought house in Melbourne inner burbs, knocked it down & now...we are owner builders! Completed OB project and moved in to our new home with our new baby in May 2009! Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 10Feb 03, 2009 5:58 pm hi,
thanks kindly for all the advice...good & harsh! i did provide scaffolding, the gutter guy actually completed the 2nd level. it was him who advised me to remove the scaffolding so that he can commence work on the 1st level. It turns out that he didn't connect one of the downpipes properly, so he opted to climb onto the 2nd level with the ladder, without my knowledge. That when the inspector arrived. Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 11Feb 09, 2009 9:14 pm Hey minx, you really need to pull your head in. Your opinion may be that as an Owner Builder you should have all the knowledge of a full time builder, but the reality is that Owner Builders don't, so you need to cut them some slack.
You can quote regulations 'till they come out of your backside and my experience is that builders will do much to circumvent them too, so no-one is perfect right? As for the regulatory bodies themselves, most of them are just bureaucratic nightmares apparently set up for no other purpose than to extract as much money as they can from anyone they can. The OFT is a typical useless bunch of pen pushers who when you really want them fall back on their usual "outside our area" (read: can't be bothered) mode. So give ob1noob a break, ok. Re: Dep. Fair Trading Inspector 12Feb 10, 2009 7:35 am I'm with you Minx...
As an owner builder, you are responsible for everyone on your site... The buck stops with the Builder/Owner Builder, as it will be you going to jail if things go horribly wrong... I can't believe that some States don't make you site through a course where the OH&S responsibilities are drummed into the participants... Not enough people have been touched by the tradgedy of a workplace incident... Ob1noob, by the sounds of though, you did provide a safe working environment to a point, and it was the roofer who has breached his responsibility of working safely. Provided you weren't actually there when this occured, I'm sure you will only recieve a PIN if you can provide proof of the scaffolding previously erected... Electrical Engineer... Don't hold that against me... And keen owner builder... Mainly the building part!! I would send it to the certifier who is technically your representative and working on your behalf not the builder's 1 2264 Hi, we live in an area where the black soil is prone to a lot of movement. We have an old 50's house with masonite everywhere and nails popping out, warping, rusted etc.… 0 4510 I do enjoy the drama:-D In his latest two videos he has started bringing security guards to site, I am waiting for the punch on to begin lol 6 45543 |