Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Jan 18, 2009 12:59 pm Hi All, as an "oldie" & having o/b'ed a few projects over the years & having read thru this forum for last 6 months, can i with due respect to all just remind those considering being an owner builder that when u build this way, it is YOU who assumes the roll as the "builder" & who is "legally & totally "responsible for the build. this can be very rewarding, it can be a nightmare.
there r very few people who truely "owner build" these days, most tend to "owner supervise" & thats fine - anything u can do ur self should save money, u have the ability to change things as u go without incurring penalties, u can choose who u get to do what - really its a great sense of independence but sometimes it comes at a price. owner building is not always the cheapest option, but u determine the quality. the alternative is that many of the project builders quite rightly don't want owners climbing about the site when they as "professional builders" r responsible. they have signed a contract & thats what they will build, usually at a good standard, within budget & on time. the point that i'm trying to make here, is that as an owner buider u have the total responsibilty for the build. u select the design, u select materials, u plan the scheduling, u select the tradies u want, u supervise, u are responsible for the outcome NO ONE else. when things go wrong, its no good blaming the tradies - u were supposedly supervising (or better still working) with them!!! in my experience, it is very hard to get basic materials at equal to, let alone better prices than the building trade will. fittings r a different thing - u can hunt around to get better prices on stoves, sinks, cupboards and the like becos its ur time. u can go to tile sales etc - builders don't spend days hunting about - they buy whats available or get the owners to supply. obviously its very rare to get tradies at builders rates, but often tradies will happily work with o'b'ers doing bits & pieces & have o/bers labouring with them which saves money. very few o/b's come in on time - this usually causes some budget over runs. BUT usually the finished home is what u wanted, a few things get "beefed up" along the way & u hopefully get a good quality home. my advice to first home builders is DON"T BE IN A RUSH! try to negatiate a contract with a builder who will agreeing to u being involved on site where practical -maybe doing some labouring, painting, build a garage or shed, do landscaping ect urself. get experience from this build, see the way the build proceeds, find where materials & tradies are souced from! make contacts - finish the home, live in it for a year or 2 & sell it. Then u r in a very good position to do ur first o/b & hopefully u might have a bit more cash to do a better build! this post is not intended to put anyone off o/b'ing, i've posted this with the intention of getting people to understand whats involved, there r all types of options - what suits one may not suit another - but look about first - don't rush in - this is probably the biggest single item u will ever finance & at the end of the day u should be happy with the outcome. to those who jump in at the deep end with their first o/b - well done for having the courage, be patient, & i hope the experience gives u a wonderful sense of achievement & enjoyment. hope this helps those considering o/b'ing - cheers Tony Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 2Jan 18, 2009 8:04 pm Very true Tony, it is a huge deal to take on owner building. The forum has been a great source of info and what you have said we will definately take on board. My husband and I are about to tackle our first O/B and Im excited but prepared for the stress that lays ahead.
To be honest we never considered doing it any other way. My husband is a plumber and is very particular about his work. He wanted to pick from the best tradesmen that he knows and I think in the end that will help us both sleep better at night knowing that we are going to get the quality that we want that you just don't seem to get from volume builders. We are at the building permit stage with the water board giving us the number one problems at the moment but we are determined to let it run its course and not to get stressed from the delays. Cheers Tony for the prewarning and i'll let you know down the track how good of an idea it all has been!! Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 3Jan 18, 2009 10:06 pm Hi Katie08, u'll do fine, with hubby in the plumbing trade he knows the steps & what to expect. we all have to start somewhere, but what concerns me is when someone starts an o/b and they have never set foot on a building site be4! there r very good books about O/bing & with the internet there is lot help about, but it is still something that shouldn't be undertaken lightly & i just want people to realise that.
look forward to hearing ur progress Kate - i'm sure u'll ride out the "officialdom" & blue tape we all have to go thru the hoops cheers tony. Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 4Jan 18, 2009 10:55 pm hey had to put my two bobs worth in here lol.
personally its bloody hard work and very time consuming. you wont save enough money to warrant being an ob unless you are prepared to do basically everything yourself. it would work out cheaper and less stressful to get a builder to at least build it to live in lock up stage and you finish it off. however if your prepared for long hours , sleepless nights , red tape , sore backs , broken nails, swallowing flies, headaches,arguments,missing tradies,missing materials and no life apart from the build then your as mad as us and go for it lol we are loving every bit of it good and bad but we have researched and studied this for years and are still learning everyday. its not something to try for the fun of it. you really need to consider if you have the time and energy required to be an ob. if you answered no get a builder seriously. Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 5Jan 18, 2009 11:12 pm Shelley's spot on Quote: long hours , sleepless nights , red tape , sore backs , broken nails, swallowing flies, headaches,arguments,missing tradies For me though the hardest bit is having to live with my own mistakes, made thru the lack of experience. I've already made a fair number of errors and have to live with the consequences. They're not fatal (yet and hopefully never) but will need time, money and elbow grease to fix. It's harder on me 'cause I'm rather a perfectionist and I get really peeved off with results below my expectations. Tony's right about the books, but they can take one only so far and very often the reality of O-B bites you in spite of the stack of books read. How I wish there was an apprenticeship for the O-Bs Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 6Jan 19, 2009 8:55 pm Hey Chris ur going fine - don't beat urself up too much about those little mistakes, u've found them, u make a value judgement about correction & move on - my father in law taught me a lot about building & his moto was "never show anyone ur mistakes- just see if they find them!!!" i know i stretch the friendship a bit with u when i say ur next one will be better, but give it 8 -12 years of living in the one ur building now & i recon the brain will start twirling about - new products, maybe different family demographics & whooooo away u'll go again
but ur right about the apprentiship bit - a chap i know did just that, signed up on a "adult-apprentership scheme" of some sort, the builder got some reward for taking him on, he learn't about the job & 2 years later built one of the nicest houses i've seen... if ur still having trouble finding someone to put those frames up, i'd go back again to the framing company & explain that ur still looking about & ask them again - i'm finding that a lot of tradies r only just starting back from Xmas break - u never know if a job or 2 has fallen over since Xmas, i've heard thats happened down here with bank finance tightening up... cheers tony Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 7Jan 20, 2009 9:05 pm Tony, good to see a good honest post about the vaguaries of Owner Building - warts and all!
As a builder for the last 20 odd years (mostly odd!) I have become a recent convert to Owner Building over the last 12 months and am in the process of putting together some packages that have proven to be of great assistance to Owner Builders in managing OH & S, Budgets, Trades, Quotes and timelines. Currently 35% of all domestic building permits in Victoria are issued to Owner Builders and many of them are really being let down by the broader industry trying to protect their turf. I am not one of those 'protectionists' and am rushing headlong to meet the acute demand for specialist, knowledge and experience for this very large industry sector. Owner Building can be a great buzz, but not if you have to learn from your own very expensive mistakes - it is far cheaper and less stressful to learn from mine as I have already made them all and paid for them over the years! Builders are people too.... Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 8Jan 31, 2009 9:07 pm Great post Tony. We are calling ourselves owner builders but the only thing we are physically doing ourselves is the site cleans!!
We are owner project managers/building supervisors and are sub-contracting everything, including sourcing of building materials (though not fittings) - Lots of work and commitment required even for that, We are constantly thinking about things like red tape and sorting out trades to fit in with each other, sourcing quotes, questioning decisions and hoping for the best!! The biggest thing we have learnt through this is that in order to get through it you need to have an exceptional relationship with your partner !! My DH has been constant support, we have made decisions together and are so far happy with our choices....no blaming anyone else or each other!! And one more tip - YOU are in control of your project - no one should want this to work out more than you! So if you are considering OB, act like it is the most important thing in your life cause no one else will/should care about it as much as you!! If you can't commit to that - go through a builder, let them worry about the little things like site toilets, temp fencing, signage, rubbish removals and site cleans, maintaing spreadsheets, paying invoices, compliance with ohs regs and checking quality of tradies work, bringing drinks for tradies while they're working etc etc Ruth -Bought house in Melbourne inner burbs, knocked it down & now...we are owner builders! Completed OB project and moved in to our new home with our new baby in May 2009! Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 9Jan 31, 2009 9:45 pm I agree, great thread Tony.
The percentage of owner builders is growing and i suppose some people think, yeah we can do this, how hard can it be??? But there are a lot of pitfalls as i've read....it IS hard work. Well done to anyone brave enough to take on such a job. It was hard work just keeping track of our build, let alone organising it ALL, ourselves!!! Rerob, maybe you should repost those links you had in the other thread and maybe this can be a information point for our o/b members?? Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 10Jan 31, 2009 9:53 pm Here it is, hopefully most potential OB's are already aware of these sites:
consumer affairs vic http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/CA256EB5000644CE/page/Building+%26+Renovation-Owner-builders?OpenDocument&1=40-Building+%26+Renovation~&2=20-Owner-builders~&3=~ Building Commission (where you get your OB permit from) http://www.buildingcommission.com.au/www/html/284-choosing-to-be-an-owner-builder.asp?intSiteID=1 This is a basic list of what is required under the OHS regulations in Vic - produced by worksafe. http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/wps/wcm/resources/file/eb1ac001aa9cfac/vwa_work_safe_housing.web.pdf Cheers Ruth Ruth -Bought house in Melbourne inner burbs, knocked it down & now...we are owner builders! Completed OB project and moved in to our new home with our new baby in May 2009! Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 11Feb 01, 2009 1:09 am Hi All, thanxs for the positive responses, there is a lot of good that can come out of sharing experiences. i also note the wonderful positive support that is given to o/bers thru this forum - i don't think there is ever an o/build that at some point doesn't make those undertaking it wonder "what on earth am i doing this for!" a month later u can be like a dog with 2 tales loving the progress & the little sucesses along the way.
if those who choose to o/build sometimes have doubts about their choice to do so, have a look in the "building a new house" forum & look at the problems that also arise with contract building - i was particularly surprised at the huge differences that happen between base price advertised for a particular house design & the final prices - i read of variations of 25 to 60 % - touch wood i've never had a build over run to that extent. however this week i hit an unexpected & unbudgetted expense, again of my own choosing. it came about thru me scheduling roof cladders too close to roof framers. i wanted a quick follow thru on this to stop wood frames getting too much weather exposure. however also i have about 50m of verandah and a large patio area to be covered, i know from experience that the best way to paint these areas is to do so before the cladding goes on, i allowed myself a week for this. it took me 3 days to prep & apply one undercoat!. so yesterday i pulled in painter to help me which is costing about $300 a day. i'll have him for 3 days but we'll get 2 primers & 2 finishing coats on. then the roof sheeting can go on and all i'll have to do is a day of touch up. i was a bit disheartened at my underestimating of time which added unbudgetted cost, but i know this extra expenditure will give a very professional finish. at the same time i'm helping oversee a roof replacement on a friends house. he let a contract for the removal, reframing & re-roofing & discussed with the builder that he wanted me to look in on the job every day or so for a quick look. its been a difficult job as the builder didn't really know what he would encounter under the old roof, with the roof off it has to be covered up every nite. imagine everyones surprise Friday morning when after a weeks work, the weight of water on the tarps pulled the temp strutted main ridge over!!! 1 days work to straighten it all out - all at builders expense - so i didn't feel too bad about the painting situation. clearly its not only o/bers who run into little challenges. hey "builda" ur figures about o/bing really surprised me, ur idea of offering as advisor service is excellent, i hope u do it as i think u would find it very well received & very rewarding. we have a couple of people doing it over here and from what i hear i think it adds about $4,000 to $5,000 to the cost, but i'm sure first time o/bers get to save a lot of $ from not making "learning" mistakes & also learn what extras to put into the actual structure - like strong mortar mixes, normal bricks over stress areas not fast blocks, more bugles in roof battens ect. ect. i think even a subscription "online advice line" would be helpful if it doesn't already exist? cheers tony Re: Basics of being an Owner Builder 13Feb 01, 2009 8:25 pm Tony, again a great post - honesty can not be understated!
The advice line as you suggested is something that I am working on at the moment and want to set up a chat line service on my website which (finally!!) I am building. At this stage in my working life i am concentrating on providing value services for owner builders so that they avoid the disasters that all too often occur. To put it bluntly, I want to publicise the 'tricks of the trade' so that homeowners can use the knowledge for better outcomes. I'll let you know when my site is a bit more developed - it is only up to the 'Preliminaries stage' at the moment ie: budgets and finance etc but eventually I want it to be a complete 'how to' for the whole industry - owner builders and the trade from start to finish. Good luck with your project, it sounds like you are on the right track! Builders are people too.... Being an owner builder is no walk in the park. It’s a challenging endeavour that requires dedication and hard… 0 9992 My garage door has started playing up recently. Sometimes (and getting more frequent) when I press the button to open it, it wont. The motor is an ATA GD0-6V3. Red and… 0 2664 |