Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum 1 Oct 11, 2008 5:04 pm Hi i actually wanna build a home in Perth. However due to recent shares slump my shares are now worth only half of its value. I suppose to sell the share to build the new house but never realised that share price slump like hell.
So now incase asking a builder to build my home i might intend to build it myself to save cost. But can i really save cost by doing the owner builder ? I have heard that the builder mark-up 20-30% but they also have discount up to 30% on material. Should i go with the owner builder path ? Thanks Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 2Oct 11, 2008 6:21 pm noidea So now incase asking a builder to build my home i might intend to build it myself to save cost. But can i really save cost by doing the owner builder ? I have heard that the builder mark-up 20-30% but they also have discount up to 30% on material. Should i go with the owner builder path ? Thanks What is the extent of your building knowledge? If you have little or no knowledge, forget about it! I can tell you right now that you'll spend less initially due to not having to pay the builder a percentage but I can assure that you'll end up paying a hell of a lot more in the long run fixing up all of the 'cock-ups' along the way - I have seen this mistake made many times before... IMHO, there should be a law against this... Builder's margin is around the 10-15% mark but it depends on the project and supply and demand... Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 3Oct 11, 2008 7:22 pm Yes, owner building for someone with no trade or building experience can be daunting and will take longer but hopefully the end result is a better product.
You are also not limited to one builders products (i.e kitchens, vanities etcc) Another suggestion would be to find a builder that can build to lock-up, then complete the rest yourself. Get the builder to go through an electrical and plumbing plan with you. Plumbing/electrical and plastering can be done quickly as this is contracted out. Where you can save is by doing some parts yourself e.g insulation, painting, skirting boards (even flooring and tiling if you are game). It is all about time and willingness to put some effort in. Saving money by dealing with tradies yourself, however frustrating this can be. Once you have your building permit, I think you have around 2 years to complete or get your C of O. So you could finish say the second bathroom when you had the funds or the time. Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 4Oct 11, 2008 7:55 pm well, i'm a developer and i have been develop units houses in the past 7 yrs. However for the building job i hand over to a builder to do. my job is only working on the plan and selecting stuff at the pre-start.
My ideal is that we can used same amount of money to get a high quality items rather than the builder standard low-class item. I know that the make-up margin in Eastern State could be low because i see the price to build a 2 storey home in east is abt $200k. But that is totally different story in Perth. The price to build a 2 storey home for 350sqm is abt $500k. So i suppose the mark-up margin for the builder is higher than the Eastern State. I'm not sure what is the trouble i will facing but i running my own business which have plenty of time to explore. I always through the trademan build stuff according to the plans. These day the builder just ripping everyone off. Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 5Oct 11, 2008 8:08 pm noidea Hi i actually wanna build a home in Perth. However due to recent shares slump my shares are now worth only half of its value. I suppose to sell the share to build the new house but never realised that share price slump like hell. So now incase asking a builder to build my home i might intend to build it myself to save cost. But can i really save cost by doing the owner builder ? I have heard that the builder mark-up 20-30% but they also have discount up to 30% on material. Should i go with the owner builder path ? Thanks hi noidea sorry about your loss on the market i hope you have sold your shares now as you may end up with nothing. owner building can save you money if your prepared to do alot of the work yourself.if your building a fancy architectural design then you will save but if its a stock standard design and you dont want to do any work then id get a builder.as for 30% saving on materials im not so sure the builder will pass them onto you. being an owner builder isnt for the faint hearted and you will get problems and lots of negative responses from friends and family however ive enjoyed every step so far. i guess it all depends on your finances and your spirit.gl whatever way you decide.cheers shelley Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 6Oct 12, 2008 8:15 pm norbs Yes, owner building for someone with no trade or building experience can be daunting and will take longer but hopefully the end result is a better product. noidea These day the builder just ripping everyone off. I disagree 110% with these statements. The end product will not be better. Just because you are a 'business man or woman' and you 'think' that you can coordinate a few trademen, if you have little or no knowledge about 'building procurement', forget about it! I wish you luck because you're going to need it....or more money then sense. Sorry to be honest, but some people find out the hard way.... Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 8Oct 13, 2008 10:43 am Hi Minx,
Quote: Are you prepared to have knowledgeable tradies knocking back your work because you are an owner builder? As a rule my partner does not do work for OB's and neither do many other subbies we know. Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 9Oct 13, 2008 11:53 am kristofw Hi Minx, Quote: Are you prepared to have knowledgeable tradies knocking back your work because you are an owner builder? As a rule my partner does not do work for OB's and neither do many other subbies we know. Chris Sure Chris. To become a DB-U (Domestic builder unlimited) is not easy, however means that you are a domestic builder and that is a job. Many Ob's like the original poster think that it's cheaper to be an OB. The reality is that OB's are not builders and unless you are an experienced sub contractor it is likely that the OB will have limited to no building knowledge and expereince. Time is money Chris. If my partner does jobs on price which is what he usually does with his builders, there is an expectation that at 7am today the material is all there and he is ready to go. Today he is doing the first floor joists and flooring for the front townhouse he is building. The material is also there and his apprentice will be cutting it up to start the first floor timber frame. The builder has organised everything so there is no down time. A long while ago my partner did do a job for an OB. Yeah come down on monday at 7:30 am the OB said you will be ready to go. 7:30am on monday he was there and there was no material. My partner was pretty peed off and phoned him and he was like oh yeah can you get it. Well no, it's not his job. The OB didn't know anything about the materials list so my partner had to do it and he charged him for it. Ordered the materials and was told it would be delivered first thing on wed am. That is two days lost for my partner, no work yet has his own employees wages to pay. A bit difficult to pay when you are not making money. Then the OB didn't realise when the windows needed to be ordered etc. It was the biggest pain in his bum and he refuses to do it. OB's want the discount yet balk at the prospect of paying the subcontractors for organising their job. Put it this way if my partner wanted to project manage a site he would be hired and paid to do so rather than do it for the OB for nothing. It is better and easier for him to do work for registered builders. He just has to go there and do his thing and come home. Invoice, pay his employees wages, super, do the bas and thats it. Now please don't get me wrong not all OB's are like this but my partner is flat out with work that he does knock back work and in particular given how busy he is refuses to look at OB work or even small renovations at this point. Like i said it's easier and less stressful for him to work for builders than an OB who rarely treat a build as a job. Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 10Oct 13, 2008 12:48 pm Hi, I have spoken to some of the Trades man and they told me life have change completely.
During the boom day which 2 yrs ago they don't even look at Owner Builder because they are extremely busy with the builder work. They don't want any trouble from the OB wasting their time. But now they are facing down turn in the building construction which they willing to take any job and negotiate any price. At this stage we can find that it can save heaps being an OB. We have meet with an OB Consultant which they willing to arrange quote and oversee the building for a fees of 5% of the total construction cost. I rather pay 5% to the OB Consultant than a 30% mark-up from builder and i can get more quality products being an OB. Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 12Oct 13, 2008 2:25 pm Quote: The OB didn't know anything about the materials list so my partner had to do it and he charged him for it. Ordered the materials and was told it would be delivered first thing on wed am. That is two days lost for my partner, no work yet has his own employees wages to pay. A bit difficult to pay when you are not making money. Then the OB didn't realise when the windows needed to be ordered etc. Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 13Oct 13, 2008 3:52 pm Minx noidea But now they are facing down turn in the building construction which they willing to take any job and negotiate any price. quote] Sorry but I don't see a downturn quite yet. I should know as i help organise my partners diary, do his BAS and wsges. Infact my partner is booked up by a builder for 2 sites with an expected site start of jan 09 until the end of 09. This is as a chippy. I believe that the good tradies won't struggle with finding work. All the builders I know prefer to pay top dollar for a good job. It will be the ok but not the best tradies that will struggle and take what they can get... Well, mayb Melbourne is still good. But when u look at Perth everyone will tell you. The builder business is so quite and real estate said the property market in Perth is almost death. Lucky you are in Melbourne. Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 15Oct 13, 2008 8:28 pm As an OB in a rural area, choices of tradies for me has been limited.
I have been lucky enough to secure the services of a builder I know & trust 110%. It is true many builders won't touch an OB with a 10' barge pole. It is also true about getting any sort of discount for materials you order yourself: you just don't get 'em. As an OB I have found my project exciting to date, and not without frustrations, many of which started with lodgement of the DA with council. It is certainly a project to tackle with eyes wide open, plenty of free time & a good understanding of the BCA for a start. GL with your decision, & sorry about your shares. HH Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 16Oct 13, 2008 9:56 pm Minx,
Quote: I don't think that OB's intend to be irresponsible they just think that it will be easier and cheaper to not hire a builder. The guy you've described certainly was irresponsible and disorganised. As for cheaper and easier, I thought so at first, until I did a few months of hard homework. Now I'm scared sh...less of the whole process, but going ahead with it all the same. Luckily, I'm not pressed for time, so I 'll be able (hopefully) to take it as it comes and I hope that the most it'll cost me apart from money would a few more white hair. Chris My father rode a camel, I drive a car, my son flies in a jetliner, his son will ride a camel.Saudi saying Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 17Oct 14, 2008 6:30 am kristofw Minx, Quote: I don't think that OB's intend to be irresponsible they just think that it will be easier and cheaper to not hire a builder. The guy you've described certainly was irresponsible and disorganised. As for cheaper and easier, I thought so at first, until I did a few months of hard homework. Now I'm scared sh...less of the whole process, but going ahead with it all the same. Luckily, I'm not pressed for time, so I 'll be able (hopefully) to take it as it comes and I hope that the most it'll cost me apart from money would a few more white hair. Chris Chris I wish you the best of luck. With your attitude I believe you will succeed in your build, and enjoy a few headaches with it along the way I found the whole process exciting, from briefing the architect to purchasing my 6k oven. I am lucky that i was able to build what i want without worrying too much about budget. The worst thing about being with a chippy/builder is that now in hindsight i wish i designed my house differently and put this in, did that etc. I blame my partner on that, getting me to bring him morning tea on million dollar sites Oh well i keep telling myself next time i build......which will be never again!!! To me the stress and headaches arn't worth it. I made it clear that next time i design and says what goes into the build and my partner organises the build. Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 18Oct 14, 2008 7:49 pm Firstly, I would have to say that I agree with Minx. You will need to be in the trade the have the 'know how' and the contacts. In this industry and in the OB position, it's not just who you know, it's also what you know...
There are specific codes that must strictly be adhered to within the BCA. As far as I know, there are hefty fines if these building rules are not met.... therefore I encourage minor renovations to those that are enthusiastic...but building from the ground up, I certainly don't encourage to those that are inexperienced and/or the faint-hearted. The job of a builder is not only coordinate tradesman, it's also to 'problem solve' (which is half of the job) when things go pear-shaped or when things aren't clearly detailed on the drawings and specifications. Educated executive decisions (not guesses) need to be made on the spot to ensure continuity of work bearing in mind that it won't have after affects.... You will need to be on site every day and quite often when it probably won't suit you. Just because you may be the most organised person in the world, doesn't mean that your tradesman is, therefore you will have to make sacrifices and make the odd appearance at the 'drop of a hat'... As mentioned, you will not only need to measure and know the quantity of materials, you will also need to be familiar with the term 'lead time'. You will need to have knowledge within the industry to know what is affected and this must be taken into consideration to ensure that the job isn't left at a stand still which affects the coordination of trades and can have a negative affect on cost. You won't receive the same price from tradesmen from being an OB. Being a builder gives the sub-contractor confidence. Due to their expertise, it gives the subcontractor (within reason) the confidence that they will be given sufficient notice to be on site to perform work, material will be on site to what's specified and to the correct quantities, they have sufficient access on site to perform the work set out, whether the trade before them completed the work to a satisfactory standard....I could go on.... In time, a builder also builds a relationship between subcontractors so that the price will be usually be competitive and the standard of work is beyond an acceptable standard and known to the builder from past experiences. I am sure that he doesn't want his reputation tarnished, but like most things, you get what you pay for. In being an OB, what would you do...call some random subbie out of the yellow pages and hope that they will live up to their promises and perform their work to a standard which you hope is reasonable? You have to understand that there are real cowboys in this industry, so you need to know who and what you're dealing with. Builders also know in their experience what things cost and what the going rates are so there is less chance that anybody gets shafted... Well, I can say that i'm in the process of finishing my second year in a Bachelor of Construction Management & economics degree at UniSA and that i've been at the pointy end in the residental and commercial building industry for the past five years. I can assure you that even the most simple build will never end up being a walk in the park. Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 19Oct 14, 2008 11:41 pm For those in Perth want to attempt Owner Builder but don't know where to start should consider attend this course:
http://www.homebaseexpo.com.au/site/Courses/show/id/5 Re: Owner Builder cheaper than Builder 20Oct 17, 2008 10:40 am My two cents worth:
Im going to build a 50sqm addition to my house in the new year. Ive done all the plans, details, specifications myself, and I reckon I had every single thing covered. I was thinking of going owner builder. Last weekend I got a builder friend around to have a look, give a ballpark quote, and have a general chat about the whole process. He picked through all my information, and identified about a dozen problems, that could have costed me serious time delay and dollars. Conclusion: This owner builder game is a serious undertaking, you really do need to know what your doing, how to manage the timing of trades, the timing of ordering and delivering building materials, ensuring site supervision, site safety, etc etc. I will not be going owner builder now, The plan now is that Im going to sign up a builder, get him to set a garenteed fixed price for the build, get him to set a fixed deliver programme for the build, and get him to take on all the responsibility of the build. I will happily take on the builders mark-up price, with the piece of mind that I dont have to stress about it every day. Pat. Hi VK, I am now retired however I have stood beside over 300 owner builders in the past 18 years that have successfully built their own homes. First of all a building… 10 22606 Hi all. Anyone know when the $11,000 limit was set in legislation for renovations in QLD? Ive been renovating for 5 years now and this was the limit back then. As we know,… 0 4237 |