Browse Forums Owner Builder Forum Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 2Nov 27, 2011 5:41 am The Harder You Try - the Luckier You Get ! Web site http://www.anewhouse.com.au Informative, Amusing, and Opinionated Blog - Over 600 posts on all aspects of building a new house. Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 3Nov 27, 2011 5:55 am Landscape Design & Construction http://cherub.squarespace.com/ pre fab truss and frame v chippy 4Nov 27, 2011 6:58 am We had our frame put up in 4 days by a crew of 5 carpenters, all from scratch. Millimeter perfect, square and plumb. Add to that 1/2 a day spent by one tradie straightening studs prior to plaster. The site supervisor we have swears that it is cheaper and a better end product that way than prefab off site. His reasons for that belief included lack of care over timber selection, frames working loose in shipping and moving, unacceptable gaps because timber not cut square. Our frame was spot on, lined up to all the lines on the slab perfectly, not a gap to be seen between noggin and stud, stud to plate. Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 5Nov 27, 2011 7:21 am I agree with Ray153. We had a team of chippies and they got our house up very quick. Frame looks great. I think you might save 1 or 2 days tops with pre fab if you get a few chippies working together. There are arguements for and against of course but you can get a great result using both methods. If the only factor that you are considering is cost then you might just have to get both quoted. Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 6Nov 27, 2011 2:00 pm Having used pre-made frames and trusses many times in the past, I'd have to say as above there are for and against for both. I's also have to disagree with you bashworth on a couple of your remarks... Quote: Proven design by them included in the price. Very strong connectors at all joins.( as these have to be designed to take loads during installation they are actually much stronger than they need to be in the finished location) Fabricated in factory conditions so more likely to be accurate and square. A timber frame is basically just a rectangular frame of T & B plates, nogs and studs. If you do it yourself or use a good carpenter , you can put the studs exactly where you want them ( if max spacings allow ). This is very handy for the placement or nogging out for internal features etc. Bear in mind that the gorillas who nail these together in the framing yard do not take the best of care as they are after all just labourers not carpenters. We have more than once had frames delivered that were sub-standard. If the stud centres are 600mm on a run of wall say 2600mm long, they'll just whack 'em in at 600 centres until they get to the last one and if it just happens to be only 200mm from the last then that's what they'll do. I'd much rather space them out at an even 540mm - same amount of timber but better. If speed is your goal then pre-made sometimes is the way to go. Roof trusses are another matter though and have to be made and certified by the frame manufacturer. We have compared jobs over the years and found that if we built the frames on site then used trusses for the roof framing it was a good combo and worked out much the same costwise and timewise. If it was an unusual or difficult design especially for the roof we used to cut it and frame it on site. This also depends a lot on the actual design of your house as well. Stewie Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 7Nov 29, 2011 11:48 am It doesn't matter how square your frame is if the foundations are out. Our builders framers just look at the measurement on the spec and cut the bottom and top plates to suit that. The frame then had an over hang of 55mm in some places.
Stewie D If the stud centres are 600mm on a run of wall say 2600mm long, they'll just whack 'em in at 600 centres until they get to the last one and if it just happens to be only 200mm from the last then that's what they'll do. I'd much rather space them out at an even 540mm - same amount of timber but better. You obviously haven't had to find the studs on a wall where this had been done. I have cursed every chippy to an eternal damning that was involved in our last house because they were at odd distances (500, 500, 450, 250) and it was not a load bearing wall that may have needed additional strength. Also I would definitely get the trusses pre-fabbed every day of the year. The different load calculations for varying situations is not to be taken lightly. Edit: Should have read as "haven't had to find" Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 8Nov 29, 2011 12:03 pm for a one of house design stick frame is the way to go. You can then get the pre fab trusses made based on the final dimensions when the walls are up. For owner built houses you might want to change things a little once you see things go up. Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 9Nov 29, 2011 12:16 pm bashworth I don't know that there would be too many chippys left who would have the skills, or patience, to build a full house frame from scratch. I would go for prefabricated every time for the following reasons. Proven design by them included in the price. Very strong connectors at all joins.( as these have to be designed to take loads during installation they are actually much stronger than they need to be in the finished location) Fabricated in factory conditions so more likely to be accurate and square. Fast (when you are paying loans for the land and initial stages plus rent or a mortgage on where you are living time really is money) Because the pre-fabricators are buying huge quantities of timber they should be able to get it cheaper than any local chippy My house.. PD house, was built using chippies onsite, as was my neighbours both sides, and the Big M one across the road.. Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 10Nov 29, 2011 5:45 pm Quote: You obviously have had to find that studs on a wall where this had been done. I have cursed every chippy to an eternal damning that was involved in our last house because they were at odd distances (500, 500, 450, 250) and it was not a load bearing wall that may have needed additional strength. So why were you cursing them ??? I'd go for the studs spaced evenly over a whole wall anytime. Most carpenters who build on site would too. Stewie Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 11Nov 29, 2011 8:26 pm If it's a straight forward house i'd go pre-nail frame based on a couple of things. If you have a good chippie gang you will get a good job what ever way you go. Time can also be another factor, you may have to wait to get your pre-nail frame delivered, but if you get it ordered early enough that should'nt be an issue. You may also want to look at the price comparison, there's a reason all the major project builders are mainly using pre-nail frames. mgilla Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 12Nov 30, 2011 12:03 pm Stewie D Quote: You obviously have had to find that studs on a wall where this had been done. I have cursed every chippy to an eternal damning that was involved in our last house because they were at odd distances (500, 500, 450, 250) and it was not a load bearing wall that may have needed additional strength. So why were you cursing them ??? I'd go for the studs spaced evenly over a whole wall anytime. Most carpenters who build on site would too. Stewie Sorry it should read as haven't had to find the studs. The point was they weren't evenly spaced at all. I cursed them because the spacings were completely random between each stud. At least with 600 centre I know what I'm getting for the most part and yes there will be 1 that is out if the wall length isn't there, but 1 is better than 4 different. Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 13Dec 01, 2011 9:15 am I should have mentioned that the only bonus or aspect I like about all your studs being set at 450 or 600mm centres is for installing insulation batts in the walls because as you know they come in packs designed for those spacings which means a lot less cutting. Stewie ( still scratching from the last time I installed them !) Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 14Jan 17, 2012 8:32 pm I have cut many frames and roof with my gang and here is my thought. I prefer cut on site for the following reasons: -It costs me about 40% cheaper when i do it on site compare to pre-fab -Cut on site frames and roof members are stronger then pre-fab companies, pre-fab uses computer software to calculate them to use smallest size of timber beams and members possible to save money. I always use bigger size timber and beams to make it stronger. -Quicker to cut on site if you have good team -All walls will be positioned perfectly according to your slab, concretors make mistakes on every slab, and it is much easier to make those changes on site, then cutting down pre-fab frames and adjusting roof trusses. -Cut on site roof will not sag, trusses are designed to sag down up to 30mm and i have seen houses where they sag even more and they rest on no-load bearing walls, and then it becomes real problem. -Cut on site frames will have two top plates and much stronger for the upper loads. -Less injuries on site as it is much easier to do, and less chance you will fall of the roof as you have ceiling to walk on. In regards to spacings, max spacing is 600mm and no one should complain to Carpenters if they are not spaced equally, in every frame there is a reason why they are not spaced equally, roof struts, concentrated loads, hanging beams, external cladding back blocking etc. Studs can be random, there is no rule for that. But it is easier for insulation people if they are at 600mm. I feel sorry for people that use pre-fab frames and the money they paid for something they thought is worth the dollar where in fact it isn't. I save at least 10k on every house, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 18Apr 11, 2016 7:14 pm Hi All... I'm wondering if anyone can provide me with rough estimates of the difference between both pre fab and onsite for a standard rectangle (nothing too extravagant) 30sq home? Sorry to butt in but I'm wanting to embark on OB in the not too distant future and have no idea what to estimate for frame/trusses... TIA Soon to be owner builder in Toongabbie VIC Re: pre fab truss and frame v chippy 19Apr 11, 2016 8:12 pm I bought pack lots of H2 timber studs (each pack is roughly +200 off 6m H2 studs) and I cut each stud, wall plate & noggin to length on site. The supply cost for the studs was insignificant (about 2.5%) in the total build cost. My labour cost as a hands-on owner builder were zero. I did use about $2,000 worth of fixings though. My house has gable walls and the internal walls are raked. My previous experience on an earlier build with prefabricated raking frames was bad as the rectangular frames were spot on but the raking walls were way out and I had to cut them down & re-make them. The other issue for me was delivery and unloading on site. I am building in a remote area and the transportation and unloading costs for prefab frames were very high. Prefab frames take up a lot of room on a truck but pack lots of timber take up very little space and can be added to someone else's delivery if you are not in a hurry. Depending on where you are building you may need to factor in delivery costs. It's hard to comment as the photos area bit dark ( you might need a new 15 - just got one and wow ) Jokes aside, I can see one member that is cracked. I would find a… 2 2440 This is 100% true. You can not hang anything on steel frames. very frustrating 8 10384 |