Browse Forums Eco Living 1 Feb 10, 2013 1:55 pm Hi all, I hope this is the right forum for this. I was hoping to get some opinions on if I should connect to Natural Gas or not. Natural Gas is available in our estate where we will be building in hopefully the not to distant future but I was wondering if it was worth connecting it to the future house. Essentially the only thing that I can think of that we might use gas for at the moment could be the hot water system (but there's other options). I'm wondering if it would make sense to just maintain one utility/bill possibly saving on service charges etc? This would be assuming that the running costs of things wouldn't be significantly cheaper using gas to offset service charges etc. The house will be located in Western Sydney. It's an East-West facing block with a large amount of unshaded north roof space available and I believe we would be a good candidate for solar panels. There will be approx 190m2 of indoor living/bedroom space. Will just be 2 adults for the moment but we're hopeful the house will meet our needs for the next 10+ years and hopefully add a few more to that count at some point during that time. We're currently leaning towards the following: Kitchen Electric Oven Induction Cooktop (from what I've read gas cooktop might be cheaper to run but not significantly so??) Heating/Cooling Fans in bedrooms Was initially going to put a gas fireplace in the lounge room as a feature but have pretty much decided to scrap it to keep within our budget. Maybe a split system or ducted A/C. Hoping to avoid using artificial heating/cooling as much as possible so leaning towards split system(s) in living areas for the times it is really required. Hot Water This is where I'm really stuck. Option 1 - Instant Gas If we had gas I would probably go for a gas instant hws. They seem relatively cheaper to buy upfront and I like the idea of the control panels you can get to set the temperature exactly as you like it for a shower etc. Cheaper to buy Option 2 - Heat Pump Heat pump seem like they are quite efficient but I don't think we have a good spot to locate it and I'm concerned about noise. Seems that it might be of a similar install/supply cost to a Solar based system. Option 3 - Solar Hot Water - Gas or Electric Booster I don't mind the idea of Solar hot water even if it is a lot more upfront (within reason). I'm just worried that would using an electric booster cost a lot more each year to run than gas for when it is needed? Would this be more than the cost of gas service charges (the fee the companies charge for having a connection to the service)? I've currently estimated gas service charges at around $180 a year ($15 a month) based on what I've read online. Other info We'll be having double glazed windows, R2.0 wall and R3.1 ceiling batts to try and help reduce the need for excessive heating/cooling. I'm also considering putting an electric solar panel system in to help offset electricity costs but haven't done much research into this yet. It would likely only be a small 1.5-2.5KW system to start with unless the more powerful systems have dropped in price. I'm happy to use a traditional gas bottle outside for BBQ. Which way would you lean towards if you were starting fresh?! Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 2Feb 10, 2013 6:52 pm JustBeBuiltAlready Hi all, I hope this is the right forum for this. I was hoping to get some opinions on if I should connect to Natural Gas or not. Natural Gas is available in our estate where we will be building in hopefully the not to distant future but I was wondering if it was worth connecting it to the future house. Essentially the only thing that I can think of that we might use gas for at the moment could be the hot water system (but there's other options). I'm wondering if it would make sense to just maintain one utility/bill possibly saving on service charges etc? This would be assuming that the running costs of things wouldn't be significantly cheaper using gas to offset service charges etc. The house will be located in Western Sydney. It's an East-West facing block with a large amount of unshaded north roof space available and I believe we would be a good candidate for solar panels. There will be approx 190m2 of indoor living/bedroom space. Will just be 2 adults for the moment but we're hopeful the house will meet our needs for the next 10+ years and hopefully add a few more to that count at some point during that time. We're currently leaning towards the following: Kitchen Electric Oven Induction Cooktop (from what I've read gas cooktop might be cheaper to run but not significantly so??) Heating/Cooling Fans in bedrooms Was initially going to put a gas fireplace in the lounge room as a feature but have pretty much decided to scrap it to keep within our budget. Maybe a split system or ducted A/C. Hoping to avoid using artificial heating/cooling as much as possible so leaning towards split system(s) in living areas for the times it is really required. Hot Water This is where I'm really stuck. Option 1 - Instant Gas If we had gas I would probably go for a gas instant hws. They seem relatively cheaper to buy upfront and I like the idea of the control panels you can get to set the temperature exactly as you like it for a shower etc. Cheaper to buy Option 2 - Heat Pump Heat pump seem like they are quite efficient but I don't think we have a good spot to locate it and I'm concerned about noise. Seems that it might be of a similar install/supply cost to a Solar based system. Option 3 - Solar Hot Water - Gas or Electric Booster I don't mind the idea of Solar hot water even if it is a lot more upfront (within reason). I'm just worried that would using an electric booster cost a lot more each year to run than gas for when it is needed? Would this be more than the cost of gas service charges (the fee the companies charge for having a connection to the service)? I've currently estimated gas service charges at around $180 a year ($15 a month) based on what I've read online. Other info We'll be having double glazed windows, R2.0 wall and R3.1 ceiling batts to try and help reduce the need for excessive heating/cooling. I'm also considering putting an electric solar panel system in to help offset electricity costs but haven't done much research into this yet. It would likely only be a small 1.5-2.5KW system to start with unless the more powerful systems have dropped in price. I'm happy to use a traditional gas bottle outside for BBQ. Which way would you lean towards if you were starting fresh?! Hi this is what we are installing Electical oven, Induction cooktop, fans through out house, Ducted A/c, Gas Hot Water Deposit on land 20/03/12 Deposit with Builder 01/07/12 Tender signing 12/10/12 Into Council 20/01/2013 Site work started 30/04/2013 Keys 15/11/2013 What can i do tomorrow better then today Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 3Feb 11, 2013 7:32 am With electricity prices climbing rapidly and gas only going up reasonably , the difference between the two will become a lot more making gas appliances an even more attractive option. Solar power just gives you some money back from the system and helps lessen your total bills. Stewie Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 4Feb 12, 2013 12:10 pm We have nat gas for hot water and cooktop with a 44.3c daily sac + useage cost. Our elec. supply is 74.7c daily sac + useage cost. In reality probably would be better off with solar hot water (have solar elec) and not have worried about nat gas. Time will tell I guess. Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 5Feb 12, 2013 2:40 pm I'd have it if it was there. Heating is one of the best I've seen. also you can plumb it into the barbeque. I also like those immitation log fires. I prefer natural gas to bottled - for ease and generally price. Also - you can often get the whole deal pretty cheaply. Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 6Feb 12, 2013 9:37 pm thanks for the responses team! I'm still not sure which way we will go yet. We're pretty set on electric oven/induction cooktop. So if i rule those two out it would only leave gas being used for hot water, a possible fireplace and alfresco area bbq (though it would be sweet not having to replace a gas bottle, they always seem to run out when you need them most!). I've done a little bit more reading on solar hws with electric booster and it seems as if a lot of people get away with leaving the electric booster off a good portion of the time. Just have to be careful that the water gets to over 60 degrees every so often so bacteria doesn't build up. Might also be able to do something clever with the thermostat / booster timer so that it only kicks in during cheap electricity times or shuts off when it gets to 60 degrees or something to minimise its usage. I guess it comes down to could I get away with electric boosting costs being cheaper/or roughly the same than gas service charges assuming we're happy to scrap a potential fireplace and natural gas connected bbq. I might try get a few quotes of different hot water systems both gas and electric boosted (iv'e heard electric can be up to 1k cheaper upfront) and try make a call from that. Sometimes I have a tendency to overthink these things and should just pick and stick with something! Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 7Feb 12, 2013 10:19 pm Never even thought about it, just went straight to gas boosted hot water, but that's not based on anything! The one piece of advice I would offer is even if you decide not to connect gas now I would still run the gas line from the street to the house so if things change you won't have to dig up the garden to put the line in later, shouldn't add to much during the build. 2 Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 8Feb 13, 2013 7:05 am Re solar hot water. You're saving quite a bit with it - but not sure I'd turn the booster off. After all - it only works when the temp falls. Hadn't heard of anyone leaving it off all the time. Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 9Feb 13, 2013 7:39 am Gee Mike we only put our booster on in winter. Def run the gas if you can. I'd much prefer a gas stove to electric. Wasn't a choice here unless we did bottles so we didn't. Are you planning on staying in the house long term? Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 10Feb 13, 2013 8:02 am Definitely get gas if its available. Most people prefer gas cooktops, and it also opens up cheaper hot water and heating options. Will help at resale time too. As you say, there's gas in the suburb and your house could be the only one on the buyer's shortlist without it. That's not going to help it sell. Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 11Feb 14, 2013 6:53 am kexkez Are you planning on staying in the house long term? Yeah at this stage hoping the house will suit our needs for the next 10 years or so if not longer. offshore Definitely get gas if its available. Most people prefer gas cooktops, and it also opens up cheaper hot water and heating options. Will help at resale time too. As you say, there's gas in the suburb and your house could be the only one on the buyer's shortlist without it. That's not going to help it sell. Interesting point about resale didn't think about it from that point of view. Currently trying to get quotes for a few hot water systems (can't believe how hard it is to get people to call back sometimes!). Even if we decide not to connect gas straight away I might still get the pipes laid as Stormjr suggested so I've either got an easier option later on to add it if we want or for a future owner of the house to use. Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 12Feb 17, 2013 9:47 am I would go with solar evacuated tubes, split system. North facing unshaded, western Sydney no booster should be required. If going with electric for cooking, then other than bbq no need for gas. Access charge is over $200 pa. Have the gas line installed but do not connect. Its probably more green with potentially no non-renewable energy. Pulpo Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 13Feb 17, 2013 10:45 am For health reasons I don't want gas for cooking, regardless of resale value. I'll make up for the extra electricity used by having PV panels. As for the hot water, I haven't made up my mind yet, but I doubt it will be gas (if available at all). Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 15Feb 17, 2013 1:52 pm offshore Health reasons? That's a new one. People who cook with gas, or grow up in a house where the parents cook with gas, are more likely to suffer from asthma an other respiratory problems. Not to mention that gas produces moisture, making mold more likely. Not painting a bad picture of it. It's definately not the worst thing in life. There are much worse offenders in the average household, but it's just one more thing to consider. I have chosen to go electric for those reasons, even if it means I have to pay a bit more. Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 17Feb 18, 2013 12:49 am offshore That refers to the unflued systems from the 1950's. No, that refers to gas cook tops now. Unless, of course, you have a way of getting a gas cook top to work without an open flame. It'd be interesting to see that product. Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 19Feb 18, 2013 11:22 am offshore Not an issue if you have a rangehood. Obviously not true, as the studies doesn't show that. They show that there's a greater likelyhood of respiratory problems in homes with gas, regardless of there being a rangehood or not. I guess if the "only a problem in the 50's where they weren't flued" argument didn't work, let's try something else The reality is, though, that the studies show a direct relation between the two, and that I personally have chosen to not have gas for that reason. Whether or not you choose to do as I do, is completely irrelevant. You can have all the gas you want, I just reserve the right to do as I see fit for myself and for my family. Anyway, I don't want to argue about this, as I don't care enough about it, to be honest, but here's a titbit for you: Quote: The British medical journal, The Lancet, reported in 1996 that the use of domestic gas appliances, particularly gas stoves, was linked to increased asthma, respiratory illness, and impaired lung function especially in young women. Women using gas stoves had double the respiratory problems of women cooking on electric stoves. The same study showed that using extractor fans which vented the cooking fumes outside did not reduce adverse effects of gas. And another link for you to read, if you're still in doubt: http://www.alive.com/articles/view/1726 ... _unnatural And with that, I'm done with this "discussion". Re: Opinions on not having natural gas even if it's availabl 20Feb 18, 2013 11:31 am The rangehood is the flue. It extracts the burnt gas and flues it externally. 1950's kitchens often had no such flueing in place. Sometimes there was a small masonry chimney near the cooktop, or an open window, but mostly nothing. If you look hard enough you'll find studies saying vaccination is bad too. I wouldn't worry about gas stoves. Pretty much every chef in the world spends 40 hours a week in front of one. traditional gable roof facade - Have you did the dark and light gray color combination in facade with gray stone in facade… 0 4212 Hi, planning on using the attached stone pieces in my bathroom. I want to remove stains and gloss seal. Can I get some advice on best way to remove stains and best… 0 6710 4 10822 |