Anyone know anything about Forma-Tech Wall Building System

http://www.formatech.com.au/index.html

We're looking at building and husband likes the look of this product (he's a commercial builder who builds a lot with tilt panels). We'd probably render or clad the outside and are considering using it internally too for thermal mass and sound insulating where appropriate.

The company won't give a definite R rating as they say it depends upon what wall structure you decide upon.
Any comments?

Thanks.

I can't say how I know, but I do know the company is finding it difficult to sell this system. Read into that what you will.
To me it seems overly complex & messy for what it is trying to achieve.

An ICF solution seems preferable - simpler, better thermally & similar accoustic properties. Have a look at Zego, Formcraft, Thermacell, EcoBrick, Insulbrick.

Have a look at this guy who documented his ICF build in Australia: http://www.*.com/f176/icf-e ... ndex6.html

Also this USA based ICF discussion group is worth reading: http://www.greenbuildingtalk.com/Forums ... fault.aspx

Thanks suprok. We have looked at ICFs so will go through the links you sent. I tend to agree with your thinking but DH liked the look of it.

we are looking at sips industries, they are based in Bibra Lake in Perth - not sure if they do other states? They have a seminar on the 30th June which DH is going to go to to check it out..

http://www.sipsindustries.com.au/contact.php

We saw these at a home show the year before last and DH liked them but then saw this: http://www.greenenergybrick.com.au which took his fancy. Trouble is now we really need to make a decision and there is so much around and so many new products coming on to the market.

Wow, hadn't seen those bricks before - R8, nice! I'm annoyed that you posted the link though - another thing to research & consider!
At 320mm wide though it'll take up too much space on our narrow block - even the Formcraft ICF we'll be using for most of the frame is 220mm wide.

As for SIPS that's another great option - we would have definitely considered it except that it has minimal accoustic blocking properties. Might still use it for the garage/loft. I saw them at the home building show last year but didn't take too much notice as I was hell-bent on ICF research. Also I remember at that point their website was terrible with limited info (now much better) & they only had some strange agency arrangement for Victoria - not sure if that has changed now.

Will show DH, he is the one who knows all of this gobbly gook terminology! LOL

The only problem is that most other ICF systems have the foam on the inside of the mass rather than outside of it. To get the thermal advantage of having mass i.e. store heating energy - it ought to be on the inside of the insulation. It can't do that if there is interposing insulation

Sorry, you've lost me. Are you saying that there is better thermal mass if the concrete is on the inside of the insulation, in this case foam?

I was under the impression that in cool/temperate climates thermal mass was better on the inside and insulation on the outside. An exterior wall should be well insulated but thermal mass wasn't as important as on the inside where it is more so? Is this right? I obviously need to do Thermal Mass 101!

You've lost me but this is the theory.

Thermal mass is the heat storage battery.

Solar radiation is the charging source,

You want the sun to pass through the window, enter the building, strike the mass and charge the battery. Radiation can also bounce around within the building to heat the mass but is most efficiently done directly.

At night time, when the sun sets and the indoor temp falls, the heat stored in the mass can be released to mitigate the heat loss.

To reduce the rate of heat loss, the entire structure should be insulated.

So the ideal combo for the external wall is INSIDE HOUSE - THERMAL MASS - INSULATION - OUTSIDE HOUSE. You don't need to have any mass in the external walls. You can keep it in the floor or the interior walls - but the same principle holds, the mass is WITHIN the insulation.

Thanks for explaining it so clearly - that's what I had in my mind, obviously was as clear as mud writing it down!

So the outer concrete walls of formatech are a bit of overkill as you don't need the thermal mass on the exterior walls? Although they are insulated you're paying for thermal mass in essentially the wrong place. Is that right?

Yes, the outer skin is redundant from a thermal point of view but useful for a durability one.

But most ICFs are insulation:mass:insulation which makes the mass redundant thermally and the external cladding is not as durable.

If I was using their website to make a decision on using this product, no chance.

Green energy bricks are just expensive.

Not sure what is the best product to build the walls out of.

Maybe look at sip.

Good Luck

Pulpo