Browse Forums Eco Living 1 Sep 06, 2009 6:58 pm Hi all, I'm not really sure if this is the place for this or if this is a silly question or not. I've just looked at the floor plan for my house for the first time facing it in the right direction and flipping it to put the driveway on the right side: http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo27 ... tation.jpg It seems that I'm going to have a very dark, cold house - or am I reading this wrong?? Can anyone give me some idea of what to expect in terms of natural light in the house?? Thanks. P. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 2Sep 06, 2009 7:46 pm You are reading it correct. Having the car etc on the northern side is going to make the other side of the house cold and dark in winter. Kitchen and dining is OK where it is. but the front half of the house needs flipping over - ie garage on the south, and master bed etc on the North to get best solar gain in winter Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 3Sep 06, 2009 8:22 pm Well being NE you will get early morning sun and a smidge of winter solar gain. I'd do the most I could to get more light as per Yak_chat Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 4Sep 07, 2009 10:02 pm Sorry to disagree with Onc and YC.
I think orientation OK given the constraints of the block. (Estates rarely do solar orientation right. ) If you mirrored the plan (from the way show in the linked jpg) all you would be doing is making the current SW wall exposed to morning sun. Your master bedroom would still not get sunlight as the windows would still face south east. It would get sun on the NE wall but as no window there of limited benefit in winter. And may be a disbenefit in summer as the sun heats this wall which can conduct into the bedroom room. Your laundry and bathroom etc may get sun but as you don’t live in there not much benefit. Third bedroom (Edit 8/09 - I meant 2nd Bedroom - hard to read mirrored writing!) would get sun - but standard passive design any usually places the bedrooms on the southern side anyway because you don’t want bedrooms to heat up and hold the heat in summer for sleeping overnight. If you did mirror you would have to look at summer shading of the window to protect against summer sun. Anyway just looking at your block it appears likely to me that your neighbour to the NE will be quite close to your house and so may block the low winter sun – and may still allow in the high in the sky summer sun – not very desirable. (You would need a distance of about 4 metres to the adjoining house to get most of the benefit of the winter sun to the North East wall. If he is double storey double the distance). So it is likely that you will not be able to benefit much from winter sun to the north east. The real solar access is to the rear NW. You have windows there to allow solar access. Your problem will be because it is NW rather than N you are likely to get hot afternoon sun in the summer which could cause overheating of the living rooms (higher AC costs). You need careful consideration of shading of these windows. They need to be shaded in summer and but not shaded in winter so you still get the benefit of the winter solar heat gains. A structure with deciduous vines might work, or you could put up a shade clothe on a structure in summer and take down in winter, or correctly orientated slates (but the NW orientation complicates that). Or external blinds. Trees in the rear yard should be low or deciduous to not block winter sun (and hope your neighbour doesn’t put in tall trees in their back yards). (Check your home technical manual - http://www.yourhome.gov.au/technical/fs44.html. Look at other sections as well in this excellent resource.) If you have slab on ground it is preferable to have tiling material in (at least part of the) family and dining room to allow the winter sun into the rooms to heat the ground slab so that it can store and release the heat later in the day – decreasing heating bills. Could consider trying to get a small window in the NE wall of the dining or kitchen to let in morning light - but that depend on whether your neighbour's house is (or will be) right up on the boundary there. (Summer shading would be required.) Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 5Sep 07, 2009 10:44 pm To each his own Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 6Sep 07, 2009 10:46 pm Eccles I see your points and agree with lots of them - particularly the western sun and shade options - however I still think that flipping the front section of the house if possible is a better option. ie draw a line at bed 3 across the house and mirror the front section right to left, garage on lhs and leave the back as is. Yeah I know difficult with Bed 2 being in there, but let's see what can be done and I agree the costs may be too high. I didn't look at the window locations in master bed last night - but with wall insulation and eaves the master bedroom would not be that hot in summer anyway as the hottest sun should not hit the walls - and with shading this can also be achieved. In saying that windows should be placed on the NE side for this master bedroom room to get in light and warmth, as well as windows for the kitchen /dining so winter sun is visible for warmth and enjoyment. Neighbours or not this can still be acheived with the right design. Poor old P is obviously going OHHH no at all this - but hey - such is life. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 7Sep 07, 2009 10:59 pm <em>Yak_Chat</em> Poor old P is obviously going OHHH no at all this - but hey - such is life. there will be a nice cool area of the house to draw off cool air in the middle of summer if the garage was south east and yes desiduous fruit trees for summer shade Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 8Sep 07, 2009 11:17 pm Yak_Chat Eccles I see your points and agree with lots of them - particularly the western sun and shade options - however I still think that flipping the front section of the house if possible is a better option. ie draw a line at bed 3 across the house and mirror the front section right to left, garage on lhs and leave the back as is. Yeah I know difficult with Bed 2 being in there, but let's see what can be done and I agree the costs may be too high. I didn't look at the window locations in master bed last night - but with wall insulation and eaves the master bedroom would not be that hot in summer anyway as the hottest sun should not hit the walls - and with shading this can also be achieved. In saying that windows should be placed on the NE side for this master bedroom room to get in light and warmth, as well as windows for the kitchen /dining so winter sun is visible for warmth and enjoyment. Neighbours or not this can still be acheived with the right design. Poor old P is obviously going OHHH no at all this - but hey - such is life. That the problem with Forums - a difference of opinion - then how do you decide. Sorry P. I took it that the design was basically set - except for the possibility of mirroring the whole design. Back to the drawing board I might make a few other changes too - but P probably doesn't want to go there. Actually it is not too bad compared to others I've seen. The living rooms have solar access - should be N rather than NW but OK given the block. Bedrooms on the cooler side - I think that's OK. I think the proximity of neighbours and blocking of winter sun is a big problem on new estates. Until they are forced to clean up their act in this department and get estates designed for maximum winter solar access it is going to remain a problem and good solar house design is going to be compromised. Re Eaves - very few project homes have eaves. They are an endangered species - despite their benefits. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 9Sep 08, 2009 12:56 am Eccles I think orientation OK given the constraints of the block. (Estates rarely do solar orientation right. Eccles I think the proximity of neighbours and blocking of winter sun is a big problem on new estates. Until they are forced to clean up their act in this department and get estates designed for maximum winter solar access it is going to remain a problem and good solar house design is going to be compromised. Re Eaves - very few project homes have eaves. They are an endangered species - despite their benefits. Seems to me covenants and energy ratings are increasing while some of the simplest most basic things that could be done are being neglected. I don't understand. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 10Sep 08, 2009 1:16 am Unfortunately designers and developers and builders, have different agendas... developers want as many lots as poss'. Designers draw with a set of instructions , the shire wants as many rateable dollars as poss . And the builder wants to build a range that most likely are mirrored plans with slight variations . So never the twain shall meet. Except where the company that developes, also designs and builds with synergy. There are a few. Where you are coming from is where you are going to... Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 11Sep 08, 2009 7:28 am As per above - if the design is fixed due to price or or other reasons then flipped the way it is to suit the drive is the best orientation of the design, but I'd still like to see a few more windows on the northern side for the kitchen & living room areas and if eaves are not available, some external shades that can be drawn down to keep it cool in summer but still enjoy the sun in winter. I'm an eaves advocate, but in saying that - I have no eaves on my current house on the northern or southern walls and I'm actually liking the ability of being able to control the sun as and when I desire - as opposed to when the suns angle desires. In southern climes when cooler summer days can occur - it gives me more flexibility and also the same flexibility on the edges of the seasons. With P's design, if it has no eaves - as it appears, then the placement of some high windows "I'm talking right up high starting just below gutter height" which will enable the house to still get sun in over the neighbours roof and if nothing else to keep the house light and airy, and a bit warmer. It also enables the hot air to escpae that does enter in summer. IMO - home owner and builders need to start being a little more open in their thinking to achieve the best possible out of the "pigs ear" that many developers have been allowed to get away with as block layout and orientation goes. But until orientated blocks and estates are mandated - lets do the best we can. But home owners and builders need to change and think in different ways about what is really required to make a house enjoyable to live in. It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory. W. Edwards Deming Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 12Sep 08, 2009 7:42 am Thanks to everyone for all this information... Just to clarify a little bit... the diagram shows the house as it is going to be on the block. The driveway/crossover is on the right so I can't really flip the house over without having the added expense of relocating the driveway. The blocks on either side of mine are the same size as mine... around 350m2 with a frontage of 10.5m. I'm guessing this means that this means they'll probably be small single storey houses like mine (at least... I'm hoping they will). One thing I've decided to do is to upgrade the insulation in the roof and walls so that at least if I have to compensate for lack of (or too much) sun I can try and be efficient about it. I'm planning on having a pergola/alfresco area extending out from the dining room in the NE corner - hopefully that won't make things too dark. I'm putting in a couple of skylights (in the kitchen and the 3rd bedroom) so hopefully this will lighten things up a bit as well. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 13Sep 08, 2009 8:15 am Piper, skylights are a great idea for any dark liveing areas, we had one in our kitchen and dining room in old house and makes a huge difference for a relatively small cost (few hundred dollars), some of which you will recoup in reduced lighting costs. However I wouldnt put one in a bedroom as there are times when you want a bedroom to be dark during the day - say when you are sleeping in or sick in bed. I beleive you can get close-able ones but not sure if they are a lot dearer Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 14Sep 08, 2009 8:28 am Helyn However I wouldnt put one in a bedroom as there are times when you want a bedroom to be dark during the day - say when you are sleeping in or sick in bed. I beleive you can get close-able ones but not sure if they are a lot dearer I did consider this, but primarily that bedroom is going to be a study/sewing room for me. If I have guests over (which I rarely do) then they'll be sleeping in there, but I figured they can just put up with it for a night or two I didn't know you could get closeable ones... I might have to look at that later on. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 15Sep 08, 2009 11:50 am Macy Seems to me covenants and energy ratings are increasing while some of the simplest most basic things that could be done are being neglected. I don't understand. Most estates I've looked at have covenants on minimum house sizes. I can't understand this as aren't we are all meant to be saving energy. A larger house is always going to use more energy than a smaller house (given the same construction and usage patterns). Up until now designers have been able to achieve the energy rating by simply putting in more insulation. With energy ratings increaing this may not be possible, so estate design which allows solar access will become much more important. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 16Sep 09, 2009 12:26 am Piper you're on the right track. I'd suggest R3.5 or R4 for the ceiling and R2 or 2.5 for the walls, and go for a closable skylight in the bedroom. Whilst you may never use it, the next owners may see it as an advanatge. Good luck with the build. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 17Sep 10, 2009 1:11 pm Piper go with a velux skylight, double glzaed with a blockout blind. You then have the best of all worlds. Make sure you roof has sarking in it. This will make a big difference to you summer comfort. Re: North facing? South facing?? What's best?? 18Sep 12, 2009 8:48 pm Yak_Chat I have no eaves on my current house on the northern or southern walls and I'm actually liking the ability of being able to control the sun as and when I desire - as opposed to when the suns angle desires. In southern climes when cooler summer days can occur - it gives me more flexibility and also the same flexibility on the edges of the seasons. Hi YC, I am interested in what system you are using for controlling solar gain. The solutions that I have seen are either bespoke, fiddly and not durable; or very expensive. The warning is on the sticker on the door too. Second the aluminium powdercoat 6 18177 It might be a bit darker in the mornings but the light is still light, so you should be getting it. Similar to what you see from your western windows 3 19971 Well these guys are not looking good... I sent them a written enquiry last week and they have not yet replied. If they cannot respond to a simple… 4 10624 |