Browse Forums Eco Living 1 Jul 01, 2009 2:27 pm I would really love to go green, but my husband and family aren't convinced that it's all that it's cracked up to be. We are just about to buy a new home (pre-existing) and I thought that might be a good chance to look into things. Firstly, the new house has a pool and I was considering solar heating. I have two girls, both under 2, and I think that we will get more use out of a pool if it is heated in the hump seasons. I know that solar heating still requires some electricity for the pump. Do you have a solar heated pool? How well does it work? How much does it cost to run?? Don't know if it makes any difference but it's salt water. Can't remember if it is concrete or fiberglass but is inground. I have also always wanted to get more info on solar panels for home electricity. My husband says that he has heard panels need to be replaced every 10 years, presumably at a high cost. We wouldn't qualify for the rebate even though Im a stay at home Mum, so even at $500 a quarter (which our bill wouldn't be) we would just about have recouped our initial costs when we would be up for costs again. I have also said that we could sell power back to the grid, but he is also skeptical at how effective this would be. I also love the idea of a back up battery. The house also has ducted air conditioning, will this work with solar? Would love to hear from some real people about your experiences with home solar power. My parents have a solar hot water system. It only takes a slightly over cast day and they have to switch the system to grid power (was supposed to be a good system). It takes more power then to heat the water from cold than it would have had it been on the grid the whole time. Is home power the same? Is it ineffective on overcast days? How do I know what size system I would need? Sorry for the flustered, glaringly newbie questions. Don't even know where to start and appreciate honest comments and opinions. Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 2Jul 02, 2009 9:46 pm No worries Burrow Bunnie about newbie questions. 1. Solar panels often have a 25 year warranty. 2. You will save $200 - $400 on electricity ie. 10 year + pay off period depending on your rebate (ducted air conditioning will work fine, but will chew a heap more power the panels can generate). Full price (no rebate) is about $12K to install, and I think from 2 july you will get about 4.5K back from the government. 3. Solar hot water is great for environment if you have an electric hot water system, but doesn't make as much difference if you are on natural gas. You can see a bit about this stuff at my website www.greenesthome.com.au - I have done a bit of this to 2 houses so try and put down as much stuff as I can here. 4. Solar heating of the pool is great adding a couple of months to your swiming at each end of the year. But it does use some power, having said that you are already using a some with filetr pumps anyway, an extra pump wont make that much difference. Where are you living? What are you trying to do - save money? be green? improve your comfort. I would always look at draught sealing, insulation before solar power as it will have a much better $ outcome and comfort (but not as impressive as those panels on your roof!) Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 3Jul 06, 2009 4:08 pm Thanks for your response, Lambchoppa. I am looking to be green but know that I wont be able to sell the idea to my hubby if it isn't cost effective. We will be checking out the insulation when we move in as our previous house was well insulated and you could really tell the difference. We are also big on quality blinds and curtains for heat/cool. We are also looking at putting either french or large sliding doors to the rear of the house which will give awesome airflow in summer. Would love to hear more about green power. Have seen the link for sustainable house day and am going to see if there are any in my local area. Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 4Jul 06, 2009 6:39 pm There was a good article on the Sydney morning herald on the weekend about a sydney man who has installed a 3 kw solar system / solar hotwater /solartubes ect. Do a search on there site and see if you can find it. Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 5Jul 06, 2009 7:19 pm Demolition August 2009, Construction Started September 2009, Completed December 2010 Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 6Jul 06, 2009 9:24 pm Burrow bunnie I'd suggest you get the solar pool heating system to make it useable for longer. As for solar power, as you'll be a stay at home mum I don't think you'll be selling any power back to the system because most systems at present do a deduction of generated power versus used power in your house and if the use power is greater, what you generate does not count to be sold. My suggestion, go with the pool heater, and then make your house as energy efficient as you can - which will be more of a benefit to you than a solar power system would be. Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 7Jul 12, 2009 2:23 pm There was also a lift-out feature in the Sunday Tele a few weeks or a couple of months ago, explaining the difference between solar electricity, solar hot water, and other general energy-saving articles. Again, try their website for a downloadable version of it... It sounds like you already know the difference between the two, so I wont go into that here... I have inspected a few dozen solar electricity installations over the last few weeks, and have been surprised at the amounts different customers have been feeding back into the grid. Out of all the jobs, only two customers have put back more than what they have used off the grid. One customer r had put 0 back into the grid - the panel installers had mounted almost all the panels underneath a tree (I don't know what planet they were from and how many suns it had so that a tree makes no shadows!). Remember too that the rate at which the retailer pays you for your solar electricity is 4-6 times higher than the price you buy it from them (depending on which state you are in). I'd need a massive amount of solar panels to offset how much power we use - our bills show we use 25-37kWhrs/day (depending on season), so if we have a 1kw system and it gets 8hours of full sunlight, we'd generate 8kw/day - a long way off from our average daily consumption! If we used most of that power during non-daylight hours, we'd be better-off, as the solar would be generating and pumping back into the grid during the peak energy time... Also the rebate scheme has changed - there is no means test, and I believe also businesses are also eligble to apply for it. I have an old ducted a/c (with a 3-phase, 3.75HP outdoor unit) I am considering upgrading. Our bills are between $380-$500/quarter which I believe is mostly the the a/c in summer, as we have solar hot water (which has been switched on boost for the last month or so because of all the cloudy days we've had in Sydney lately!). If you have an inverter a/c unit, I believe your bill wouldn't be anywhere near as high as mine! FYI, our last bill I think had the lowest off-peak component over the last few years, totalling only $28. Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 8Jul 12, 2009 3:46 pm Burrow Bunnie I would really love to go green, but my husband and family aren't convinced that it's all that it's cracked up to be. the new house has a pool and I was considering solar heating I have also always wanted to get more info on solar panels for home electricity. I have also said that we could sell power back to the grid, I also love the idea of a back up battery. ducted air conditioning, will this work with solar? My parents have a solar hot water system. Some FAQS on solar powered devices: a) No free lunches - you need full sun to make significant amounts of hot water or electricity. All the quoted figures on potential savings are based on the assumption that you get a fair share of clear days during the year and that the panels are placed optimally and not shaded by anything b) Most of your savings come during the warmer and sunnier months. You summer energy bills look fantastic but don't hold your breath for major reductions in winter. Nevertheless, your overall annual bill will be reduced and that's the point of the exercise c) Solar hot water systems are the most efficient in turning sun energy into heating energy (40-80% depending on the time of the year). Solar PV panels only have an efficiency of 15%. d) The payback period (for capital cost) of solar PV panels is usually around 20-25 years (which is around the warranted period). Contrast this with solar HWS which is around 5 years. Remember a 1.5kW solar PV panels generates as much energy as a 300L solar HWS saves each year but the former is about three times the cost to install. e) Battery backup is an option. This is a form of load balancing. The excess energy you make in Summer gets to be used in Winter when you really want it. The downside is the added cost of things like inverters and batteries. Batteries also have a limited life span and contain toxic materials that need to be disposed of appropriately. There is no real advantage of using them unless you live off the grid. f) Solar PV panels make electricity so anything that runs on mains electricity can run on it. g) Solar pool collectors are just another form of solar hot water system. They work adequately for heating a pool in the warmer months but are not efficient enough for heating hot water for the house. They still need some electricity to run the recirculating pumps. My personal opinion is: a) A solar hot water system is a great idea and will save you around $450 in electricity bills a year. But don't install one if you don't have a good place to put it on the roof. Alternatively consider a heat pump which heats water with electricity but in a much more efficient manner. b) Solar pool collectors gives you some extra use out of your pool during the year but only you can decide whether this is worth it for you. c) From an economics point of view Solar PV panels are of questionable value unless you want to start a solar farm in Whyalla and sell ALL your electricity back to the supplier. I'd rather just buy green electricity where the supplier can put the panels in a decent place, look after them properly and feed the energy constantly to the grid. I can feel good knowing the technology is being used, operated in the most efficient manner and being put to good purpose. Having said all of that the best way of saving energy is not to find efficient ways of making it but looking at how you can reduce down the amount that you consume. At least 2/3rds of household energy come from operating heaters and air cons (major), fridges and clothes dryers. Lighting, cooking and minor appliances probably constitute the other third. Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 9Jul 13, 2009 9:22 am I would also make the comment that for solar hot water, this will only give you big savings if you currently have an electric hot water system. If you are running on reticulated natural gas, it will not save you much money (ie with a rinnai infinity instantaneous system my gas usage was $10 PER MONTH in summer). If you need to replace you existing gas system, go with solar boosted gas. Also, I would agree with dynomite, start with your electricity usage. Replace your globes with compact fluros, use the dryer less etc etc. Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 10Jul 14, 2009 7:16 am Thank you for all of your replies. It has given me an idea of some of the things that I wouldn't have thought to look into. I know the house is on gas but am not sure if the hot water was gas or electric, so that will be one of the first things that I look at, as well as maybe a gas heater for the main lounge room (which we are adding a door to keep the warm in). We had energy efficient globes in our last house and will replace them all in the new house as well. We also love nice big, bright skylights in the kitchen and main living areas. We are going to have these put in before we move in. We don't even have a clothes dryer anymore. We had to leave it in our last house as it was stuck to the wall. We aren't planning on replacing it. I had an undercover clothes line at our last house which meant that the clothes dryer didn't need to be used much anyway and we are going to get another one for the new house. In desperate times I can always take a load to the laudromat to dry. Have also been looking into pool blankets, which also seem to make a difference to the pool temperature without needing an electric pump. Im going to look into this a bit further before I invest in the solar hot water system. Keep the ideas coming......the more help I can get the better! Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 11Jul 14, 2009 11:09 am Burrow Bunnie Have also been looking into pool blankets, Read this: http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/w ... opic=13140 http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/w ... opic=13220 Pool heating savings > 50-70% (which can mean hundreds of $$$) Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 12Jul 14, 2009 11:13 am Burrow Bunnie I had an undercover clothes line at our last house which meant that the clothes dryer didn't need to be used much anyway and we are going to get another one for the new house. In desperate times I can always take a load to the laudromat to dry. One standout surprise we found out was that moving air makes a big difference (not just air temperature). Having the clothes sitting in a sunny room with a ceiling fan going accelerated clothes drying significant - possibly 1/3 to 1/2 the drying time. Running a ceiling fan is far cheaper than heating your clothes. Re: Solar Questions- TOTAL NEWBIE 13Nov 16, 2009 4:18 am Hi Burrow Bunnie, not sure if I am too late to chime in or not. Solar does make sense right now, read my comment in the $1/watt thread about paybacks (7-12 yrs) depending on what state you are in. I would ask the following questions: 1. Brand of the panel: Euro (read German) seem to have the best quality control. They largely sell into solar farm projects in Europe. In order for the bank to lend money to the project they have to produce extensive life cycle data (i.e. 25 yrs+ not on power output, but on sub component durability). 2. Push hard for <$8/pW installed, even high quality panels should be able to achieve this. 3. Go with a reputable retailer. If the retailer isn't publishing the brand of panel, look elsewhere. 4. Go with an inverter with a 10 yr warranty 5. Remember that a solar electricity module produces only as much power as its weakest link, so if you live in an area that is highly shaded (i.e. trees high or low over angle of incidence aspect), then you are not going to get anywhere near the rated output. Shading is very important, ask your installer to perform a shading analysis prior to installation. 6. Done be scared not to use a north facing roof, a good east or west roof is OK, you lose about 15% from true north. One of the biggest problems is that it doesnt make sense to install >1.5kW at the moment (i.e. no rebate after 1.5kW on Solar Credits scheme), so you will only perform about 25% of your household energy requirements with a 1.5kW PV system. So I would add on a solar hot water system (about another 25%). Going Solar Hot water is a tricky one, if you have an instant / storage gas, you already have a cheap solution (at least in VIC / NSW). But remember gas isnt a clean green fuel like its made out to be. Even if the world went 100% gas fired plants for producing electricity it could not meet its carbon dioxide cuts. In order of energy savings that are $/buck I would go: 1. Roof insulation 2. Solar Hot Water 3. Solar PV 4. Double Glazing Ideally all of the above, you will find that your 1.5kW of PV probably does closer to 50% of your energy if you get roof insulation and double glazing for windows / doors. Hope this helps! a building inspector should be able to tell you about any major problems but we need a floor plan with dimensions to clarify options for extra bedrooms ... sometime an… 1 8718 I looked into it a few years ago and my conclusion was to just build a carport that will support panels and get a system installed separately. The company I looked at had… 1 6481 Personally, considering your layout (study/work desks in bedrooms), I don't think you have any other option but to leave NW windows and make them as big as possible e.g.… 7 10470 |