Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Jun 30, 2015 3:34 pm Hi Guys, I was just canvassing for average prices of data points that people have been quoted by builders. Not really interested in who the electrician/builder is, more on a cross section on pricing. For my build it appears that I'm currently looking at somewhere between $180-$200 per data point (seems a little on the excessive side but meh) Any feedback would be appreciated. Chairs. Re: Average price of a data point 2Jul 02, 2015 9:29 pm Roll of cable split with my brother about $150. Crimping tool and about 100 plugs, $18 off ebay. Sparky just charged me $80 to out a TV point in, data point shouldn't be much more Re: Average price of a data point 3Jul 07, 2015 11:29 pm QuarumNibblet Hi Guys, I was just canvassing for average prices of data points that people have been quoted by builders. Not really interested in who the electrician/builder is, more on a cross section on pricing. For my build it appears that I'm currently looking at somewhere between $180-$200 per data point (seems a little on the excessive side but meh) Any feedback would be appreciated. Chairs. My build it is $96 per point for CAT5. By comparision, being a data cabler in my own build I told them outright I wouldn't pay that for CAT5 and instead have entered into an agreement with the builder and the sparky for me to provide the cable, them to run and me to terminate myself after handover. They are going to charge about $1000 in labour to pull the cables through (they won't let me on site, despite having all the WHS cards and my own insurance), this is to pull through about 30 outlets. To me the cost is $500 for 2 rolls of cable, $150 for two patch panels, $1000 in labour for sparky, plus $15 per run. So about $70 per run, excluding my time. So in reality a figure close to $100 for a CAT6 cable is quite reasonable (not for CAT5), but your price you are being robbed. Re: Average price of a data point 4Jul 08, 2015 2:05 am Mine was 320 for every additional data point. Could not be bothered arguing by the time we got to that bit of the 3 day prestart....... Re: Average price of a data point 5Jul 23, 2015 1:37 pm We were charged $2300 for 13 points and a 24 port Krone patch panel. Some of those were 4 points on a faceplate, others were doubles. Don't get cat5, your limited to 100Mbps where Cat6 can get Gigabit and if you have the hardware can get 10Gbps on short runs. If you can get it done by a 3rd party then try, the builder will throw 30% on it. Also, in regards to doing it yourself: All customer cabling work in the telecommunications, fire, security and data industries must be performed by a registered cabler. This includes all fixed cabling that connects to, or is intended to be connected to the telecommunications network. All data network systems that connect to or may be connected in the future to the telecommunications network are included in this requirement. In summary, if the cabling is run through a wall, ceiling, floor or crawl space, it must be installed by a registered cabler. This includes the use of pre-terminated cables and 'clip-through' keystone jacks/wallplates. If you are aware of these regulations, not a registered cabler and decide to install cable regardless, be aware that you are solely responsible for your actions and their consequences. More info here on the ACMA website http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Telco/I ... quirements Re: Average price of a data point 6Jul 29, 2015 1:56 pm I have the conduit on the single wall with data point outlets and outlets on the double wall side in the prestart drawing design then asked the electrician to run the Cat6 data cable through each point and terminated the jacks / wall plates. That costs me around $40 including parts and labour. Re: Average price of a data point 7Jul 29, 2015 8:24 pm KcHongHa I have the conduit on the single wall with data point outlets and outlets on the double wall side in the prestart drawing design then asked the electrician to run the Cat6 data cable through each point and terminated the jacks / wall plates. That costs me around $40 including parts and labour. Sure it is cat6 and not cat5? That price seems very very low for cat6. Re: Average price of a data point 9Jul 30, 2015 9:29 am Yes and no. No in that you cannot do it by simply plugging in. You can however buy adaptors that convert HDMI into a signal that can use CAT6. But far from perfect. If new build or reno best to run HDMI cable too. But depends upon your own application really. Re: Average price of a data point 10Jul 31, 2015 1:05 am Thanks mate was just thinking about the overhead projector. Think I'll go HDMI in a good quality thickness cheers Re: Average price of a data point 11Aug 11, 2015 11:58 am Christoshizz Thanks mate was just thinking about the overhead projector. Think I'll go HDMI in a good quality thickness cheers HDMI is a digital format, so converting between mediums wont change the "quality" of the signal, a 1 is a 1 and a 0 is still a 0. You do have distance restrictions and these can be overcome with powered cables/extenders. It's unlikely you will run into problems in something as small as a house unless you are trying to run video signals between multiple rooms but don't fall into the "let's get us a nice expensive cable" to transport something that it in essence, digital data. (taken from your comment about "quality" and "thickness" as the two do not necessarily go hand in hand) Re: Average price of a data point 12Aug 11, 2015 1:07 pm QuarumNibblet Christoshizz Thanks mate was just thinking about the overhead projector. Think I'll go HDMI in a good quality thickness cheers HDMI is a digital format, so converting between mediums wont change the "quality" of the signal, a 1 is a 1 and a 0 is still a 0. You do have distance restrictions and these can be overcome with powered cables/extenders. There is a lot lot lot more to it than that. Whilst you are right that a 1 is a 1 and a zero is a zero, how that data is presented makes all the world of difference. HDMI uses 19 wires to represent ones and zeros and to get them to the other end. CAT6 only has 8 wires. So HDMI to CAT6 adaptors are a bit more than just converting one cable and connector to another. They essentially process the HDMI signal, then convert it into something that that can use the CAT6 cable, then at the other end reprocess and convert back. The processing and reprocessing is where the orginal signal can and does get distored, even if it is digital. Ends up being like chinese whispers, the orginal message gets distored the number of times it needs to be releayed. Re: Average price of a data point 13Aug 11, 2015 5:03 pm AJW QuarumNibblet Christoshizz Thanks mate was just thinking about the overhead projector. Think I'll go HDMI in a good quality thickness cheers HDMI is a digital format, so converting between mediums wont change the "quality" of the signal, a 1 is a 1 and a 0 is still a 0. You do have distance restrictions and these can be overcome with powered cables/extenders. There is a lot lot lot more to it than that. Whilst you are right that a 1 is a 1 and a zero is a zero, how that data is presented makes all the world of difference. HDMI uses 19 wires to represent ones and zeros and to get them to the other end. CAT6 only has 8 wires. So HDMI to CAT6 adaptors are a bit more than just converting one cable and connector to another. They essentially process the HDMI signal, then convert it into something that that can use the CAT6 cable, then at the other end reprocess and convert back. The processing and reprocessing is where the orginal signal can and does get distored, even if it is digital. Ends up being like chinese whispers, the orginal message gets distored the number of times it needs to be releayed. Wait, what? While this may be slightly off topic to this forum, please stop spreading this FUD. The thing with digital is that things can be perfectly replicated. The way this is achieved when you move from a massively parallel medium to a serial medium can tend to get complex, but if things happened the way you suggested then the internet really wouldn't exist, people spend a LOT of time ensuring that bit order is maintained, Look up error correcting codes as an example for coping with lost bits in a data stream, and checksumming/hashing for validation of the integrity of the data. "Signal distortion" is not a thing in non realtime video applications such as we are discussing here (yes, to some degree it applies to real time communications but sending a video signal from a player to a viewing device is not in this category and the 'signal distortion' is STILL not due to anything you mentioned) Re: Average price of a data point 14Aug 11, 2015 5:58 pm QuarumNibblet AJW QuarumNibblet There is a lot lot lot more to it than that. Whilst you are right that a 1 is a 1 and a zero is a zero, how that data is presented makes all the world of difference. HDMI uses 19 wires to represent ones and zeros and to get them to the other end. CAT6 only has 8 wires. So HDMI to CAT6 adaptors are a bit more than just converting one cable and connector to another. They essentially process the HDMI signal, then convert it into something that that can use the CAT6 cable, then at the other end reprocess and convert back. The processing and reprocessing is where the orginal signal can and does get distored, even if it is digital. Ends up being like chinese whispers, the orginal message gets distored the number of times it needs to be releayed. Wait, what? While this may be slightly off topic to this forum, please stop spreading this FUD. The thing with digital is that things can be perfectly replicated. The way this is achieved when you move from a massively parallel medium to a serial medium can tend to get complex, but if things happened the way you suggested then the internet really wouldn't exist, people spend a LOT of time ensuring that bit order is maintained, Look up error correcting codes as an example for coping with lost bits in a data stream, and checksumming/hashing for validation of the integrity of the data. "Signal distortion" is not a thing in non realtime video applications such as we are discussing here (yes, to some degree it applies to real time communications but sending a video signal from a player to a viewing device is not in this category and the 'signal distortion' is STILL not due to anything you mentioned) What ever, I've explained it to you once. Maybe you better read up some more. Try here: https://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20Extend ... cables.htm Re: Average price of a data point 15Aug 12, 2015 12:22 pm AJW What ever, I've explained it to you once. Maybe you better read up some more. Try here: https://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20Extend ... cables.htm Wow, way to not understand the link you posted. The link you posted was detailing issues with cable length, not with converting between an HDMI cable and an ethernet extension. The issues highlighted here are typical of any high frequency transmission, and are common amongst all digital data communications mediums. This is _why_ they say that the maximum transmission length is around 10meters for an HDMI cable, and why you can sometimes get better ranges with thicker cables or with active (powered) cables, but if you want any form of real distance ( >10m ) then use a range extender (HDMI -> cat6 -> HDMI as an example but there are others) otherwise you'll probably have a bad day (due to the reasons stated in your article) Co-incidentally, this is also why ethernet has maximum lengths and why gigabit ethernet caused all sorts of problems when it first came out, and were solved using preambles to pad out the signal, and why fibre also has similar distance issues and why you could unplug the terminating resistor on the end of a length of RG58 and cause the network to crash. Good times. This has around zero to do with converting from an HDMI cable into a cat6 extension and back again. As stated previously, this problem has been done to death in the transmission world, you may want to do some of your own research, try starting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplexing Also, as for processing, this would presume that the device _does_ something to the signal in some way, these extenders tend to be especially dumb units that can be made with no smarts in them whatsoever - in essence an ASIC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicati ... ed_circuit ). Yes your pocket phone from 2005 will have more processing power than this extender, but nothing will match the way it can multiplex signals from your HDMI cable, to the cat6 cable and back again. Re: Average price of a data point 16Aug 12, 2015 12:55 pm QuarumNibblet Also, as for processing, this would presume that the device _does_ something to the signal in some way, these extenders tend to be especially dumb units that can be made with no smarts in them whatsoever - in essence an ASIC ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applicati ... ed_circuit ). Yes your pocket phone from 2005 will have more processing power than this extender, but nothing will match the way it can multiplex signals from your HDMI cable, to the cat6 cable and back again. I know full well what a multiplexer is, I work in the comms industry and until IP became more prevelant it was been my bread and butter for a number of years (since 1990). Remember the Scitex Maxima, NPX25's, BSP72's etc. Worked on them all and know full well the issues you get when multiplexing signals and the like together. I also know full well that even though data may well be 1 and 0's how that data gets clocked in, out, buffer sizes, transport mechanism etc (what I call processing) can and does effect the quality of the data stream when carried to and is de-multiplexed at the far end. With or without error correction and the like. As for HDMI it is synchronous protocol where the data gets clocked into a device using a separate clock signal. The ‘processing’ that I refer to is the act of receiving that data, buffering it sufficiently, multiplexing it with the other streams, then sending it out the CAT6 cable in an aysncronous data stream, receiving it at the other end, generating a clock, de-multiplexing and then hopefully sending the data out the way it first arrived. For the cheap end units this can lead to a degradation in the signal, which can result in pixilation, audio hiccups and sync issues. The biggest issue is the quality of the clock that is used in the recieving unit to re-clock the data out and also the size of the buffers and the processing poiwer in the sending unit. Cheaper units it can and does drift which can and does cause issues. Re: Average price of a data point 17Aug 18, 2015 12:37 am You cannot compare the price of a data point in a way of 2 mates who went to Bunnings and purchased tools and cable themselves and paid each-other with beers compared to a insured, registered, licensed business etc who is doing work on your home. There is also many different ways you can install, run and terminate data cable so the quality of the job depends on who is doing it and what they charge, this is why we have certain guidelines and regulations that need to be followed. Antenna Direct Perth www.antennadirect.com.au 0423919037 Get your home NBN Ready Smart Wiring and Structured Cabling in Perth Antenna Installations | TV Wall Mounting | Data Cabling HD Security Camera Systems / CCTV Re: Average price of a data point 18Aug 18, 2015 7:50 am yep... my builder wanted $200 per point. Screw that, broke into my site and and ran 40~ odd points (IT Pro with servers, media centres, IP Security System & voip phone system) with the help of my mates before gyprock went up. I'm sorry but $8000 dollars for points that took me and my mates around 4 hours to run is ridiculous just another cash grab. Re: Average price of a data point 19Aug 18, 2015 10:00 am BJ88 You cannot compare the price of a data point in a way of 2 mates who went to Bunnings and purchased tools and cable themselves and paid each-other with beers compared to a insured, registered, licensed business etc who is doing work on your home. There is also many different ways you can install, run and terminate data cable so the quality of the job depends on who is doing it and what they charge, this is why we have certain guidelines and regulations that need to be followed. As a licenced cabler I can say with certainty the prices some people on here have been quoted, including myself is nothing short of price gouging extortion. Read my post above, I've used quality Krone Cable, Pandui MiniCom jacks and had to pay labour to a sparky (who I have no doubt has far less data cabling experience than me), and still the cost came in at an average of $70 per run. Even allowing for the added costs of running a business cannot see how one can justify an average cost of $100 again using quality materials. Yet some people are quoting $200 per run for Cat5e. Re: Average price of a data point 20Aug 31, 2015 10:13 pm I understand your point and agree that some providers do overcharge for some works. I also do need to mention, I went to get a lawyer last week, and questioned why some of them can charge $220 for a consultation and others $60 when it's the same thing. What I don't like it is when people like to draw comparisons between a bunch of mates using tools from Bunnings and spares purchased from Gumtree doing a job for beer or food as an indication of what they should be paying the builder. The Communications Alliance sets rules/standards (200+ Page) document in regards to telecoms cabling, that I see are not followed even to basic levels by most people who are cabling up new homes. Tip if your building, if the builders are charging too much, ask them to leave conduits in your desired rooms, then get a data cabler to lay all the cabling after the build is done. 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