Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Oct 08, 2014 11:36 pm Hi guys, This is my first time building a house and I am not to experienced in data cabling requirements for NBN and the best locations for data points within the house. So my builder allows me to have 1 CAT6 data point and 1 TV coaxial point. A family member is an electrician and said will add more points once the house is finished, however I am a little sceptical how hard this will be once the walls are up. My home theatre has a TV recess and also has soundproof insulation which is located directly behind the study. I plan on having a PC in the study and using SMART TV capabilities but not sure to use WIFI for all devices in the house or if this is even recommended/possible? Where would the best place be to install the data point in this case, HT or study? or have the data point up hidden in the robe of the study? I would imagine sound proofing insulation would make moving cables through the walls difficult or practically impossible. With NBN, it is recommended to have the router in the garage or somewhere within the house? Thank you for help, greatly appreciated. Re: cabling plan 2Oct 10, 2014 10:01 pm Regarding running cables, it's best to do it all during build. Sure you can run cables after build but that requires disturbing the house, removing tiles and if you have insulation in some walls running cables can be very hard. Your builder may have a smart wiring installer who they work with that can install all the points and cabling for you how you like. Certain points such as ones going on single brick walls are very costly to do once the house is built, to add to many other reasons that it's important to pre-cable when the house is being built, or put provisions for it everywhere. The best place to install data points is where you need to use them. It appears as one data point is not enough for you, so if your builder is limiting you to only one or your budget only allows you to only install one, then install it in the place where you will make most use out of it. If you are going to use the router to network all your data points together, then ideally the best place is in the garage, as this is where most of the data cabling from all the rooms runs to and is near the NBN NTD (NBN Box). Having the router in the kitchen for example may yield better wireless coverage and speed if it's a larger home, and you can use a Ethernet switch with the appropriate amount of ports for your home at the hub near the NBN NTD. Antenna Direct Perth www.antennadirect.com.au 0423919037 Get your home NBN Ready Smart Wiring and Structured Cabling in Perth Antenna Installations | TV Wall Mounting | Data Cabling HD Security Camera Systems / CCTV Re: cabling plan 3Oct 12, 2014 12:39 am Thanks for your response BJ88. What will be the benefit of having my router in the garage near the NTD compared to the study which located central in the house? I was planning of having the HUB located in the study and a network switch to then distribute other lines. At this point I will try to allow for conduit in the timber framing for areas I want wired connection and proceed with the drop after construction. $90 a data point is a bit much to ask for. Thanks for your help Re: cabling plan 5Oct 12, 2014 7:58 am Location of the hub doesnt really matter in technical sense. WHat matter is physical access, and future proofing. I would have a small interface point / space in the garage ( presumably near where NBN comes in) , just in case things change. This could just be an in-line CAT6 socket-socket, then continue direct to the hub-space (study?). Im having 3 Hub spaces because my house is so long, and to future proof, Im running ( unterminated ) CAT6 to all possible places, so its sitting there if I ever need it. Northern Adelaide, Format Homes '16-'17 after failed Bondor OB Re: cabling plan 6Jan 20, 2015 11:27 am Yep, I got quoted $140 by one contractor and $90 by another for each end to end point, this is during build stage. :\ Odd thing is, another electrician who works on Coral Homes but in a different suburb area does it much cheaper ($60). Am seriously considering to distribute the ethernet wires from the hub area to the rooms and get the electrician to terminate them and plug them into the socket. In my house plan, I have the NBN box in garage, with a data point connecting it to the meals area. Meals area will have my nbn modem/wireless router for best wireless coverage through out the house. Behind the router will be the patched data ports connecting to each room. For now I have enough ports in the router to connect it straight to the wall ports and then use a dumb switch in rooms to connect to my devices. Edit: Hmm.. I should have checked the last post date Re: cabling plan 7Jan 20, 2015 11:56 am Unless you have a cabling registration with a structured cabling endorsement it is illegal to run your own data cabling. It is also illegal for the registered cabler to terminate cables that they have not run themselves or actively supervised the running of. Re: cabling plan 8Jan 20, 2015 4:53 pm paulw11 Unless you have a cabling registration with a structured cabling endorsement it is illegal to run your own data cabling. It is also illegal for the registered cabler to terminate cables that they have not run themselves or actively supervised the running of. Oh joy Well thanks for the heads up... I'll shop around for a better price, or go with the $90 option it looks like it. Re: cabling plan 9Feb 12, 2015 4:44 pm Its the old story of details.. One contractor is probably using high quality fittings and cable where the other is using stuff that isn't Australian approved.. Yes it will all work but how long for? The dearer guy may do a perfect job and look like they were never there and the other could cut holes everywhere and trash you place... Re: cabling plan 11Feb 22, 2015 2:02 pm Built_Boards Its the old story of details.. One contractor is probably using high quality fittings and cable where the other is using stuff that isn't Australian approved.. Yes it will all work but how long for? The dearer guy may do a perfect job and look like they were never there and the other could cut holes everywhere and trash you place... It's just cat6 running from one room to other. There isn't really anything you can mess up there. And if you buy your equipment from an Australian retailer, how is that equipment not approved? I know the laws are there for a reason, and it's technically illegal to do it without a licensed supervisor at least. But running a cable from one room to other during frame stage and keeping it away from the live wires isn't rocket science. Re: cabling plan 12Feb 22, 2015 2:04 pm Crazyk Just run the cables if the builder will allow. I know you need to be licensed but seriously there really will be no harm. Who comes in to check that you're licensed? Builder didn't allow, so picked an external contractor and coughed up $90 per port. I should look at what it takes to get that license done for future uses Re: cabling plan 13Feb 22, 2015 6:06 pm I've got FTTP NBN at my place. Got the NBN gear installed in a wardrobe in one of the spare rooms central to the house. WiFi router sits in the wardrobe. I've installed a 12 port Cat6 patch panel next to the NBN gear, with cat6 double data in each bedroom (x 4) and quad data behind the TV. Realistically the entertainment hub is the most data-heavy part of most "smart" homes. When we got NBN we got rid of Foxtel and went with a 100mbps unlimited upload/download plan so we can watch IP content streaming with our Samsung Smart TV. Got an overseas DNS address so we can stream Netflix for $15 a month - better than $60 a month for Foxtel. We don't use the outlets in the other rooms, WiFi is just too convenient for portable devices. If you're scrimping on the finances, I'd just make sure at a minimum that you have at least two or three data outlets behind each TV/entertainment hub run back to your NBN NTD location. In terms of pricing, for a single data outlet in a domestic installation, $90 is pretty good, $140 is upper end. $10 for a RJ45 jack, $20 worth of cable, $10 for a jack for the other end, $5 per wall plate, $5 for brackets and clips, and half an hour labour per point ($35-40) to rough-in then come back, fit off and test. You can't argue with $90 being fair and reasonable. Let's give the guys a break, they need to earn a living somehow, and they won't earn it by what measly pricing the volume builders screw them down to on standard inclusions. I did all mine myself because I am a former electrician and still have my electrical and ACMA cabling licences. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: cabling plan 14Feb 22, 2015 6:12 pm shadowarrior Crazyk Just run the cables if the builder will allow. I know you need to be licensed but seriously there really will be no harm. Who comes in to check that you're licensed? Builder didn't allow, so picked an external contractor and coughed up $90 per port. I should look at what it takes to get that license done for future uses That sounds like a good approach crazy. Why not do the electrical and plumbing as well, who's gonna know (until someone gets electrocuted or you end up with sewerage through your house)... How about we respect the people who have gone to the effort of training and gaining a qualification and a licence to install safe and operational services in accordance with the law. And the cost of getting the licence is about 4 years of getting paid extremely low wages as an apprentice and learning how to safely and effectively install electrical and communications services, plus the $150 ACMA Open Cabling licence fee every 3 years, plus the $1500 per year PL insurance that the installer pays, so on.... Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: cabling plan 15Feb 22, 2015 6:17 pm Yes you are right. We are really going to get electrocuted with cat6 cabling. Good one. Yes people have to be accredited to regulate the industry. We are talking about doing it to your own home not starting a business. I bet nearly all OB would be roughing in the cabling themselves. Besides who do you think really does plumbing and electrical rough in? It's unqualified apprentices, why? Because it's cheap labour. The qualified guys go and check it and sign it off. Re: cabling plan 16Feb 22, 2015 6:34 pm The laws and standards are there for a reason, and the reasons are well understood by the qualified and trained people who write the standards and then follow them. The reason are obviously not well understood by those who merely think they know what they're talking about. The thing with "standards" is that they only achieve their stated objective when people actually follow them. I wasn't implying that someone could get electrocuted from cat6 cabling - not sure where you got that from - but it is technically possible if the cabling is not installed correctly (i.e. inductance from electrical cabling without adequate segregation). http://www.fpaa.com.au/media/45165/776_ ... lowres.pdf http://www.acma.gov.au/Industry/Telco/I ... quirements Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: cabling plan 17Feb 23, 2015 12:33 am 1960sModernistHome but it is technically possible if the cabling is not installed correctly (i.e. inductance from electrical cabling without adequate segregation). One goes from the inside, the other goes from the outside border of the frame. That's exactly how others have run the wires. And its easy to do during frame stage. If I have the restricted license, I don't see how I am any different to the other communications guy charging me $140 per data port if I want to do the ethernet cabling of my own house. It is pretty much same as servicing your car. Some are not comfortable to work on their cars and pay $400 for a normal service. Others take the time and put an effort in learning about it, buying the right tools and working on their own car by themselves. There are barriers to entry to some skills. That's why everyone is not an aeronautical engineer. For some, networking is not a skill set they have and is hard to understand/get into; to me maybe plumbing is. If doing a course and 80 hours experience can get a person more experience than someone who has dealt with I.T and Networking hardware for good 12+ years including setting up and managing Cisco switches, then that is one tough certification I am guessing. Re: cabling plan 18Feb 23, 2015 7:21 am Be that as it may, the fact remains that it is a licenced trade, just like plumbing, gasfitting, electrical and building. The legislation is clear. There is no legislation against servicing ones own car, although not a bad analogy in the sense that the reason why specialist mechanics charge $400 for a service is because they spend big money on specialised tools and diagnostic equipment, staff training and so on - a bit like a good electrical/communication contractor. I don't know how much they are these days, but 5 years ago A Fluke link tester cost about $20,000, for example. So things like that are probably why the guy charges more. $140 per point is the low end of average for a Krone/Molex certified installation. The main reason why it's a licenced trade is because once customer cabling gets connected to the carrier network, it becomes an extension of the carrier network and becomes a potential risk to network integrity. The idea of it being a licenced trade is to regulate the quality of cabling work to mitigate these risks. I'm not saying that every licenced cabler does a great job, nor am I saying that someone without the licence is not capable of doing it - but that's just how standardization works. I can't stop you or anyone else from going against the legislation and doing unlicensed cabling work. All I can do is let you know that is what you're doing. Building Services Engineer Renovating our 1960's modernist home in Brisbane https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=82091 Re: cabling plan 19Feb 23, 2015 8:50 am Qualified or not? Most work detail comes down to pride. Eg my plumber fits 88deg junctions to my sewer system 8 years on and now he's cutting my slab in 4 sections to replace with 45/45 why because he was an idiot who thought this would work even though at the time it was legal. also lays pips over rocks with no back fill surrounding pipe result damaged pipe. and fits my bath with mortar and chipboard for base support THATS RIGHT CHIP BOARD guess what 4 weeks later im fixing it my self my house is a classic example of QUALIFIED tradespersons being stupid morons that shouldnt have a license. Go ahead and run those cat6 cables you will prob do a better job than most electricians why? because its your house and you actually give a crap about it. Re: cabling plan 20Feb 23, 2015 9:06 am At the end of the day, you are spending upwards of 250k for the build, many people on these forums are spending over 300k and more.. another few hundred dollars for extra points is hardly a big deal. Your electrical appointment, regardless, is going to be a big cost for many people. Expect an electrical appointment to be around $2000 to $3000 extra, but it can be a lot more depending on how many extra downlights and electrical stuff you want, for a "basic" but functional plan. This includes extra lights, power points, tv points, data points and so on. We made the mistake of not getting an extra couple of data points that we later wish we had.. We're hoping we'll be able to hook up with the data cable installer during the build to have them add those two more. Data point is always going to be better than wifi. So where ever you even suspect you will use the internet, whether it be for desktop or laptop computers or a connection to your smart TV, put in a data point. For a 2 story house, I'd expect no less than 4 or 5 data points. If you want to be 100% certain of future-proofing the house, put a data point in EVERY room of the house except wet areas. 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