Run In = Conduit no matter which way you look at it.
Wrong.
cable runs are either conduit run or "free run". "Run in" is not automatically a reference a type of run, just the run itself.
Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 21Aug 29, 2014 3:46 pm enkayz Run In = Conduit no matter which way you look at it. Wrong. cable runs are either conduit run or "free run". "Run in" is not automatically a reference a type of run, just the run itself. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 22Aug 29, 2014 3:48 pm Ithink your approach should be to first try to argue your case politely, if they knock you back and can articulate their position logically, then just ask them how much it will be to fix it to your EXACT specifications, and just pay for it. given this is your comms for the forseeable future, do it now before you walls go up. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 23Aug 29, 2014 4:03 pm Ponzu Ithink your approach should be to first try to argue your case politely, if they knock you back and can articulate their position logically, then just ask them how much it will be to fix it to your EXACT specifications, and just pay for it. given this is your comms for the forseeable future, do it now before you walls go up. Thanks for the advice. I think in the context of the line directly after 'NBN COMPLIANT RUN-IN', RUN-IN definatley means conduit! If anything, this was an implied guarantee by the builder by not ever offering me to pay for what I was talking about what I wanted. I couldn't have been more clear that I wanted to pull fibre through conduit between points at some point in the future, and I was not given conduit between points. I am learning now that if you don't specifically request every tiny detail, you will get stooged at every possible point. Which is a shame because I could have probably picked a less expensive company if I had known things like Cat5 would be installed if I didn't specifically order and pay extra. For the price of a single data point I could buy enough Cat6a to do several houses end-to-end. I expected the cost to include the conduit. Everything was as expensive as I thought it would be for what I thought I was getting. Evidently, they wanted $230 a point for less than 10m of conduit and no terminations. Which is an outright rip off and nobody would ever pay that amount for it. It's time to go be polite to the builder! Edit; fixed price typo! Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 24Aug 29, 2014 4:21 pm enkayz For the price of a single data point I could buy enough Cat6a to do several houses end-to-end. I expected the cost to include the conduit. Everything was as expensive as I thought it would be for what I thought I was getting. Evidently, they wanted $280 a point for less than 10m of conduit and no terminations. Which is an outright rip off and nobody would ever pay that amount for it. It's time to go be polite to the builder! $280 a point!!!!! Wow thats crazy!!! Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 25Aug 29, 2014 6:26 pm No wonder you thought what you thought. 85 is standard for a point. Thats with margin Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 26Aug 29, 2014 6:56 pm Ponzu No wonder you thought what you thought. 85 is standard for a point. Thats with margin I honestly think I've been deceived horribly, because if the price had come back at something representative of what was to be installed, I would have queried the hell out of it! In fact, the price came back at pretty much what I was expecting, plus a bit more; which I thought was margin. Given my requests and my understanding of the nature of the work it was a price I was willing to accept. Instead I accepted a quote simply for '12 data points at $230'. I hate to cite consumer law, but deception and implied guarantees are given to all this work. And $230 per point implies, at the very minimum, Cat6! Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 27Aug 29, 2014 6:57 pm sogg enkayz For the price of a single data point I could buy enough Cat6a to do several houses end-to-end. I expected the cost to include the conduit. Everything was as expensive as I thought it would be for what I thought I was getting. Evidently, they wanted $280 a point for less than 10m of conduit and no terminations. Which is an outright rip off and nobody would ever pay that amount for it. It's time to go be polite to the builder! $280 a point!!!!! Wow thats crazy!!! Sorry it was $230 a point, didn't see the typo, but that's still a crazy price! Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 28Aug 29, 2014 7:35 pm Yeah id actually raise the massive discrepancy with the builder. Highlight his competition charge 85. Geez im getting a couple extra put in post hand over at 90. 230 is absurd for standard. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 29Aug 29, 2014 10:22 pm Ponzu Yeah id actually raise the massive discrepancy with the builder. Highlight his competition charge 85. Geez im getting a couple extra put in post hand over at 90. 230 is absurd for standard. Yeah, I emailed them asking for the quote from the cabler so I could find out what was meant to be included in the $230 for 'D1- Data Point' Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 30Aug 29, 2014 10:53 pm enkayz Ponzu Yeah id actually raise the massive discrepancy with the builder. Highlight his competition charge 85. Geez im getting a couple extra put in post hand over at 90. 230 is absurd for standard. Yeah, I emailed them asking for the quote from the cabler so I could find out what was meant to be included in the $230 for 'D1- Data Point' Theyre not obliged to show you their cards. But you could get a couple of quotes from builders and data cablers (post handover prices)yourself and show them. Should put a rocket up them and highlight to them that you arent stupid. Creator of superduperonium, expert at expert things, nobel laureate, can hold my breath for 10 minutes. Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 31Aug 29, 2014 11:01 pm Ponzu Theyre not obliged to show you their cards. But you could get a couple of quotes from builders and data cablers (post handover prices)yourself and show them. Should put a rocket up them and highlight to them that you arent stupid. I can only hope I get some information, because they didn't give me enough information on the conduit other than the price. Guess I'm too smart for my own good, what with calculating the cost of what the conduit would be and then getting an expected price. However I am also stupid in the fact that I didn't query what was included in a $230 unterminated data run. And let's be honest, $230 for a data point is a ridiculous price but if someone agrees to pay $230 for 'D1- Data Point' then that's their own loss right? I simply assumed being quoted $230 for a data point after I asked for unterminated conduit runs was $230 for unterminated conduit runs, not $230 for a data point. Whose side is ambiguity on? What I am most surprised about is not once did I email them about anything to do with the data. It was ALL phone conversation and pre-start conversation. And even though by consumer law any express guarantees they make are warranties that must be delivered, getting people to do that is really hard & often the mention of consumer law makes everyone get nasty. But let's be honest. Customer thought he was getting X for Y and ended up getting Z for Y.. aren't you as the supplier meant to determine the correct products to use & advice the customer as the expert? It's such a grey area! Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 32Aug 30, 2014 9:10 am enkayz Should I expect to be given at least some additional space in conduit? The 11 cat5 cables take up over 90% of the space in the P35 pipe. I would never be able to use that conduit for anything else. Shouldn't conduit be installed with some kind of room left? I dare say in this situation it is "tough luck charlie". You have only requested it being in conduit, and have not specified what size conduit you were requiring, let alone anything that states that you require space for future expansion. If you had on your contract that you wanted to run 40mm comms conduit in that central location, and they only supplied 32mm comms conduit, then you could go them for it. They could've squeezed in all that cat5 in say 20mm Tel$tra conduit (which in real life is actually slightly larger than 25mm comms conduit), and you couldn't say anything about it... it is all assumptions if it is not written in the contract. So in short, if they can fit the 11 cat5 cables in any conduit, that's all they have to do. Owner Building at Jimboomba Woods in Logan City Qld. Blog : http://bandlnewhomebuild.blogspot.com H1 thread : viewtopic.php?f=38&t=68283 . Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 33Aug 30, 2014 4:06 pm bpratt I dare say in this situation it is "tough luck charlie". Seems like it! If I had known they'd install a conduit that's effectively useless, I would have preferred they didn't install it at all & instead just dropped the cables down the cavity like has been done on the top floor. Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 34Aug 31, 2014 4:03 am To touch on a few points you have raised. 1. The standards you should expect are all works to be done in accordance with building and cabling standards and products used that are fit for purpose. 2. You should expect all data and communications cables on internal walls to be in conduit, as it's common practice in new homes to do it this way, data points on cavity walls don't have to be in conduit unless specified. 3. Supposedly having TV through the NBN as a reason for not putting TV points in the house is non-sense. You require to have 75 Ohm Coaxial cable terminated to a F Or PAL Point, otherwise how can you expect to plug existing TV's in and scan your channels in when you move in if you only have data points, and no TV Points. 4. You should not normally expect CAT6 as this is a Luxury. Cat5e is specified for 1 Gigabit data rates and this is more than enough for current applications and technology. At 100 Megabit potential, the throughput of most users NBN connection will be a fraction of what CAT5e will push. It appears as you intend to use it for a more unconventional purpose, perhaps you should have just cabled the home with CAT6A to begin with. 5. In Terms of conduit, if you asked for it to be done a specific way, and this was agreed upon then it should be done that way, otherwise it's done the way the builder does it. So long as the conduit diameters house the cables that they are running through it, that's all they require. In our structured cabling installs, we give our customers options to go larger conduits in areas where we see may call for expandability in the future. So you can see, your builder does not profit giving you anything above the basic stuff, unless you specified asked and paid for it. Antenna Direct Perth www.antennadirect.com.au 0423919037 Get your home NBN Ready Smart Wiring and Structured Cabling in Perth Antenna Installations | TV Wall Mounting | Data Cabling HD Security Camera Systems / CCTV Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 35Aug 31, 2014 1:59 pm BJ88 To touch on a few points you have raised. 1. The standards you should expect are all works to be done in accordance with building and cabling standards and products used that are fit for purpose. 2. You should expect all data and communications cables on internal walls to be in conduit, as it's common practice in new homes to do it this way, data points on cavity walls don't have to be in conduit unless specified. So you can see, your builder does not profit giving you anything above the basic stuff, unless you specified asked and paid for it. Thanks for the reply; sounds like I would have gotten the same thing regardless of if I asked for conduit or not! The cable may not be fit for purpose as if it's unidentifiable, it can't be certified by a registered cabler therefore I cannot use the product to complete the system. In regard to the TV, I don't actually use a TV to watch TV. The TV gets used as a monitor for a home entertainment system (xbmc) which provides streaming from Netflix/Hulu/ABC/BBC etc. I think it's becoming more common these days that people use a smart tv to watch on-demand services rather than watching broadcast services via digital. I did expect Cat6 mainly because of the price & the impression & image that the builder gives is that they install quality equipment for a premium price. If I was building with a really cheap new-home builder, they probably wouldn't charge $230 per unterminated data point and you can bet your bottom dollar I'd be specifying Cat6. Re: Conduit & cable standards, what should we expect? 36Aug 31, 2014 6:41 pm Well, some good news. I spent a long time on site today trying to ascertain the situation and I managed to find a cut-off of cable that actually had some identification on it - Cat6 UTP which isn't exactly what I wanted, but it's at least category 6! I've found a few spots where I don't think the work is compliant with ACMA and also data cabling on an internal wall that isn't in conduit - so I'll probably be able to go back to the builder and get them to fix that conduit. At the same time they're fixing that conduit, since they have to take it out and replace it and re-run the cable through, maybe they could install some larger conduit and extend it to the roofspace so the cables aren't bunched together & there's some space left in the conduit to run any extra stuff between the roof & bottom floor easily. Now just to figure out how to present my case! the conduit would need to be undamaged regardless of what network is in play. The conduit needs to be able to have fibre run through it. NBN and Opticomm are just… 4 2883 Building Standards; Getting It Right! Don't think they are designed for double brick. WA has a particular way of building and unfortunately that's the way a large amount of sills are finished. 3 7005 I believe this is correct. From the picture you can see the power was put in last so the electrician knew where the water was. Really it's a common sense issue more… 4 5152 |