Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Nov 17, 2011 8:14 am I'm building a new home in the december (frame stage). And I need to pre-wire the theatre room (for 5.1 surroun) and few other rooms for multiroom in-cielling speakers. I need to have a very high quality audio for the music since i'm using this system for 80% music and 20% movies. I have a big problem with the speaker cables. I get different openions from different hifi shops and installers. as an example my builder's electricians suggest that any brand of speaker cable that have atleast 16 AWG ( 1 - 2 AUD per metre) will do the job really good. some other say that it has to be a very good quality ( like 4 - 10 AUD per metre) one has sent me a linke (http://www.digitalcinema.com.au/Altorol ... -av-14.htm). That company said that this is the only cable brand suggest for a home theatre with equipments worth of 2500 - 10000 AUD range. I dont know what this brand is . but I know that there are some australian made cables on the ebay (found that the brands are Kordz and tycab). When I asked to compare this cable brand with the local ones, again they have mixed ideas. One said that he was used to sell both cables and have stopped selling and stocking tycab since the PRO AV is sounding better than the tycab and has a good value for money. I'm in a big dilemma with this. I dont mind spending a little more than a 1-2 AUD per meter to get a high quality cabling. Since I'm paying for labour anyway, i think it worth the cost in the long run (incase of an upgrade). Can any one please explain this problem and give me some idea. Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 2Nov 17, 2011 9:37 am I wouldnt get caught up in a cable arguement... 10-16 gauge cable will give you a good result and the difference will be minimal if any. The thicker the cable and the shorter the run the better result you will have. Im far more inclined to ask what products you are using? As this is ten times more important. Also how are you acoustically preparing the room in terms of insulation?? Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 3Nov 17, 2011 10:04 am G'day, go to AVS forum there are plenty of threads on this topic. You can buy rolls of 10 - 12 gauge from a number of dealers in the states at a fraction of the price you are speaking of. It also gives tips for long HDMI cables..... Agree with jezza, you need to focus on acoustics as poor acoustics will have a bigger impact potentially than cables. Cheers Mark Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 4Nov 17, 2011 10:14 am Hi Jezza, Thanks for the feedback. Yeah, I have seen some comments posted by other people in this site regarding the speaker cables too. The thing that worries me is , how much do I need to spend on a cable per metre. Is there a real difference between the cable ( I mean in terms of sound performance and durability ) between a 1 AUD and 4 AUD per metre cable ? With regarding the equipment, I'm planning to have a Paradigm Cinema 200 system initially. I would upgrade the Main speakers in around 3 years with separate Paradigm speakers (probably with Monitor Series). And upgrade the rear surrounds with Dipole speakers later. my AVR will be Marantz 7005 or Denon AVR 4311. As I mentioned earlier, if this was mainly for the movies I wouldn't mind. But my main requirement is music listening in the near audiophile quality. And since I'm paying the same money for cabling labour, wouldn't it be a better idea to put a 'better cable' (if such a thing exist ) for the future factor. I too feel that a cable won't have a real effect. But niether found a reasonable idea of what a good quality cable is. For the other rooms where I wouldn't use for critical listening, I dont mind putting a normal 14-16 AWG cable (say Tycab or Kordz). But I'm in a confusion with what I should do with the theatre where I will use for critical listening. Jezza, I have no idea of the accoustic preparations ... , is it something that warrants a big spending ?? thanks. Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 5Nov 17, 2011 10:48 am Hi AussieMark, yeah I have already noticed that there are plenty of vendors in the ebay from US and AUS for bulk speaker cable. All I was afraid to import such a cable was 'Will it void the insurance of my home, if the cable is not properly rated for in-wall/ in cielling use ?'. So that's why I wanted to buy one from the local market where it should have been inspected by local customs. any thoughts ?? Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 6Nov 17, 2011 1:02 pm Hi There is a big difference between $1 per meter cable and $4 per meter cable. $3! Acoustically and electrically though, no. Some cable is nicer to work with. The in-wall cable tends to be easier to pull - other cables have a more rubbery insulation that can 'stick', but on the whole I don't think that there is much in it. From a fire point of view, this cable won't be carrying enough current to over heat and start a fire. The other risk is the toxic gasses given off by the plastics when they burn, but again your house will be so full of plastic in furnishing and other electrical cables that a few meters of speaker wire won't make much difference. I can guarantee you that customs won't inspect the cable (other than to make sure that it doesn't contain drugs, plants or animals) and the fact that it is for sale in the Australian market is no guarantee of compliance in and of itself. Just my 2c, Paul Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 7Nov 17, 2011 1:28 pm Hi Paul, thanks for the feedback. I'm not against your knowledge in anyways, but I have noticed in different internet forums , people claim to have notice a difference in very cheap cables and a moderately priced cables. It's this debate that bothers me alot. So if I put it in the simplest form, can I get an audiophile quality sound with an australian made installation cable (say tycab or kordz) which costs around 1.5 AUD per metre ? PS: thanks and bear with my silly questions since I'm really new to this field and all I know is I can hear the difference between good and better sound . But in technical related matters I'm not very aware of like you ppl Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 8Nov 17, 2011 1:51 pm airwolf Hi Paul, thanks for the feedback. I'm not against your knowledge in anyways, but I have noticed in different internet forums , people claim to have notice a difference in very cheap cables and a moderately priced cables. It's this debate that bothers me alot. So if I put it in the simplest form, can I get an audiophile quality sound with an australian made installation cable (say tycab or kordz) which costs around 1.5 AUD per metre ? PS: thanks and bear with my silly questions since I'm really new to this field and all I know is I can hear the difference between good and better sound . But in technical related matters I'm not very aware of like you ppl Hi You can find lots of forums with people who will swear blind that they can hear the difference between cheap speaker cable and their $500 per meter masterpiece. Personally I can't see it (should that be hear it?). I think this is more about them wanting to hear the difference to (perhaps subconsciously) justify the money they have spent. At the end of the day you have to move electrons from a to b - as long as the wire has sufficient capacity for the current you are passing it will good. When you are dealing with radio frequencies then the design of the cable becomes important. With audio frequencies you are talking about wavelengths of 15Km or longer - the transmission properties of the cable aren't really going to affect the signal. I can certainly hear the difference between active components like amplifiers, speakers and so on. I can see how proper shielding can help with low level interconnects (such as an analogue connection between a turntable and an amplifier - any noise on the cable will be amplified along with the signal), but not with speaker cable. I suspect that over a few meters you could run two strips of fence wire between your speakers and it would sound exactly the same as any high-end speaker cable. This site seems to take quite a good approach to realistically assessing the impacts and effects of speaker cables: http://www.audioholics.com/education/cables/speaker-cable-gauge Paul Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 9Nov 17, 2011 2:01 pm Hi Paul, Thanks for your insight. I understand what your are trying to explain. It seems like marketting gimmiks done by re-sellers. And regardless of the brands most of the speaker cables come from China and other asian countries. So I too think there shouldn't be much difference. I'll go with a 14 AWG cable for the main speakers and 16 AWG for the rears. I hope 16 AWG will be sufficient for multiroom music (in-cielling speakers). By the way, do you have any idea about the maximum length a 'LINE LEVEL' audio interconnect can run without a signal quality loss or a power loss ? Is there any special cable types for these line level connections ? thanks Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 10Nov 17, 2011 2:16 pm Well, being pedantic I guess unless you are using superconductors you will have a power loss at any length I personally have run several meters of line level cable to my subwoofer and never noticed a problem, although the input to the subwoofer will have a high-pass filter that will probably eliminate most of the noise. CCTV cameras often run composite video over 25+M of shielded co-ax, but you wouldn't describe the results as particularly high-definition. It is probably not a good idea to run more than a few meters for these sorts signals. What are you trying to achieve? Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 11Nov 17, 2011 2:23 pm I have a stereo amplifer that powers my bookshelf speakers. But all the audio sources like CD player, Sonos player ...etc are sitting in the Home theatre room which is around 9 - 10m away. I need to 're-use' the same source equipments by connecting this AMP to the AV reciever in the theatre room. So basically it means that I have to run a interconnect from the AVR to the stereo Amp. I was wondering this length would cause the audio quality to be degraded..... What do you think ?? Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 12Nov 17, 2011 2:31 pm airwolf I have a stereo amplifer that powers my bookshelf speakers. But all the audio sources like CD player, Sonos player ...etc are sitting in the Home theatre room which is around 9 - 10m away. I need to 're-use' the same source equipments by connecting this AMP to the AV reciever in the theatre room. So basically it means that I have to run a interconnect from the AVR to the stereo Amp. I was wondering this length would cause the audio quality to be degraded..... What do you think ?? I think you'd be better off relocating the amplifier and extending the speaker cables. 10M is not a big deal for speaker cables, but not so great for line level. You will need to use an IR repeater system if you want to be able to control the amplifier volume from the speaker location (with the bonus being you will also be able to control the source equipment). Paul Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 13Nov 17, 2011 2:35 pm Thanks Paul. I'll consider this option for sure. If you have any articles on how to install an IR repeater please share. for the moment I guess it's enough to run a cat5/6 cable from the IR reciever (listening room) to the desination (home theatre room). And then fit off the wallplates with the IR components. Am I correct here ? By the way I have another practical question. I wish to do this home theatre wiring by myself. I have a fare knowledge with cabling but have no ceritificate. will this be a problem ? ( as long as I do it right ) Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 14Nov 17, 2011 2:44 pm A Cat-5 will be fine for IR - most need either two or three wires at most. It is quite OK for you to run your own AV cabling (as long as you are allowed onsite - this depends on your builder). Only communications cabling and other cabling that connects to a system that connects to the communications network (e.g. Cabling for an alarm panel that connects to a phone line) is covered by the communications cabling regulations. Paul Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 15Nov 17, 2011 2:58 pm Wow nice !!! That means I Can do this my self and better spend the money on a more useful purpose. Thanks a lot for this guideline. I'm having the RED card course very soon and can get the consent of my builder any how. so I think I should be ok for this task. So Paul, I were to do this task ? what are the other equipment I need apart from the speaker cable ? Can you please send me any web links , pictures, etc... But for the Cat6 network, I'm definetely getting it done by a thirdparty subcontractor. Speaker Cables - Please Help 16Nov 17, 2011 10:02 pm Hi Apart from the cable and basic tools probably the only other thing I would recommend is speaker wall plates. If you search on eBay or even google you will find plenty of places to buy these online. You can get the plates with various numbers of speaker connections already fitted but you might like to find out what sort of switches/power points your electrician will be using and get plates to match. You can get the plates from any electrical wholesaler (ask for 'grid only' & the number of holes, so for two speakers you would get a '4 gang grid only') in the style you need (eg Clipsal C2000 or Clipsal SC2000 or ...). You can then get the appropriate inserts or 'mechs' to snap in from eBay or other online store. You might also see if your electrician will help you with the brackets for a case of beer. It isn't too hard to put them on the studs, but some assistance with the first few will help ensure you get a consistent height. It is also a good idea to find out where the power points are going and then put your speaker plates on the other side of the stud to ensure separation from the power wires. Paul Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 17Nov 18, 2011 7:29 am Thanks alot paul. !! I'll keep these things in mind. Have a couple of other questions. 1) I have seen some mounting brackets fitted to the studs, but was wondering how to rough-in for more than one wall plate in the same row. (say around 3 wall plates in a row). 2) Now I know the speaker wires at the amplifier side must be terminated by a wall plate. But how to terminate the other side (speaker side). Do you think I must fit another mounting bracket for that ? , if not how can I recover the wire after the plaster wall goes up Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 18Nov 18, 2011 10:00 am If you fit a wall plate then the plasterer should knock a hole through where the wall plate is. They do this for the sparkies and did it for all the extra wall plates we fitted to save money for extra power points etc.. You can tape the speaker wire to the wall plate then just enlarge the hole for the plate and pull the wiring through and either terminate them or use one of those plates that has a hole in it. Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 19Nov 18, 2011 10:24 am Mate, airwolf Hi AussieMark, yeah I have already noticed that there are plenty of vendors in the ebay from US and AUS for bulk speaker cable. All I was afraid to import such a cable was 'Will it void the insurance of my home, if the cable is not properly rated for in-wall/ in cielling use ?'. So that's why I wanted to buy one from the local market where it should have been inspected by local customs. any thoughts ?? I could be wrong but speaker cable is low voltage and I dont think it falls under the same set of rules as electrical cable. I have not had time to run though all the replies but from what I understand you want the high current power cables to be on a separate circuit so the amps get clean power and the run from components to amp should be as short as practical, speaker cables will be longer and different lengths for the 5.1 set-up. remember to run the L & R the same length and scroll some extra in the roof to allow for when you move speakers or equipment. If you have a theater set-up consider the placement of your amps etc as the little lights may be distracting. For HDMI the ends are prone to breaking so you don't want to be plug/ unplugging alot. May want to consider running conduits with blank strings in to pull wires through if the builder wont let you pre-lay. Thats whats in my mind and on the list of what I will be doing when my build starts shortly. Ciao Mark Re: Speaker Cables - Please Help 20Nov 18, 2011 10:32 am Hi AussiMark, thanks alot for the valuable info. yeah I had some of them in my mind already. I though to consider the 'conduits' in case the builder rejects working on the site as the construction goes on. Thankyou so much 😀 I've decided on White on white for doors and trims, White on white 50% on ceiling and Mt buller for walls. Fingers crossed it will look OK 😀 2 7170 i had the my concreters concrete right up to the fence. I have pits all along my path, so the water tends to drain away from the house and into the pits. There's only one… 7 12793 All 3 items listed are defects and are of concern. Please seek qualified independent inspector and/or legal advice for your state. 1 8231 |