Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Aug 26, 2011 9:38 pm In the next few weeks I'll be ready to wire up my new build for AV but still confused as ever as to what is needed. I've had a read of the forums and there are some smart people out there with some great advice, but I need some dumbed down advice. This is the scenario. I'll be running a media centre which will have audio and video content, separate CD player, blu-ray player, amp, receiver and 2 fox decoders in a central area. I want music in 5 separate rooms with individual controls per room. Sonos seems to be a good solution for this, but if there were any similar cheaper systems then some recomendations would be appreciated and any specific wiring advice for the systems. I will be having 5 TV's and a projector, one of the TV's and projector will be in one room and the others will be in other rooms. I would like each TV to have access to both fox decoders as well as the media centre and blu-ray player and I would like them to have their own remote controls to control these devices. can this be done and how many cat 5 or cat 6 cables need to be run per TV/projector, would I need to run any RG6 cables? Also how will I connect up all the componentry to be controlled from a distant location Hope this makes sense All help will be greatly appreciated Edit: with regards to speaker wires/Cat5/Cat6/RG6 - can anyone give advice on quality needed and an online shop with reasonable prices Also, I have looked at house the projector and remotely drop out of the ceiling but have been quoted about $5k for these, does anyone know of any cheaper ones? Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 2Aug 27, 2011 10:47 pm Go with the sonos. I do t think anything comes close in functionality at the same price and you can buy online / shop around for a good price. my house blog: http://sugarloafdrivebuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 3Aug 29, 2011 10:16 am dsiroky Go with the sonos. I do t think anything comes close in functionality at the same price and you can buy online / shop around for a good price. Disagree. Heard of somthing called the 'apple airport express'? with apple signing agreements left right and centre with all the online music streaming services for their cloud music service, sonos will IMO will be a dead product. This is a warning you will only waste your money. Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 4Aug 29, 2011 10:31 am Airport express does not include an an amplifier or speakers. It's a wifi hotspot with a stereo out jack that support AirPlay. Both sonos and AirPlay can be controlled from an iPhone or iPod touch. While you can get AirPlay embedded in demon amps going that way is much bulkier and is not less expensive. Everyone I know who has sonos is incredibly happy with ease of use, sound quality, ease of installation and services like pandora. Yes, you could buy several airport expresses or even apple tvs if your amplifier and speakers support hdmi, then pair them with amplifiers and speakers, or little sound systems with line in inputs. You could also achieve the same with hai hifi2, nuvo grand concerto or russound, but it is bit more complicated to setup and wire and I don't think it is less expensive once you take into account all the things you need to piece together a complete system with installation. Sonos is dead simple for distributed music....but has limitations as does AirPlay. If you want keypads on the wall to override the volume control, mute or change the source, you can't do that easily with sonos or AirPlay. my house blog: http://sugarloafdrivebuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 5Aug 29, 2011 11:58 am Neither Sonos nor equivalent will come close to giving you what you want - eg. Sonos is a nice system for doing multi-room audio with a centralised PC-based audio source (or even a couple of PC-based audio sources), but not much more than that. It is essentially a system for streaming digital/data-based audio (which it then decodes and plays in each zone) - stray much outside this type of functionality and you very quickly hit the limits of Sonos. You talk about multi-room audio and video with mutliple audio and video sources (more than 2), even some potential HD video, then you only really have one option: a proper, full multi-room AV (audio and video) solution, like the systems by Elan Home Systems: A system like this to begin with: http://www.elanhomesystems.com/productdetail.asp?id=16 then add this for HD video distribution: http://www.elanhomesystems.com/productdetail.asp?id=177 Elan's stuff is very competitively priced for what you get and compared to it's competitors (tends to offer more functionality than similarly priced competitors too) Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 6Aug 29, 2011 4:27 pm Hello, I would suggest running all your systems via semi permanent wall mounted ipads and ipod with a central controller called a n-touch genie, Or to save money your normal smartphone . I am currently installing such systems is two homes and they are fantastic. the screens are fully customizable to suit any decor.. http://www.digitalworld.net.nz/img/p/13 ... ickbox.jpg http://www.securityelectronicsandnetwor ... lected.jpg to be installed into : http://www.geekwithlaptop.com/wp-conten ... -mount.jpg http://bionichome.com/wp-content/plugin ... _idock.jpg This will enable you to visit any room with the phone or wall mounted ipad/iphone and control music, video sources, cctv, lighting etc etc very cost effective, more so than sonos, and its future expandibilty is ENDLESS... laymans terms will take a while to explain how each component interacts with one another... i suggest emailing a few different av or electricians and see what they come up with. basic overview.. to every room install 3 cat 6, 1 x cat 5, 1 or two coax quad sheild.. this will allow for ANYTHING.. not to forget your speaker cabling. all run to a central location.. with adequate ventilation, and its own power subcircuit hope this helped chris Electrical - Automation - Smart wiring - New homes - Commercial - Data cabling] 1300 050 315 www.cenemelectrical.com.au www.facebook.com/cenemelectrical Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 7Aug 29, 2011 4:41 pm Rodda Neither Sonos nor equivalent will come close to giving you what you want - eg. Sonos is a nice system for doing multi-room audio with a centralised PC-based audio source (or even a couple of PC-based audio sources), but not much more than that. It is essentially a system for streaming digital/data-based audio (which it then decodes and plays in each zone) - stray much outside this type of functionality and you very quickly hit the limits of Sonos. You talk about multi-room audio and video with mutliple audio and video sources (more than 2), even some potential HD video, then you only really have one option: a proper, full multi-room AV (audio and video) solution, like the systems by Elan Home Systems: A system like this to begin with: http://www.elanhomesystems.com/productdetail.asp?id=16 then add this for HD video distribution: http://www.elanhomesystems.com/productdetail.asp?id=177 Elan's stuff is very competitively priced for what you get and compared to it's competitors (tends to offer more functionality than similarly priced competitors too) So wheres he going to put his Bluray player into this? http://www.elanhomesystems.com/productdetail.asp?id=16# Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 8Aug 29, 2011 9:41 pm Hi amgsl55 Just my two cents worth, without advocating for any specific system, I'd suggest: - a minimum of 2xCat6 to every display point (i.e. wherever you'll have a TV or projector mounted) - a minimum 1xCat6 to wherever you want to have a control panel in each room (of course, depending on what type of 'system' you use, you may be able to control things using an iPhone, etc and may not require a control panel - in which case don't need to wire for one) - good quality speaker cabling to each room: in-ceiling or in-wall, depending on where you want speakers - if you're planning to use network media players or similar in each room, another 1xCat6 to wherever you plan to put these (alternative is to centralise media players) - 1xCoax to a point beneath each display (e.g. where a powerpoint is - you can always just leave a conduit so the cable can be run at a later date) ALL WIRING TO TERMINATE AT A CENTRAL POINT On the basis of this wiring, which is relatively inexpensive and fairly straightforward, I'd centralise your Foxtel boxes, your blu-ray player, receiver, network media player, etc and connect it all to a HDMI matrix - e.g. 4x4 matrix takes 4 individual inputs and services 4 outputs independently - then use Cat6 to HDMI baluns at each end, with the Cat6 carrying the signal to the various rooms. Limitation is something like 40m for a 1080p signal over Cat6. Then it's a simple matter of switching between sources (from each location) to access Fox or your blu ray player or downloaded material, etc and you can either have all 4 locations watching the same content or any combination you like. Again, depending what type of system you use, everything should be able to be controlled from each point and, with the allowance for a coax cable to each room, you can always use IR extenders if needed. In relation to the audio distribution, personally I'd separate it from the video distribution and use whatever system (Sonos, NuVo, etc) that meets your needs. Like I said, just my two cents. Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 9Aug 30, 2011 3:57 pm Buildingact has it right on. what he recommends is pretty much what i am doing for my new house, along with installing a component video matrix switch to handle video distribution, and hai hifi2 or nuvo to handle audio and ir distribution. As long as you wire to a central wiring closet you cam decide on your equipment later, though things such as wall keypads or docks require forethought to run the wires At this stage hdmi matrix switching is not a path I would go down. It may get better in the future, and if so you can use 2 of the cat5/6 runs with baluns to transmit hdmi. That's why you need at least 3 to each tv point. It's more expensive than sonos, but sonos doesn't do video distribution my house blog: http://sugarloafdrivebuild.blogspot.com/ Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 11Aug 31, 2011 7:13 pm Thanks all for your replies. BuildingACT your suggestions on wiring is what I was after at this stage of the building process, I have time up my sleeve for further research into componentry. Someone should run a home AV wiring 101 course for dumb ones like myself can anyone recommend any online retailers that sell quality cable? Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 12Aug 31, 2011 8:26 pm BuildingACT Hi amgsl55 Just my two cents worth, without advocating for any specific system, I'd suggest: - a minimum of 2xCat6 to every display point (i.e. wherever you'll have a TV or projector mounted) - a minimum 1xCat6 to wherever you want to have a control panel in each room (of course, depending on what type of 'system' you use, you may be able to control things using an iPhone, etc and may not require a control panel - in which case don't need to wire for one) - good quality speaker cabling to each room: in-ceiling or in-wall, depending on where you want speakers - if you're planning to use network media players or similar in each room, another 1xCat6 to wherever you plan to put these (alternative is to centralise media players) - 1xCoax to a point beneath each display (e.g. where a powerpoint is - you can always just leave a conduit so the cable can be run at a later date) ALL WIRING TO TERMINATE AT A CENTRAL POINT On the basis of this wiring, which is relatively inexpensive and fairly straightforward, I'd centralise your Foxtel boxes, your blu-ray player, receiver, network media player, etc and connect it all to a HDMI matrix - e.g. 4x4 matrix takes 4 individual inputs and services 4 outputs independently - then use Cat6 to HDMI baluns at each end, with the Cat6 carrying the signal to the various rooms. Limitation is something like 40m for a 1080p signal over Cat6. Then it's a simple matter of switching between sources (from each location) to access Fox or your blu ray player or downloaded material, etc and you can either have all 4 locations watching the same content or any combination you like. Again, depending what type of system you use, everything should be able to be controlled from each point and, with the allowance for a coax cable to each room, you can always use IR extenders if needed. In relation to the audio distribution, personally I'd separate it from the video distribution and use whatever system (Sonos, NuVo, etc) that meets your needs. Like I said, just my two cents. ""Again, depending what type of system you use, everything should be able to be controlled from each point and, with the allowance for a coax cable to each room, you can always use IR extenders if needed.."" So what IR extender do you plan on using that runs with a COAX cable? Look this is probably close enough but theres a few vague points here. If your planing on using a Matrix Switch then your aim would be to limit the clutter and junk that everyone puts under there TV's (bluray, foxtel ect) and centralise these devices as stated. So im a bit unsure why your specifying a control panel to each location..? IMO your short of at least 1xcat 6 to each tv location. This would be my breakdown 2xcat6 for the HDMI Matrix. Baluns are cheaper and more realible when running in pairs. 1xcat6 for smart TV's. 1xcat6 for IR control over TV. and depending on whether you have a xbox or PS3 run another cat 6. Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 13Aug 31, 2011 8:49 pm I do want to centralize everything - as much as possible. So, I guess if I run 4 cat 6's per TV and 2 RG6's I'll be safe - yes?. PS3 will be upstairs in the kids retreat - and it can stay there. As for audio, the Sonos system has some appeal and as I'll be building a much larger house within the next two years I'll be able to take the sonos with me. Re: Multiroom audio and video wiring 14Aug 31, 2011 10:09 pm Jezza ""Again, depending what type of system you use, everything should be able to be controlled from each point and, with the allowance for a coax cable to each room, you can always use IR extenders if needed.."" So what IR extender do you plan on using that runs with a COAX cable? Look this is probably close enough but theres a few vague points here. If your planing on using a Matrix Switch then your aim would be to limit the clutter and junk that everyone puts under there TV's (bluray, foxtel ect) and centralise these devices as stated. So im a bit unsure why your specifying a control panel to each location..? IMO your short of at least 1xcat 6 to each tv location. This would be my breakdown 2xcat6 for the HDMI Matrix. Baluns are cheaper and more realible when running in pairs. 1xcat6 for smart TV's. 1xcat6 for IR control over TV. and depending on whether you have a xbox or PS3 run another cat 6. Jezza Personally, I'm using Q-Link barrel receivers, run (via coax) back to a central IR block, with emitters leading to each component. There are various other 'IR extenders' which can be run in the same way - so running a coax to each point, for my purposes, was a simple way of covering off that need. As I mentioned, probably just as simple (and perhaps even better) to run a conduit to each point in any case to allow for future cable runs, whatever they may be. And yes, of course it's vague - to the extent that there are a number of different ways you could set things up, dependent on a range of things. The reference to a control panel in each location was only a suggestion in the context of using distributed audio systems (e.g. NuVo) which use physical panels in each 'zone' or for use with other automation systems, e.g. Dynalite - which again make use of control panels. Again, personally, I wouldn't suggest there should be a need for control panels in each room to handle AV distribution - most componentry nowadays, including Foxtel, network media players, WMC etc are controllable over a LAN - or of course, you can use IR repeaters as referred to above. If ur using a PS3, the RF range is generally long enough to allow the use of controllers 'remotely'. Agree that running additional Cat6 to display points is a good idea - I was suggesting the 'minimum' I think you could get away with. And absolutely agree that the aim is to have ZERO clutter beneath your TV/projector - which is exactly what I have. 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