Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Dec 21, 2010 1:56 pm Hi all, we have recently got planning approval for our place (after a long wait with council) and i'm now starting to look at some of the finer details. Being a nerd that designs networks for a living - our house will have network cables running everywhere (and a central patch panel - and what im trying to find is appropriate devices that will run over cat6 cable) What im hoping someone can help me with is my initial list of requirements: 1) Everything possible must run over network cables 2) Wireless option may be accpetable for some devices 3) Media centre devices (This is a given, with new TV's supporting DLNA out of the box and if not, getting a WD or similar media box) 4) Security camera system – network usable – PC server software instead of appliance for recording would be good 5) Home intercom system – network, multiple points, preferably POE 6) Doorbell video system – network, multiple endpoints, preferably POE 7) Speakers - utilising network cable instead of speaker cable - have seen the DIY wirings - but is it possible to purchase coverters ? TV Aerial over network, i believe these converters are commerically available, but havent been able to find them (yet) Anyhoo - if anyone has a location of where to pick these things up - info would be much appreciated. Re: Networking everythign in the house 2Dec 21, 2010 3:55 pm verukins Hi all, we have recently got planning approval for our place (after a long wait with council) and i'm now starting to look at some of the finer details. Being a nerd that designs networks for a living - our house will have network cables running everywhere (and a central patch panel - and what im trying to find is appropriate devices that will run over cat6 cable) Anyhoo - if anyone has a location of where to pick these things up - info would be much appreciated. What im hoping someone can help me with is my initial list of requirements: 1) Everything possible must run over network cables some things just arn't at that stage yet 2) Wireless option may be accpetable for some devices a simple wireless modem/ router will add that feature for iPhones/iPads/ other wifi away from fixed locations 3) Media centre devices (This is a given, with new TV's supporting DLNA out of the box and if not, getting a WD or similar media box) Plenty of devices out there you just need to find ones that do all the or most of the features that you need a HTPC in a Main TV/ Home Theatre 4) Security camera system – network usable – PC server software instead of appliance for recording would be good IP cameras or a DVR system that you can view over the network 5) Home intercom system – network, multiple points, preferably POE IP Phones.. semi decent ones start at $150ish per handset 6) Doorbell video system – network, multiple endpoints, preferably POE there are plenty thatwork fine via a Modeulator... over a RG6 and "normal" TV's 7) Speakers - utilising network cable instead of speaker cable - have seen the DIY wirings - but is it possible to purchase coverters ? Not worth it imeo.. better to run speaker cable to each speaker.. cat6 is great a Audio signals (between devices) 8,) TV Aerial over network, i believe these converters are commerically available, but havent been able to find them (yet) the cost fo RG6 is so low like $0.75/m unless you go for IPTV and fetch boxes no piont not putting in RG6.. the adapotors/ systems that use Cat6 only are way over priced.. then if you have the modulated front door intercomm you can have that come over the RG6 TV's Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Networking everythign in the house 3Dec 24, 2010 4:48 pm Hi there, A great strategy - wish I'd been as far sighted - but the obvious now didn't seem so obvious in '92! A few comments: 1. The use of a patch panel is the key part of your design - this gives you flexibility as your needs change in the house over the years. Just running a few network cables here and there is not the way to do it. 2. Don't think of doing speaker service over network cables. In a typical "serious" audio amp, the speaker cables affect the o/p performance of the amp and the cables typically need to have a low electrical resistance. The large, heavy cables you see around are typically an overkill but having them too thin is is a mistake. At a pinch you could create a short 2 conductor speaker cable from a network cable by joining 4 wires to make each conductor - but is it worth the effort. 3. The IP security camera point is a good idea and one that typically could be difficult it retrofit - for us anyway. But you also need to try to guess what will the good idea of 2020 that you want your wiring to be capable of supporting. 4. Wireless MUST be part of your considerations - full coverage over your whole property not just the house. The plethora of mobile devices that will never be connected by a cable simply dictate a wi-fi service. Also, let's hope that DLNA lives up to its promise - so far, I'm not that impressed... Thanks, OzzyJack Re: Networking everythign in the house 4Jan 30, 2011 10:33 am After having a few weekes of contact with various new suppliers and seeing their gear in their show room the folllwing below has changed IMEO 4) Security camera system – network usable – PC server software instead of appliance for recording would be good POE or Co-ax Cameras (Co-ax are cheaper) and a DVR system that you can view over the network. 5) Home intercom system – network, multiple points, preferably POE IP Phones.. semi decent ones start at $150ish per handset 6) Doorbell video system – network, multiple endpoints, preferably POE Having recently had my Eyes opened Aiphone offer a Door bell and opening system via IP, the devices themselfs are still the normal fornt door camera/ door bell button+ light and the internal Screen / recorder, plus then a Unit that then converts it to IP traffic. Not cheap tho aroud $1800 installed by itself .. be slightly cheaper as part of a bigger install. http://www.audioproducts.com.au/downloa ... atalog.pdf that is the specific Unit 8,) TV Aerial over network, i believe these converters are commerically available, but havent been able to find them (yet) * Revised after seeing some advice on WP the cost fo RG6 is so low like $0.75/m so it is rather cheap to have this in aswell as Using IP TV and or Foxtel. Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Networking everythign in the house 5Jan 31, 2011 9:18 am I like the idea of you trying to convert most things to IP pugs but it seems like you have a bit of a brand war going on there. Why not just look at one central IP brain to like and intergrate everything together? Re: Networking everythign in the house 6Jan 31, 2011 10:14 am Jezza I like the idea of you trying to convert most things to IP pugs but it seems like you have a bit of a brand war going on there. Why not just look at one central IP brain to like and intergrate everything together? umm not my thread... Ok suggest one brand/ product that will do all that to a decent standard.. and share with us all? Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Networking everythign in the house 7Jan 31, 2011 3:43 pm Why not check out Clipsal home automation? http://www.clipsal.com.au/homeowner/pro ... technology Its been years since I looked at it, but you used to be able to control everything from these systems. And they all used Cat5 back then. Lights, TV's, Electric Blinds, Heaters, Aircon, ect etc. Anything that was electronical caould be controlled. Re: Networking everythign in the house 8Feb 01, 2011 9:11 am Pugs Jezza I like the idea of you trying to convert most things to IP pugs but it seems like you have a bit of a brand war going on there. Why not just look at one central IP brain to like and intergrate everything together? umm not my thread... Ok suggest one brand/ product that will do all that to a decent standard.. and share with us all? HAI's omni panel Ness's M1 panel As much as everyone likes to mention c-bus as having the ability to control everything in the home it is predominantly only a lighting control system and then a very expensive one at that. Re: Networking everythign in the house 9Feb 01, 2011 10:41 am Jezza, how established are the other brands, i installed a HPM icontrol system and while it was light years ahead of clipsal the support was rubish and the marketing worst so with poor sales eventually they closed the division. Was heaps cheaper, functions like alarm, HVAC and few other bids and pieces where built in rather than add ons with interfaces and the dimmers/relays could handle bigger loads. Basically i am about 12 months away from buying and renoing my own place again but one of the things i want is automation again, i think the cbus stuff is overrated but don't want to end up with an orphan. Re: Networking everythign in the house 10Feb 02, 2011 10:25 am In terms how established those two compaines are lets look at it from the worldwide leaders of automation the USA. Hai would be the largest distributor of 'automation' products out of the states. ELK/Ness would be a little bit down the food chain but seeing as what they do is very similar it doesnt make much of a difference. Control 4 would be somewhere in the middle. AMX, Crestron i dont really rate to much these days as having to spend 10's of thousands of dollars on back end systems is really quite stupid when you can by things like tablet phones and tablet computers to control the front end at mainstream prices. and then you have all your lighting control solutions such as vantage, lutron , dynalite, UPB , square D/CBUS, and KNX. In terms of in australia and how the market works here its basically: 75% CBUS 25% the rest why? because we are a bunch of idiots who think lighting control and having fancy all off and all on functions is automation. Re: Networking everythign in the house 12Feb 03, 2011 1:26 pm if and when i build I'll be looking at Control 4, but as i pretty much have most things already planned for in my designs.. bar the change of the cabling from Cat6 to Cat6a or Cat7 and above for purely the fact I can do it Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Networking everythign in the house 13Feb 03, 2011 7:17 pm Jezza ...In terms of in australia and how the market works here its basically: 75% CBUS 25% the rest why? because we are a bunch of idiots who think lighting control and having fancy all off and all on functions is automation. Well aren't you just the opinionated type! ... I think I'll leave this forum and go mingle with my fellow 'idiots' Back on topic... To the OP -I agree with Pugs - try and keep things IP based if you are trying to future-proof yourself. But with that said, proprietary systems with decent link-in/central interfaces can also work very well when installed by professionals! For me its more of a hobby... Definately network to as many points in the house as you can, also run cabling to your future CCTV camera positions. You need a suprisingly large amount of cable outlets for media centre applications - particularly if you are going to centralise your devices. For example, my HT (which is where my source equipment is located) needs the following connectivity 1 - Xbox 360 (Dedicated) 1 - WDTV (Dedicated) 1 x TV 1 x TIVO 1 x Bluray 1 - HDMI over Cat-5 extender (Dedicated) 1 - IR Repeater over Cat-5 (Deadicated) 1 - SONOS ZP (Future) (Deadicated) So that is Cat6 outlets of which 4/5 need to be dedicated, the rest I could use a small secondary switch for. P.S. If you find a POE doorbell video intercom system, please let me know as I would be very interested! P1T Read about my building experience: http://secondhomebuild.blogspot.com Dale Alcock Homes - 'The Nautilus' in Bletchley Park, Southern River - WA Read about my Clipsal C-BUS Home Automation Project: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=20854 Re: Networking everythign in the house 14Feb 03, 2011 7:37 pm Dont know if this helps but have a look and see what you think http://www.switchautomation.com/ipintercom.aspx Re: Networking everythign in the house 15Feb 07, 2011 9:07 am Switch Automation is moving to a cloud based home automation service. This will mean in the home will be constantly running the latest software and will be backed up to a secure server. anything with that is IP control can be controlled. This can be controlled by a web browser, ipad, touch screen or just about anything else you can think of. Switch Automation can control other sub systems like Cbus, Dynlite and other lighting systems as well as many Air con systems and Home theater components doing distribution of media.
To answer the question on POE Door stations, Switch does offer a VoIP based intercom system that incorporates a POE door stations as one of the option.
Re: Networking everythign in the house 16Feb 07, 2011 4:21 pm switchauto Switch Automation is moving to a cloud based home automation service. This will mean in the home will be constantly running the latest software and will be backed up to a secure server. anything with that is IP control can be controlled. This can be controlled by a web browser, ipad, touch screen or just about anything else you can think of. Switch Automation can control other sub systems like Cbus, Dynlite and other lighting systems as well as many Air con systems and Home theater components doing distribution of media. To answer the question on POE Door stations, Switch does offer a VoIP based intercom system that incorporates a POE door stations as one of the option. I'd be very suprised if this type of automation really does move to the cloud as the bulk of the cost in home automation is the hardware, rather than the software. A more likely solution is for the web gateways, like the sort that allow you interface your CBUS with ethernet to include a web server for the control of your automation, rather than needing a server box. Much like how your router's config page work. A cloud based solution would imply using software as a service so there'd be very little gain for the customer, besides avoiding rather rare software upgrades. Remote access can be achieved by simply setting up a web app as above and letting in remote access. Re: Networking everythign in the house 17Feb 10, 2011 11:25 pm Not sure where to start here, maybe a link for an IP intercom http://www.security-merchants.com/en/si ... US-Helios/ Without blowing my own whistle i have been in networking and automation for over 15 years, I have used X10, clipsal, lonworks, Dynalite, fyes, noemon and many others including HAI. each product has its pros and cons, even today i still split the use of the term home automation into subsystem control and AV control. in regards to subsystem control you should look at where a system originated from, IE: has it been built from the ground up as a subsystem control or as a lighting system that has merged to something more. any way back on track. cabling. you would be shooting yourself in the foot if you tried to run everything over Cat cable. a couple of reasons one of impedance of cables are different. centralise all your cables as you would with your cat 6 cabling, if your planning to distribute HDMI throughout, then run a min of 3 cat to each location, 4 is best and 2xRJ 6. CAT 2 for hdmi extender 1 for network 1 for phone line RJ6 1 for cable 1 for FATV or Satellite For me this is todays minimum and having it all centralised allows you to implement different devices to convert signals between devices. Automation systems. dont use cat 5 or cat 6, it will work, however it is not rated to the correct international standard for voltage isolation of 3KV use the clipsal pink stuff or a proper industrial automation cable. find the system you want to use and understand how it needs to be wired. Remember you cant wire now for home automation (subsystem control) later. WHY??? because your keypads are most probable low voltage and daisy chained, while all your 240V needs to go back to a central / de-centralised switch board. also think about sensors cables that need to connect back to the automation system EG: occupancy sensor, temp, light, water leak...etc. If they are not bus connected use a 2 pair stranded security cable for this purpose. Make sure your system is easy to program and does not require you to have a uni degree in computer science, and it can perform logic tasks like stepped heating control and nested if then else statements. Mike My system Noemon sub-system control Lighting, Heating cooling, Security, pool heating, blinds, garden irrigation, Awnings, leak,temp and light sensors external. AV. Sonos XBMC on ATV V1 XBMC on XBox Pronto 4400 with serial extender Control 4 hcm 200 for bed room , ip camera via H264 DVR (internet connected, a little clunky) Intercom BPT with telephone interface Gate access Biomtetric Ditec sliding gate motor Re: Networking everythign in the house 18Feb 13, 2011 5:16 pm Anyone know of a good network cable guy in Adelaide who would look at a domestic installation at a reasonable price ? Thanks. . Block settled 07 June 2011 Our little piece of the Interwebs on HomeOne....... viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48577&start=0 Re: Networking everythign in the house 19Feb 13, 2011 9:09 pm Pepsi_Drinker Anyone know of a good network cable guy in Adelaide who would look at a domestic installation at a reasonable price ? Thanks. yes...... me... Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Networking everythign in the house 20Mar 17, 2011 12:42 am Been looking into "Home Automation" a bit, and it seems to me, from my quick glancing at the 'Net, that it's not really there yet ........ As an example, I'm liking a Mitsubishi Heavy Industry (MHI) heavy-duty airconditioner. It has "remote" stuff. As long as you're using a MHI interface to connect it to the "Net. Control4 has a good system for controlling your A/C............As long as it has a "dumb" thermostat, like the York A/C we had installed in 1983. The thermostat sat on the wall and had the thermostat and three settings Heat / Cool / Auto and just sent a Heat/Cool + Run signal to the unit outside. 28 years later the Control4 system can replace that, but not a modern electronic control ?? They can all "Control your watering system", where do I buy a garden sprinkler controller that has an appropriate interface to one of these controllers ? From the C-Bus website... http://www.clipsal.com.au/homeowner/pro ... me_control Quote: security, air conditioning, audiovisual equipment, media players, irrigation systems, motorised blinds and curtains, and a whole lot more, creating a seamless What media player ? What irrigation system ? Which blinds ? Sure..It *CAN* do that, but ........... Quote: * Note: Some functions and features mentioned in this document can only be achieved by integrating third party products with hard wired C-Bus So, until there's a "Home Networking Standard" standard as ubiquitous as USB, where every airconditioner, every curtain , every coffee maker has a HNS plug, it's just not there yet. And while it's been a while since I installed home alarm systems, I always used multi-pair cable for the PIR's. IIRC, there was The Power pair // The NO/NC pair // The Tamper pair. Is this still the case ? I ask because the "Smartwiredhouse" website, under the "Security" section says ........... Quote: The Smart Wired Standard for Security Systems runs a combination of twisted pair copper cable and RG-59 coaxial cable from the security panel (often housed within the Home Distributors) to P. I. R's and video cameras around your home. What feeds the PIR's ? Am I totally out of touch and do PIR's no longer use six wires, and just use two wires for Power // Alarm // Tamper, or two cables for +-12v and RG59 for Alarm // Tamper, or does the person who designed the "Smartwiredhouse" website just wrong ?? I'm learning nothing from these manufacturers web-sites, apart from maybe what their products "could" do, but in practice can't !! P_D . Block settled 07 June 2011 Our little piece of the Interwebs on HomeOne....... viewtopic.php?f=31&t=48577&start=0 You’re on the right track, wire brush in a grinder then a zinc rich epoxy primer then a top coat of some sort, like a waterproofing membrane. Raising the concrete would… 1 7029 How good is Simeon?! Always taking time to help others out! Wish we were building in NSW and could work together. Thanks for all that you do! 7 6561 Really tight at the top of the stairs- how to get furniture into those rooms? Study books - does anyone really use them these days? Large storage closet would be more functional. 2 6883 |