Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 May 05, 2010 4:07 pm Hi guys, I'd like some help working through ideas for my home network. It's a brand new house, so i've got a clean slate and want to take the opportunity to get it right from the start! I'm in IT Support, so you don't have to be too gentle, but i'm a complete novice when it comes to getting it done in a home environment where the money doesn't flow like cheap wine at a singles night! Obviously i want to future-proof to an extent, but at the same time I'm on something of a budget. My intial idea was thus (excuse the fact that i don't have this in diagramatic form) - 12RU Cabinet in Garage w\ Patch Panel - Telstra first point to the wall where the above cabinet will be (So i can patch it to wherever i like) - 2 gang data to every living type area (Bedrooms etc) (In my line of work it's against my constitution to put single data anywhere) - 4 gang data to Home Theatre + Living Area (for TV) + Study Then when discussing with my cabler mate, he tried to talk me out of all the data (due to sheer expense) and into WAPs and just a few wired data point to TV areas running back to the study. Certainly better on the wallet, but not so much for the quality...especially when kids turn up and have PCs in bedrooms etc. My main questions are: - Is it worth shelling out extra for Cat6, or is Cat5e just as good for the time being? (Given the relatively lean traffic) - Do you get raised eyebrows asking for your First Telstra point to be put up near the ceiling of your garage?!! Am i even legally allowed to patch Telstra into a home network in the way i described? - Any major issues having a cabinet in the Garage...dust, heat etc? My other idea was to have it in the Study near the floor and behind the door. I don't like stuff near the floor in carpeted areas though due to dust and fluff. - Have heard bad things about people getting their (licensed) Sparky to terminate Data...coz most of them don't do it regularly enough to be good at it. I was thinking of getting the sparky to throw the cables, but leave the terminating to my mate who'll do the gig for a bed and a carton after handover. - I forget. P So, please discuss if you feel you can. And excuse my potential ignorance...very steep learning curve here! Homestead Homes SA: The Lamont Bayswood Estate; Aldinga Beach Preliminary Signing: April 2010 Floorplans: 13 June 2010 Building Contract: 19 June 2010 Selections: 28 Sept 2010 Scraped; Trenching: 21 Jan 2011 Slab Poured: 28 Jan 2011 Framing: 17 Feb 2011 | Completed 24 Feb 2011 Roof & Gutters: 02 Mar 2011 Bricks: 03 Mar 2011 Wire-up: 12 Mar 2011 Re: Home Network Brainstorming 2May 06, 2010 5:42 pm rockabilly_kid My main questions are: - Is it worth shelling out extra for Cat6, or is Cat5e just as good for the time being? (Given the relatively lean traffic) Cat 6 is worth it for future speeds and tech. your mate either is a lazy cabler for suggesting wifi... it is good for portable devices but for fixed lcation devices then cable ftw... and if he is your "mate" he should be offering "true mates rates" on the install ie cost of parts + beer for labour or small labour charge.... rockabilly_kid - Do you get raised eyebrows asking for your First Telstra point to be put up near the ceiling of your garage?!! Am i even legally allowed to patch Telstra into a home network in the way i described? heck why not have it in the cabinet.... if you are having a NTD (which most new builds are) then it is fine in there... if your mate or your sparky are doing the install they will know what is legal and what isn't and if they don't then they shouldn't be doing any work at all..... rockabilly_kid - Any major issues having a cabinet in the Garage...dust, heat etc? My other idea was to have it in the Study near the floor and behind the door. I don't like stuff near the floor in carpeted areas though due to dust and fluff. Ideal spot for it IMO, if you donpt have to go out there that often to change things sure beats it taking up space in your office or other areas. also don't just use 19" racks there are smaller racks out there, the Amdex 10" comes to mind the 9ru is a very compact rack.. think of a over sized cask of wine. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ rockabilly_kid - Have heard bad things about people getting their (licensed) Sparky to terminate Data...coz most of them don't do it regularly enough to be good at it. I was thinking of getting the sparky to throw the cables, but leave the terminating to my mate who'll do the gig for a bed and a carton after handover. Techincally for your install to be legal he has to do everything or the sparky has to do everything, I'd never sign off on someone else's work. if you have gotten quotes for full cabling then they shouldn't be over $120/ run (1 run of cable, 2 x sockets and a wall plate each end) clearly it gets cheaper per run when you do muliply runs to each room esp if you are getting "true mates rates". Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Home Network Brainstorming 3May 07, 2010 9:00 am Pugs rockabilly_kid My main questions are: - Is it worth shelling out extra for Cat6, or is Cat5e just as good for the time being? (Given the relatively lean traffic) Cat 6 is worth it for future speeds and tech. your mate either is a lazy cabler for suggesting wifi... it is good for portable devices but for fixed lcation devices then cable ftw... and if he is your "mate" he should be offering "true mates rates" on the install ie cost of parts + beer for labour or small labour charge.... Sorry, at this point i didn't make myself 100% clear. I wasn't considering getting this friend of mine to do the install (appart from maybe terminating as mentioned later. I was just asking advice. He was merely questioning my need for 22 odd data points when utilization wouldn't be anywhere near that (at least initially). I agree wholeheartedly that Fixed is infinitely better where you can get it. To clarify, he does get me parts at cost price, and he does charge beer for labour. Or occasionally just a bit of steak! Over such a large job, running Cat6 might be outta my price range given that even if i get the cable at cost i might have to get another cabler in to do the job. Pugs rockabilly_kid - Do you get raised eyebrows asking for your First Telstra point to be put up near the ceiling of your garage?!! Am i even legally allowed to patch Telstra into a home network in the way i described? heck why not have it in the cabinet.... if you are having a NTD (which most new builds are) then it is fine in there... if your mate or your sparky are doing the install they will know what is legal and what isn't and if they don't then they shouldn't be doing any work at all..... My apologies, but i'm not sure what an NTD is. Would you mind explaining it to me? Pugs rockabilly_kid - Any major issues having a cabinet in the Garage...dust, heat etc? My other idea was to have it in the Study near the floor and behind the door. I don't like stuff near the floor in carpeted areas though due to dust and fluff. Ideal spot for it IMO, if you donpt have to go out there that often to change things sure beats it taking up space in your office or other areas. also don't just use 19" racks there are smaller racks out there, the Amdex 10" comes to mind the 9ru is a very compact rack.. think of a over sized cask of wine. Glad to hear it. Definitely don't plan on making regular changes to setup, so out of the way suits me. You're also right that a smaller rack would probably be better...i just want to ensure that with a patch panel and switch i'm still going to have room for a modem + airflow plus any potential future network hardware what's not too big. Pugs rockabilly_kid - Have heard bad things about people getting their (licensed) Sparky to terminate Data...coz most of them don't do it regularly enough to be good at it. I was thinking of getting the sparky to throw the cables, but leave the terminating to my mate who'll do the gig for a bed and a carton after handover. Techincally for your install to be legal he has to do everything or the sparky has to do everything, I'd never sign off on someone else's work. if you have gotten quotes for full cabling then they shouldn't be over $120/ run (1 run of cable, 2 x sockets and a wall plate each end) clearly it gets cheaper per run when you do muliply runs to each room esp if you are getting "true mates rates". Ahh okay, when you say it like that it makes sense that the whole job needs to be completed by the one guy. Haven't got any quotes yet, but I'd be keen to. I guess i have to wait til i have the drawings back to get the most accurate quote. Any suggestions of who i should approach? Do you do this kinda work? Thankyou kindly for all your help, it's greatly appreciated. You've been most informative. Glenn Homestead Homes SA: The Lamont Bayswood Estate; Aldinga Beach Preliminary Signing: April 2010 Floorplans: 13 June 2010 Building Contract: 19 June 2010 Selections: 28 Sept 2010 Scraped; Trenching: 21 Jan 2011 Slab Poured: 28 Jan 2011 Framing: 17 Feb 2011 | Completed 24 Feb 2011 Roof & Gutters: 02 Mar 2011 Bricks: 03 Mar 2011 Wire-up: 12 Mar 2011 Re: Home Network Brainstorming 4May 07, 2010 9:34 am rockabilly_kid Sorry, at this point i didn't make myself 100% clear. I wasn't considering getting this friend of mine to do the install (appart from maybe terminating as mentioned later. I was just asking advice. He was merely questioning my need for 22 odd data points when utilization wouldn't be anywhere near that (at least initially). I agree wholeheartedly that Fixed is infinitely better where you can get it. To clarify, he does get me parts at cost price, and he does charge beer for labour. Or occasionally just a bit of steak! Over such a large job, running Cat6 might be outta my price range given that even if i get the cable at cost i might have to get another cabler in to do the job. Depending on the length of runs and such should be under $2200 (purely a guestermation) for the entire job.. not including having the TV points to the cabinet aswell which should be done for an easy trasition to FTTH later on rockabilly_kid My apologies, but i'm not sure what an NTD is. Would you mind explaining it to me? NTD = Network Termination Device it is the Telstra demarcation piont where their PSTN (Plain Simple Telephoine Network) ends and the "customers" cabling begins rockabilly_kid Glad to hear it. Definitely don't plan on making regular changes to setup, so out of the way suits me. You're also right that a smaller rack would probably be better...i just want to ensure that with a patch panel and switch i'm still going to have room for a modem + airflow plus any potential future network hardware what's not too big. Generally people don't add things to a home network other then devices.. as most of the time once you are built it is hard to add things later on, yes they are very good i know for a fact that the Metal TP link 8 port switches fit in these so 2 x 12 way patch panels and 3 tplink and a modem/router (all in one), is only 6 "rack units" taken up with room for a TV hub aswell.. rockabilly_kid Ahh okay, when you say it like that it makes sense that the whole job needs to be completed by the one guy. Haven't got any quotes yet, but I'd be keen to. I guess i have to wait til i have the drawings back to get the most accurate quote. Any suggestions of who i should approach? Do you do this kinda work? Thankyou kindly for all your help, it's greatly appreciated. You've been most informative. Glenn Yes i do this work Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Home Network Brainstorming 5May 07, 2010 12:13 pm As for the cost of Cat6, it's virtually the same price as Cat5e (pending where you buy it of course). RRP for 300m of cat6 you can get for $179, cheaper if they can get it wholesale ---------------------------------------- Building the PD Lisbon 24 http://www.porterdavis.com.au/#homeviewer/lisbon/24 Blog of our progress. http://lisbon24.blogspot.com/ Homeone build thread https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=28665 Re: Home Network Brainstorming 6May 07, 2010 12:38 pm TimmyDunlop As for the cost of Cat6, it's virtually the same price as Cat5e (pending where you buy it of course). RRP for 300m of cat6 you can get for $179, cheaper if they can get it wholesale which is fine for single runs but the minute you start running more the 1 run it becomes a PITA to be doubling/ trippling/ quadurpling back be why i always carry at least 2 pull packs... Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Home Network Brainstorming 7May 07, 2010 12:41 pm Pugs Depending on the length of runs and such should be under $2200 (purely a guestermation) for the entire job.. not including having the TV points to the cabinet aswell which should be done for an easy trasition to FTTH later on That's alot better than i was expecting to be perfectly honest. What's your take on the TV points? Obviously i need signal in, so are you suggesting having the roof aerial come into the cabinet, and then it being split out to the TV room from there? Sorry if i'm off track. Pugs NTD = Network Termination Device it is the Telstra demarcation piont where their PSTN (Plain Simple Telephoine Network) ends and the "customers" cabling begins Righto, makes sense. Is this a box on the wall or does it have the same appearance as a wall plate? Pugs Generally people don't add things to a home network other then devices.. as most of the time once you are built it is hard to add things later on, yes they are very good i know for a fact that the Metal TP link 8 port switches fit in these so 2 x 12 way patch panels and 3 tplink and a modem/router (all in one), is only 6 "rack units" taken up with room for a TV hub aswell.. Wouldn't add anything to the physical once it's done. Hence why i'm planning to have so much data from the outset. Pugs Yes i do this work Good to hear, i'm appreciative of all your advice and help thus far. Homestead Homes SA: The Lamont Bayswood Estate; Aldinga Beach Preliminary Signing: April 2010 Floorplans: 13 June 2010 Building Contract: 19 June 2010 Selections: 28 Sept 2010 Scraped; Trenching: 21 Jan 2011 Slab Poured: 28 Jan 2011 Framing: 17 Feb 2011 | Completed 24 Feb 2011 Roof & Gutters: 02 Mar 2011 Bricks: 03 Mar 2011 Wire-up: 12 Mar 2011 Re: Home Network Brainstorming 8May 07, 2010 12:56 pm rockabilly_kid That's alot better than i was expecting to be perfectly honest. most people think that it would be an expensive out lay (which it is) but you are investing in infrastucture to make the house livable to your standards. And to be honest if people think it is excessive.. well that is their problem not yours... did a job at a house that had 2 phone points in each bedroom and 4 in the office ..now that is excessive krone points at that so yeah over the top just abit.. rockabilly_kid What's your take on the TV points? Obviously i need signal in, so are you suggesting having the roof aerial come into the cabinet, and then it being split out to the TV room from there? Sorry if i'm off track. Signal in and the distro to any spot where you think you "might" ever need it factoring in FTTH in 10-12 years rockabilly_kid Righto, makes sense. Is this a box on the wall or does it have the same appearance as a wall plate? Simple grey colur box that goes next to the Mains box then i would runa line from there to where the other cabling ends up rockabilly_kid Wouldn't add anything to the physical once it's done. Hence why i'm planning to have so much data from the outset. meh 35 points plus is startting to get up there ina "geek" / IT guys house ..Howie from these forums has 27 data points all up plus 11 TV points in his house. This a photo of my handy work last week at Howies House... http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_VYmWHg1Q0lw/S ... G_5550.JPG rockabilly_kid Good to hear, i'm appreciative of all your advice and help thus far. well pm me when you have the final plans and i can do a quote for you.. generally as I've said countless times here Bedroom: 2 x data + 1 x TV Office : Minumum 2 x 2 data and 1x TV HT: 4 x Data + 2 x TV Minor TV areas: 2 data + 2 x TV and as a general rule for other areas: 2 x data Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Home Network Brainstorming 9May 09, 2010 12:29 am Puggs Quote: Signal in and the distro to any spot where you think you "might" ever need it factoring in FTTH in 10-12 years What do you see as the possible path of TV services that FTTH will intoduce? I would have thought by the time it arrives the DNLA input of current TV's would handle streaming direct or a simple external box between the fibre modem and the tv's ethernet input over UTP cables, no need for coax. But I could be missing something. Slab poured 21/04/2011 Frame finished 27/05/2011 Moved in 07/11/2011 Re: Home Network Brainstorming 10May 09, 2010 12:43 am FTTH brings in FTA and foxtel over the co-ax so with the addtional services via ethernet and such ... there could be lots of ways to get stuff on your screen worth having every way of getting it there... Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Home Network Brainstorming 11May 09, 2010 8:46 am rockabilly_kid What's your take on the TV points? Obviously i need signal in, so are you suggesting having the roof aerial come into the cabinet, and then it being split out to the TV room from there? Sorry if i'm off track. Pugs Signal in and the distro to any spot where you think you "might" ever need it factoring in FTTH in 10-12 years Hi all, great thread and especially as the builders sparky is not accessible to me as yet. If I can hijack thread slighlty, I have 10 x TV points coming into the Comms Rack; what sort of MUX do you connect into and which do you recomend ? * Are we there yet ? Demolition has come and gone ! yippeeee..hang on that was months ago !! come on Mr Builder, dig a hole at least Finaly ! Hole Dug ! well done darren 20/06/2010. Slab is down ! Framing is complete 20/10/2010 we are progressing like a snail on heat - excited and determined but very very slow Steveo Re: Home Network Brainstorming 12May 09, 2010 8:55 am soemthign from clipsal or Hills depends on how many inputs you have... if just a FTA antenna then a simple splitter will work or a couple of them, or if you have foxtel/ FTTH then a clipsal 8072/6VHP or 8073/8VHPIR are more suited to the Job.. Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Home Network Brainstorming 13May 09, 2010 9:19 am Thanks Pugs, it is for Foxtel - just reading old threads on the complexity of distributing Foxtel HD and the added complexity of multiroom control versus buying Foxtels own Multiroom answer. Trying to do a Cost of Ownership/ease of use, beteween buying an AV/Multiroom distribution system (such as Elan mentioned in another thread) or using the Telstra Foxtel Multi room with a standalone Audio device with access to the Comms Rack for Internet/shared media etc using the PS3 - problem here is that you go back to 2 or 3 x devices to the room. * Are we there yet ? Demolition has come and gone ! yippeeee..hang on that was months ago !! come on Mr Builder, dig a hole at least Finaly ! Hole Dug ! well done darren 20/06/2010. Slab is down ! Framing is complete 20/10/2010 we are progressing like a snail on heat - excited and determined but very very slow Steveo Re: Home Network Brainstorming 14May 10, 2010 9:56 am We're not at all interested in Foxtel or it's derivatives, and i'm kinda glad. It seems like distribution is a pain in the butt! Homestead Homes SA: The Lamont Bayswood Estate; Aldinga Beach Preliminary Signing: April 2010 Floorplans: 13 June 2010 Building Contract: 19 June 2010 Selections: 28 Sept 2010 Scraped; Trenching: 21 Jan 2011 Slab Poured: 28 Jan 2011 Framing: 17 Feb 2011 | Completed 24 Feb 2011 Roof & Gutters: 02 Mar 2011 Bricks: 03 Mar 2011 Wire-up: 12 Mar 2011 Re: Home Network Brainstorming 15May 17, 2010 2:39 pm Hi all Apologies if I'm hijacking (saves making a whole new thread). Just wondering if anyone is able to suggest a good cabler in Melbourne for this sort of thing? Just bought a new house (which will be demolished) and we'll be starting on plans very soon. Certainly want to get it all cabled to high heaven while it's going up Thanks! Re: Home Network Brainstorming 16May 19, 2010 10:10 am I was wondering of Pugs, you had any solutions for wired external data. Our design has an alfresco, however it is under the main roof and I was thinking of perhaps having an external TV up near the ceiling in the most sheltered corner. (The alfresco really is sheltered, you can view the design here: http://www.homesteadsa.com.au/lgeplans/lamont.html ) Given the the walls for the alfresco are still exposed brick, but the ceiling is properly finished, i was thinking of having power and data points located in the ceiling in one of those internal corners for the TV to be plugged into. What are your thoughts? Homestead Homes SA: The Lamont Bayswood Estate; Aldinga Beach Preliminary Signing: April 2010 Floorplans: 13 June 2010 Building Contract: 19 June 2010 Selections: 28 Sept 2010 Scraped; Trenching: 21 Jan 2011 Slab Poured: 28 Jan 2011 Framing: 17 Feb 2011 | Completed 24 Feb 2011 Roof & Gutters: 02 Mar 2011 Bricks: 03 Mar 2011 Wire-up: 12 Mar 2011 Re: Home Network Brainstorming 17May 19, 2010 10:23 am rockabilly_kid I was wondering of Pugs, you had any solutions for wired external data. Our design has an alfresco, however it is under the main roof and I was thinking of perhaps having an external TV up near the ceiling in the most sheltered corner. (The alfresco really is sheltered, you can view the design here: http://www.homesteadsa.com.au/lgeplans/lamont.html ) Given the the walls for the alfresco are still exposed brick, but the ceiling is properly finished, i was thinking of having power and data points located in the ceiling in one of those internal corners for the TV to be plugged into. What are your thoughts? yeah there are IP rated enclosures.. it isn't hard at all... have your plans been finalized yet ?? Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Home Network Brainstorming 18May 19, 2010 10:35 am Wow, you're quick! Plans had their first drafting a week or so ago, not far away now. Homestead Homes SA: The Lamont Bayswood Estate; Aldinga Beach Preliminary Signing: April 2010 Floorplans: 13 June 2010 Building Contract: 19 June 2010 Selections: 28 Sept 2010 Scraped; Trenching: 21 Jan 2011 Slab Poured: 28 Jan 2011 Framing: 17 Feb 2011 | Completed 24 Feb 2011 Roof & Gutters: 02 Mar 2011 Bricks: 03 Mar 2011 Wire-up: 12 Mar 2011 Re: Home Network Brainstorming 19May 19, 2010 10:36 am rockabilly_kid Wow, you're quick! Plans had their first drafting a week or so ago, not far away now. when work is quiet I'm on forums..... Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Home Network Brainstorming 20May 19, 2010 11:03 am As am i, as am i! Homestead Homes SA: The Lamont Bayswood Estate; Aldinga Beach Preliminary Signing: April 2010 Floorplans: 13 June 2010 Building Contract: 19 June 2010 Selections: 28 Sept 2010 Scraped; Trenching: 21 Jan 2011 Slab Poured: 28 Jan 2011 Framing: 17 Feb 2011 | Completed 24 Feb 2011 Roof & Gutters: 02 Mar 2011 Bricks: 03 Mar 2011 Wire-up: 12 Mar 2011 We already paid for somfy motors for the blinds. The quote above was purely for “pre-wiring” so the blinds company can install the motors and blinds. That’s why we… 5 16289 go upvc window frames ensure insulation under colorbond. not just sarking, lighter color roof also not sure if you have seen this viewtopic.php?t=5823 last couple of pages… 4 110588 7 12026 |