Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Jan 07, 2010 9:46 am A question regarding sensors for interior lights. I was speaking to our [potential] sparky today and he seemed to think what I wanted either didn't exist or would operate in a strange way. What I want: sensor controlled lighting in areas like passageways, stairwells, loo, so that they come on at pre-determined dimmed levels depending on the time of day when you blunder through them half-asleep in the middle of the night (and switches off after a preset time of inactivity). I also want them to be controlled by a regular on/off switch so that you can flick the light on and it ignores the sensor completely and doesn't switch off until you flick the switch back off. A scenario that I can think of is this: I'm doing some housework and want the extra illumination from the passageway lights even if I'm not physically in the passage, so I want to be able to switch them on regardless of what the sensor is saying. To my mind this would be a logical way of operating: light switches via sensor unless overridden by manual switch. Yet the electrician was implying that this wouldn't work or at least be complex requiring three-way switches and non-trivial operation. So am I correct in assuming that it is simple to set up or is the electrician correct and I'm being fanciful? Re: Interior sensor lighting 2Jan 07, 2010 10:09 am So if I read this correctly, what your really after is a sensor that is capable of switching the light on and off, with the ability to adjust the level of light via a dimmer to preset levels based on time, in addition you want a switch to bypass the sensor and turn on lights independant of the dimmer? First off i'm not a sparky, if you remove the need for the automatic adjustment of the dimmer it becomes a relatively simple system. Lights-Switch-Dimmer-Sensor with timer-Mains supply ...........|- Off ...........|- Mains supply So effectively you have a tri-way switch that determines whether the lights are connected at full mains voltage, off, or to the sensor/dimmer circuit. Hence you would manually set the dimmer. Equally you could simplify it to a two way switch and completely remove the off option, so its either on or attached to the sensor circuit. If your stuck on having pre-set dimmer levels based on time your probably looking more towards a home automation (lighting) setup. Something like Clipsal Cbus or equivalent <insert brand name automation system here> should be capable of doing that you'd just need to look at the specs of the systems individualy to find out which provides the functionality your after. Then it would be Lights ---- Controller ----- Sensor .....................|-----Switch With the program in the controller setting the light level based on time. So you would need to choose one that has the ability to dimm lights, as well as the ability to setup light programs based on a time schedule hence so you can set the different levels. it would also need to have a compatible motion sensor available for the system which then acts within the program to trigger your light schedule as well as a compatible switch programmed to override the light program and turn on the lights at full brilliance. The second options is going to be considerably more expensive due to the additional complexity and the brand tax that seems to be on all "home" automation systems. Really comes down to how much you want it vs how deep are your pockets. What your after or something close to it is definately possible, but if you go the home automation route you probably want to look at a specialist installer with experience in whichever system they sell. As most systems have their own idiosyncracies. Marketing on clipsal c-bus, it gives an outline of what its capable of controlling.http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/Files/Brochures/C0000202.pdf The tech and implementation pdf contains far more useful info about the components, pg 5 gives an easy breakdown of the components. http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOnline/Files/Brochures/C0000210.pdf Oh and as a disclaimer, i don't personally use CBUS nor am i affiliated in any way with Clipsal, its just their system came to mind as an option the OP may want to look at and their documentation is easy to access online . Our Build - Places Fairhaven 23+ - https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=28045 Our Landscaping - Belial's Backyard - https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=45375 Re: Interior sensor lighting 3Jan 07, 2010 12:06 pm Belial So if I read this correctly, what your really after is a sensor that is capable of switching the light on and off, with the ability to adjust the level of light via a dimmer to preset levels based on time, in addition you want a switch to bypass the sensor and turn on lights independant of the dimmer? That basically sums it up. Yes, there is some automation also involved regarding the time-based dimming and other bits and pieces that I want to do, but I'm trying to get the 'mechanical' aspects of the devices sorted out without resorting to cbus and similar systems. Re: Interior sensor lighting 4Jan 07, 2010 12:56 pm PIR's and sunset switches are what you want.... your sparky might not know about them hence his reluctence to help you much.. there is info about this inthe safety and the creative lighting sections Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Interior sensor lighting 5Jan 07, 2010 12:58 pm Thudd That basically sums it up. Yes, there is some automation also involved regarding the time-based dimming and other bits and pieces that I want to do, but I'm trying to get the 'mechanical' aspects of the devices sorted out without resorting to cbus and similar systems. i think the problem your going to face is that there isn't an off the shelf solution for this without resorting to a form of lighting control via automation or a complex circuit of off the shelf components. The first 'diagram' (and i use that word loosely ) in my above post is based on of the shelf Clipsal/HPM components. One two way or three way switch, a motion sensor with 240v relay, wallplate dimmer. That is without having your timed presets, it would be a case of you having to adjust the dimmer by hand. Relatively simple and a sparky should easily be able to design and wire it up. Edit: Pugs is right you could use a 'sunset sensor' which is effectively just a light sensor you mount externally to tell whether its day or night and switches a relay in response. That combined with a dimmer you set by hand for the night circuit would give you two presets. Full on via the motion sensor/PIR or dimmed and turned on by the motion sensor/PIR. Still a messy bit of cabling, also considering if you had seperate circuits for each of the areas you mentioned in the OP, thats quite a lot of sensors, relays and cabling. Depending on your Sparky and their experience, they may not be interested or make it so expensive that automation becomes more viable for you. Our Build - Places Fairhaven 23+ - https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=28045 Our Landscaping - Belial's Backyard - https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=45375 Re: Interior sensor lighting 6Jan 07, 2010 1:54 pm Belial Thudd Edit: Pugs is right you could use a 'sunset sensor' which is effectively just a light sensor you mount externally to tell whether its day or night and switches a relay in response. That combined with a dimmer you set by hand for the night circuit would give you two presets. Full on via the motion sensor/PIR or dimmed and turned on by the motion sensor/PIR. Still a messy bit of cabling, also considering if you had seperate circuits for each of the areas you mentioned in the OP, thats quite a lot of sensors, relays and cabling. Depending on your Sparky and their experience, they may not be interested or make it so expensive that automation becomes more viable for you. Bold is the most important part.... anyways ... i have no idea why sparky wouldn't wan tto do this if they knwo what they are doing ansd surely they see the money side aswell I personally would go the sunset/ PIR and dimmer option for hallways at night Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Interior sensor lighting 7Jan 07, 2010 2:12 pm Pugs Belial Thudd Edit: Pugs is right you could use a 'sunset sensor' which is effectively just a light sensor you mount externally to tell whether its day or night and switches a relay in response. That combined with a dimmer you set by hand for the night circuit would give you two presets. Full on via the motion sensor/PIR or dimmed and turned on by the motion sensor/PIR. Still a messy bit of cabling, also considering if you had seperate circuits for each of the areas you mentioned in the OP, thats quite a lot of sensors, relays and cabling. Depending on your Sparky and their experience, they may not be interested or make it so expensive that automation becomes more viable for you. Bold is the most important part.... anyways ... i have no idea why sparky wouldn't wan tto do this if they knwo what they are doing ansd surely they see the money side aswell I personally would go the sunset/ PIR and dimmer option for hallways at night Depends on their experience and workload, if they don't have the experience to know what the components are and the next few jobs they have booked are simple the laziest option is just to move on, or simplify your requirements to the point where its no longer complex in any way shape or form. Hmm maybe i should adjust that, Perhaps you may not be interested in having your current sparky do it if they don't have the experience. Sure the majority of the work is running cable and connecting the components which isn't exactly experimental rocketry, but also from the consumer point of view any time the tradie spends learning on the job is time they're charging you for. Food for thought anyway, though you may want to look at the costs upfront, for the additional functionality and expandibility an automation system would still be worth consdiering imo. Our Build - Places Fairhaven 23+ - https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=28045 Our Landscaping - Belial's Backyard - https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=45375 Re: Interior sensor lighting 8Jan 19, 2010 12:22 pm you could achieve a fair bit of it with careful wiring but it sounds like a pain and imagine trying to explain it to someone staying at your place. i went with automated lighting at the last place and loved it, i was about to install sensors in hall and bathroom. Basically after 10:00pm before 6:00am if you turn on the hallway light it would only go 50% and turn off after 2 minutes, this event was also triggered by turning off the bathroom light. The bathroom light was the same, except if you turned it on during main hours it would also turn on the bathroom audio so you had music while you showered. There where other little options i hadn't really started to play with it before i had to sell for personal reasons, will def muck around with it next house i get. Re: Interior sensor lighting 9Jan 19, 2010 12:32 pm I have another alternative perhaps cheaper. I have a bosch alarm system with the sensor light attached to the sensor (its a feature of the alarm). The way that it work is that once it is dark and you walk in fron of it it lights up. Not too bright otherwise you may get startled at night. The reason i went this way as it was cheaper than installing emergceny lighting for when power goes out., as the alarm has battery back up, so when i use it to walk around at night or coming into the house through the garage door i straight way have light in the house to see where i am going. Anyway in term of being able to light up when you want you just use the standard lights. Re: Interior sensor lighting 10Jan 20, 2010 7:12 pm Hi, My house does exactly as you would like your's to do! Depending on ambient light the toilet light gradually ramps up to a variable level, the hall lights only go to a set lux level. I installed C-Bus and have been playing with the programming to my hearts content (annoying my wife!). the options for you're lighting are only limited by you're imagination and installers capabilities. The added bonus for infrascan detectors inside, is they interface perfectly to a learning remote control (ie -Harmony) and you can lay on the couch and control you're lights (more annoying for wife Lol). Ps.. it took me 6 months to figure out exactly what I wanted the C-bus to do for our situation, I'm glad I wasn't paying someone for every change. Re: Interior sensor lighting 11Apr 29, 2010 5:17 pm Id recommend a small c-bus installation in this situation.. rather than going into relays etc.. fault finding would be a nightmare in future. and more importantly Ease of use would suffer. a very small c-bus system would only require a small dimmer pack, c-bus power supply, access point and a couple of switches. This could easily be retro fitted to your house... This way you could program the c-bus to operate at certain light levels at certain time during the day, operate the lights individually, or even by a remote!! trust me anything you can think up, it can be done. I know an installer that did a full 'green' installation where if the house was using to much electricity it would cut all the light levels down to minimize energy usage. As well as messaging the house owner that his bill would be high during this billing period! Electrical - Automation - Smart wiring - New homes - Commercial - Data cabling] 1300 050 315 www.cenemelectrical.com.au www.facebook.com/cenemelectrical I'm curious, did they provide any reason why they did not like the idea? 1 14413 I am looking for someone who might have tackled a similar issue as me. I have a few rendered interior walls, the surface condition is hardly flat. I can see all the bumps… 0 7967 Hi All, I am looking to go with tiles instead of laminate timber flooring throughout my living areas for my new build (Ashbury 29 - Henley). My whole colour scheme is on… 0 24351 |