Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Dec 27, 2009 9:41 am Hello to all. I am new to the forums and I am so glad I have found this very informative website! I am due to start building in early February a home in suburban Adelaide. Looks like I'll be fixed to this site for a very long time. So anyway a little background. I in the past used to install telecommunication networks and voip systems. I have done a fair bit of data cabling in the past also, but mainly on commercial sites and very rarely in a domestic environment. I would like to cable up my house and also king of future proof it. Got plenty of cat 5 ****** around the house and a 150m or so cat 6. Not sure how much RG6 I have, but none of that matters anyway as I know where to source the materials. I have attached my house plans, and I have overlaid my proposed data network for the house. Essentially I am just thinking about putting 2 cat 6 outlet and 1 RG 6 coax outlet (obviously on the same wall plate) in the locations as you see on the plan all going back upstairs to a hub. This hub will also have a couple of cat 6 cables direct to the MDF? and coax to the roof. I also plan to have draw strings in the walls for the future should I need to allow for something else. The ground floor is going to be the challenge as once the house is complete access to ground floor area will be limited, except maybe close to the exterior wall at the front of the home. As I said I have little experience on the domestic side of things and would love to hear other people's opinions on my proposed plans! Thanks in advance! Ground Floor http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/8005/groundfloordata.jpg Upstairs http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6503/upperfloordata.jpg Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 2Dec 27, 2009 11:31 am All depends on what you see is in 'your' future. And if you want the house to get to a Home Server situation. I would plumb more cable to the living room TV as so many devices are network connectable and/or streaming media these days. If there are more than one person using the study you will want more network ports for PC's and shared printers. Another thing I am looking at doing is plumbing for front and rear IP camera's streaming to my Home Server box for security. IMO wired is so much more robust than wireless so instal plenty while you have the opportunity. Slab poured 21/04/2011 Frame finished 27/05/2011 Moved in 07/11/2011 Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 3Dec 27, 2009 12:39 pm Cat6 will be good for at least 10 years in a domestic install wouldn't bother with Cat5 unless it is actaully Cat5e.. and even then I wouldn't bother using it at all. as long as you still hold your open or rescricted licence you can still install all of this, unless you builder requires your third party tradesmen to have PLI which most of them require you to do these days to go onto "thier" construction site then their will only let you on during supervised times. MDF as a patch panel ... MDF's arn't used for domestic installs your orginal lay out is good .. personally i would just put them all in at the one time .. except for the up stairs ones you won't need that many in the bedrooms.... maybe go for 3 x Cat6 and 1 x RG6 Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 4Dec 27, 2009 3:44 pm Hi again and wow great input. Thanks! You guys are right, it is construction so why not do it now while I can. I am registered with BICSI and my open cabling rego expires 2012. I had it renewed for 3 years this year although I wasn't working in the industry. I am a little rusty with the industry as I've been out for about 2-3 years but I'm sure I will be ok. I haven't got the domestic knowledge though and this is where I need some good advice. @ 71monaro That's a good idea, I don't know why I wouldn't have thought about the extra's for the entertainment and study areas. I will run 4 Ethernet + 2 Coax to the living area (6 gang wall plate) and 3 ethernet + 1 coax to the study area (quad plate) I like the idea of the IP Camera's, sounds expensive though Would they be Coax or ethernet, or both? Do they need individual power supplies? Haven't seen any of these for domestic. @ Pugs I've got 5e not 5. How much better of would cat 6 be over 5e in a house? I will have no problem accessing the site during construction. A family member of mine is the builder! MDF. I didn't mean MDF as the timber for the patch panel, I meant the 'main distribution frame' (well in a commercial sense). Can I have the customer boundary in a box on the side of the house or does it have to be the first telephone point as it is typically? If I can make the customer boundary on the outside wall next to the Electricity Box that would be ideal. Then I guess I would run 2 ethernet cables from there to the 'server'. How can I go about getting this allowed from Telstra? Is there a specific termination device I have to have for the customer boundary? ______________________________ Additional questions. Do you think I will need provision for more than 1 coax to the roof? What sort of hubs/servers are out there for homes and can you get a combined panel for coax and ethernet? I have only seen the typical 24 or 48 port P/Panels used in most commercial jobs. ie Krone, Clipsal, Molex etc The provision for data/coax at the fridge + garage - overkill? Home speaker system, I have installed PA Systems around the place for police/fire stations etc. I would like to setup around my TV, 2 wall speakers (flush with the wall) + Sub and 2 ceiling speakers. In addition I would like to have ceiling speakers (to perhaps play something else in the garage and perhaps outdoors at the back) This would effectively be a multi zone system wouldn't it and the best spot for this Audio equipment would be in a cabinet under the TV would it not? Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 5Dec 28, 2009 8:21 pm Jimako @ Pugs I've got 5e not 5. How much better of would cat 6 be over 5e in a house? ? Cat6 allows for POE upgrades later on Jimako MDF. I didn't mean MDF as the timber for the patch panel, I meant the 'main distribution frame' (well in a commercial sense). Can I have the customer boundary in a box on the side of the house or does it have to be the first telephone point as it is typically? If I can make the customer boundary on the outside wall next to the Electricity Box that would be ideal. Then I guess I would run 2 ethernet cables from there to the 'server'. How can I go about getting this allowed from Telstra? Is there a specific termination device I have to have for the customer boundary?? Neither did I and I know what an MDF is ..and like i said not used in Domestic Installs Telstra Use a NTD grey looking box that the 2 pair terminates onto. you should re read or get the latest version of the standards... either 2pair gel filled or cat5e is fine.. tho make sure there is enough "spare" cat5e in the wall cavity so it doesn't get trashed from install to the time that it takes telstra to come out once you are in the house also that it doesn't get trashed by the weather ______________________________ Jimako Additional questions. Do you think I will need provision for more than 1 coax to the roof? What sort of hubs/servers are out there for homes and can you get a combined panel for coax and ethernet? I have only seen the typical 24 or 48 port P/Panels used in most commercial jobs. ie Krone, Clipsal, Molex etc There are gay looking 10/100 clipsal star serve in cavity mounted cabinets that clipsal and Hills (hills home hub) make personally i think they are a waste of space for techincally minded IT people where as other systems can be instlaled ie Amdex's 10" cabinet and patch panel systems both for ethernet and RG6 wold be really good if you are having servers else where Jimako The provision for data/coax at the fridge + garage - overkill? define over kill..... did a house with 35 Cat6 points cleint wanted more.... at the end of the day .. you can either kick yourself for too many or not enough ..I'd rather kick myself for too many Jimako Home speaker system, I have installed PA Systems around the place for police/fire stations etc. I would like to setup around my TV, 2 wall speakers (flush with the wall) + Sub and 2 ceiling speakers. In addition I would like to have ceiling speakers (to perhaps play something else in the garage and perhaps outdoors at the back) This would effectively be a multi zone system wouldn't it and the best spot for this Audio equipment would be in a cabinet under the TV would it not? I personally would keep all the gear away from everyone else in the hosue and with out seeing your plans i can't really comment on where you could install such stuff.. you may have done comercial/ goverment installs in the past but domestic cabling is really another kettle of fish Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 6Dec 29, 2009 11:22 am Thanks Pugs, Yeah I understand Domestic is different, that's why I am posting here. I Read the standards again and noticed the NTD is the customer boundary so effectively the same thing as an MDF, still the customer boundary. Is the NTD Standard nowdays or a telstra still putting the boundary at the first T/O, That's the part i'm confused about. As for the speaker system, I plan to run 14 gauge speaker wire suitable also for wall cavities to each volume control. There will be 4 Volume controls but 3 zones as the Living/Dining is effectively the same zone (just occasionally I would like to turn of the dining). I plan to install this as in the image below. All back to a little cabinet, alongside the other video equipment below the wall mounted TV in the living. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 7Dec 29, 2009 11:43 am Jimako Thanks Pugs, Yeah I understand Domestic is different, that's why I am posting here. I Read the standards again and noticed the NTD is the customer boundary so effectively the same thing as an MDF, still the customer boundary. Is the NTD Standard nowdays or a telstra still putting the boundary at the first T/O, That's the part i'm confused about. an NTD/ "Madison box" is the clear winner for new builds for Telstra. It gets them onto the house and defines their role... the NTD is the demarckation point for telstra.. they get dail tone to that point and then they leave site. the CPR's are fairly clear about that. they do attach all the cables up tho if you have any poking out of the wall ..that they are nice about that.. Jimako As for the speaker system, I plan to run 14 gauge speaker wire suitable also for wall cavities to each volume control. There will be 4 Volume controls but 3 zones as the Living/Dining is effectively the same zone (just occasionally I would like to turn of the dining). I plan to install this as in the image below. All back to a little cabinet, alongside the other video equipment below the wall mounted TV in the living. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ sounds good to me... Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 8Dec 29, 2009 1:00 pm Jimako @ 71monaro I like the idea of the IP Camera's, sounds expensive though Would they be Coax or ethernet, or both? Do they need individual power supplies? They can be quite cheap, especially if you dont want pan and tilt. They require a power source and run over a single cat5e cable with a local power source (plug pack) or you could use cat6, which is required with Power Over Ethernet (POE). This is where the camera's only connection is the ethernet cable, but you need a switch (or an inline box possibly) that feeds the power into the ethernet cable. So not a lot of extra cost if already running a home server that is on all the time. PS you mention emergency service work, I work for SAPOL's Communication Infrastructure branch. Slab poured 21/04/2011 Frame finished 27/05/2011 Moved in 07/11/2011 Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 9Dec 29, 2009 1:49 pm Pugs Jimako Thanks Pugs, Yeah I understand Domestic is different, that's why I am posting here. I Read the standards again and noticed the NTD is the customer boundary so effectively the same thing as an MDF, still the customer boundary. Is the NTD Standard nowdays or a telstra still putting the boundary at the first T/O, That's the part i'm confused about. an NTD/ "Madison box" is the clear winner for new builds for Telstra. It gets them onto the house and defines their role... the NTD is the demarckation point for telstra.. they get dail tone to that point and then they leave site. the CPR's are fairly clear about that. they do attach all the cables up tho if you have any poking out of the wall ..that they are nice about that.. Jimako As for the speaker system, I plan to run 14 gauge speaker wire suitable also for wall cavities to each volume control. There will be 4 Volume controls but 3 zones as the Living/Dining is effectively the same zone (just occasionally I would like to turn of the dining). I plan to install this as in the image below. All back to a little cabinet, alongside the other video equipment below the wall mounted TV in the living. Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ sounds good to me... Pugs, Sounds like the NTD is just what I am after! Would you bother with running anything else to it or would 2 ethernet cables (with some slack in the wall) be ample you think? Maybe I am better off installing a nice roomy conduit with sweeping elbows at least 32mm from the roof space all the way to the NTD on the exterior wall. If I wish to get foxtel will they have a similar thing like the customer boundary to which then I can extend to the 'HUB' 71monaro Jimako @ 71monaro I like the idea of the IP Camera's, sounds expensive though Would they be Coax or ethernet, or both? Do they need individual power supplies? They can be quite cheap, especially if you dont want pan and tilt. They require a power source and run over a single cat5e cable with a local power source (plug pack) or you could use cat6, which is required with Power Over Ethernet (POE). This is where the camera's only connection is the ethernet cable, but you need a switch (or an inline box possibly) that feeds the power into the ethernet cable. So not a lot of extra cost if already running a home server that is on all the time. PS you mention emergency service work, I work for SAPOL's Communication Infrastructure branch. Yeah we have probably crossed paths . I done some work at carrington st, flinders st, Henley Beach, Netley, Sturt, Christies, Golden Grove Police Stations (Fibre, Ethernet, PA various stuff) and at MFS HQ and quite a few suburban MFS Stations doing DATA, INTERCOM, PABX. Done some Automation, Intercom, CCTV and MATV for commercial companies, Major hospitals in Adelaide and Rural areas also. I've have my finger in every pie, just not the domestic sector Which IP Cameras do you recommend for a home? Do you have a link. I don't have much of a yard so it is probably not worth it. I will allow provision for cat 6 anyway to the corners of the home as that sounds like the way to go. Heck I'll even run a couple to the gate for the intercom camera now that I think about it! Re: My proposed data plan- your opinion please. 10Dec 29, 2009 2:12 pm Jimako Pugs, Sounds like the NTD is just what I am after! Would you bother with running anything else to it or would 2 ethernet cables (with some slack in the wall) be ample you think? NTD is supplied by Telstra as part of the $299* connection fee along with the lead in cable most sparkies are good enough that they will install the comms conduit in the ground at the same time as power but double check that this is happening.. then all you need to worry about is the internal stuff 2pair is all that is needed reguardless, unless you are building in a FTTH estate then you need to have what is required to get all that working installed Jimako Maybe I am better off installing a nice roomy conduit with sweeping elbows at least 32mm from the roof space all the way to the NTD on the exterior wall. all cabling to the NTD is internal till just near the NTD where it comes out of the wall. you could have one inside the wall space... would be a good for when FTTH rolls out with the NBN Jimako If I wish to get foxtel will they have a similar thing like the customer boundary to which then I can extend to the 'HUB' depends on where you are building if they have street cables yeah just get 2 x RG6 quad shield cables to near the NTD or not if not then a dish will be installed on the roof and if you chucked up 2 x RG6 quad shield cables into the roof space with slack then you will be right. plus one for FTA TV antenna Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Do you really want to accommodate the window? What is on the outside of the window? Do you want to be able to see your towels from outside? I would blank the window from… 2 6688 Scientists have used random matrix theory to demonstrate theoretically that the neutrino mass hierarchy can be explained mathematically. When a substance is fragmented… 21 20650 If you're referring to Eufy homebase, then just put a switch between a datapoint and put the homebase elsewhere near another device in your home unless you want teh… 9 13845 |