Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Sep 13, 2009 11:10 pm Hi everyone! Been spending the last few days scouring for information regarding home networking and home theatre setups, as we have our electrical appointment in 2 weeks time and would like to try and get things right! This will be our third house, but first house build, and not planning to move for a good few decades! First of all, I'm fairly cluey with electronics etc but not down to extreme detail, so some of my terminology may not be 100% correct, please bear with me! We use wireless networking currently, but I want a few wired network points through the house for streaming video, as I'll eventually set up a dedicated server to hold all the photos, movies, music etc. I'm thinking to have all the network points terminate to a patch panel under the stairs. We also haven't had a landline phone for 4 years, but there will be 2 phone points by the builder. The issue is, haven't decided to go with ADSL or cable yet. If ADSL, then we'll probably have to add another phone point under the stairs, so we can then connect the adsl router/wireless to it, and from there we can plug in all the other network points, does this sound right? And should we go with cable, I'm not sure where the cable connection will be in the house. But if it's close to a network point, then we can still connect the cable modem through the network point to the patch panel? Here is the network plan, each green box is a network point (erm... ethernet point? RJ45 or something?). I've read up on starserve and other things, but I reckon all we need is a patch panel and some space for a router and the server and that should do. We don't need/want to stream or direct TV/DVDs etc around the house, we don't need pay TV/foxtel either, and that would be the only benefit of starserve or similar system over a patch panel? Any comments and feedback more than welcome! Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Also have some questions regarding the HT room. Here is the layout detail so far; Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ At this stage my main concern is how to wire up HDMI to the projector, and wiring to the rear speakers. The builder is providing component, composite and a power point to the projector location but not HDMI. If I can get them to install conduit (with wire pulls) in the main wall where the equipment will be, this should be sufficient to run through a long HDMI cable and some speaker wiring to the rear speakers? I also read about HDMI over ethernet cables, is this a potential situation where it could be used - ie a run of ethernet cable from the equipment to the projector location in the ceiling? Another alternative may be to run speaker cabling under the carpet (rather than through the roof) - I'm just worried that it may get damaged from walking over, or from the carpet installation procedure. I'm not sure whether the main wall where the equipment is will have access after handover - the first floor section ends right over that wall, so pre-installed conduit would be ideal I'm thinking. Has anyone built with m3tr!con and know if they can arrange that? Thanks everyone Tim Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 2Sep 14, 2009 10:12 am A few quick comments to get you started: * On your network diagram, show a second run from the "hub" to the HT as you are having two network points, therefore 2 cable runs required. * I would have one of the phone point where your hub is, this way you can patch a phone line to anyone of your data points just by patching differently at the hub. I know you said you didnt use them, but may not be a bad idea * If your having an alarm put in, or think you will want one in future, run a data point / phone point to that location now * I am building with PD and having a 50mm conduit installed for future AV cables. It was $50 which I thought was a bit pricey. Think about the size you need, I chose 50mm as a DVI cable is about that wide. * In your case, a 5 to 7m HDMI cable would do nicely for connecting the projector. I wouldnt waste the energy on a conversion kit as it is a short run. * You wireless router doesnt need to sit where the patch panel is if you dont want it to. It can be located elsewhere and connect back through one of the data points if there is a more central location or you need than one to have full coverage of the house. * Run speaker wires through the wall, not under the carpet. You can use the same conduit your using for your HDMI cable. * Access to your network hub is critical for the future upgrades. Make sure you have the ability to run many more cables to it. Ps. I am building single storey, so not 100% on the access issues with double. Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 3Sep 16, 2009 10:20 am Hi Tim. Ditto on the HDMI for the projector - anything up to a 20m HDMI cable is still OK if its an unbroken run (ei. don't terminate it with wallplates at either end, rather simply have it come out of a neat 'portal' (there are a couple of different types) at either end and connect direct to the component (projector <==> AV Reciever)), and the cable is decent quality. Even if the HDMI cable is 10m or less I still recommend this approach unless you really want the look and functionality of having it terminated with a wallplate. If you have or get an AV Receiver that has HDMI in/out and does video up-conversion all the way to HDMI (for all video signals) then you will only need to run HDMI to the projector - you won't need to run Composite or Component Video up there. Regarding allowances for 'switches' for your projector and motorised screen - you should make sure the screen comes with included IR control, and the projector definitely will, so you won't need to worry about where or how they are controlled. Wiring for speakers is easy - just run the wires through the walls/ceiling to the speaker locations - you don't need to put them in conduit. Don't run then under the carpet - there is no need and I can't see any plus from doing it that way. Having just read your post again (sorry, I'm still a bit groggy considering I moved house on Monday!!, and only got my TV antenna wiring working last night... ) and realised you are building with M3tric0n and it sounds like they are providing some sort of 'standard' video cabling options (which are not the most suitable and are actually out-dated by todays standards...) and are being a little inflexible . The above is what I would do and recommend every time - good luck... Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 4Sep 16, 2009 10:09 pm as for networking .. I'd chuck a couple of at least doubles in the study and also cable up th other 3 bed rooms . and also a 4 data inte HT be surprised how many devices need it these days.... also remember a data point can also double a phone point.... anyways thats my peice any questions feel free to ask..... word and all that................. Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 5Sep 16, 2009 11:28 pm Thanks for the comments guys, every little bit helps Sierra: yep, two data runs to the HT. If I were to just have one data cable, would I be able to put a mini switch in here to connect 2 or more other things like consoles, computers etc; or does each wired device require a wired run back to the patch panel? Am definitely adding a phone outlet to the patch panel area. So is it as simple as a phone outlet being exactly the same as a data outlet (cat5?) ANy dangers if you accidently plus a network cable from a computer into a phone connected outlet, or vice versa? Rodda: yep, in my last house I had a sparky run component through the walls and out a neat little plug outlet thingy in the roof to the projector. I'm just worred about how easy it is to run wires through the main wall, as there's acoustitherm insulation in all the walls of the HT room, and a bedroom wall right above it. I think conduit is hopefully my best bet for future cable runs! I already have a motorised 120" projector screen with remote, and an old Benq dlp projector (4:3, no HDMI or HD, but the next one will). I was actually wanting a remote switch to the ceiling power points, just so I can have the power off at the switch rather than having it on all the time. Pugs: only one bedroom upstairs is wired as that may be my second work room. Don't want the kids having internet or TVs in their bedrooms As for how many connections I put in the HT room, depends if I can put a switch or some other hub type thing there in future, which would probably be my preference! Tim Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 6Sep 17, 2009 11:20 am slknv I was actually wanting a remote switch to the ceiling power points, just so I can have the power off at the switch rather than having it on all the time. This has been suggested in one of the HT threads and this is what I asked my sparky to do. The ceiling powerpoint switch will be placed together with my light switches. It will surely take the hassle out of using a broomstick to turn off the powerpoint Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 7Sep 21, 2009 1:11 pm reaver: yup, actually a mate of mine suggested located the projector PP in the roof space itself so that the powerpoint isn't visible from below - I love that idea so will request that to be done! Does anyone with data skills know if I can just run one Cat6 cable to the HT, then use another router or switch there to connect up a bunch more machines? M want $146 per data cable run, so I'd rather run 1 than 4! Very unlikely all 4 devices will need to connect to the net at once. Did I mention the $500+ they want to install an HDMI cable to the projector, or the same amount to wire in a couple of rear speakers? Tim Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 8Sep 21, 2009 1:47 pm Quote: Does anyone with data skills know if I can just run one Cat6 cable to the HT, then use another router or switch there to connect up a bunch more machines? Yes you can - I'm doing it now with a wireless router connected to a single point in my study so I have 3 ports in use on the router (2 computers & a printer) and visitors can use wireless. Internet is not an issue even if all ports are running because the cable can carry a whole lot more than your internet connection has available Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 9Sep 30, 2009 2:37 pm Had our electrical appointment yesterday, went fairly well! M won't do plain conduit (clearly they want you to buy their $300 component cable) so I'm just getting a junction box to roof space with switch to power my projector and screen. Will end up building a false wall for all the equipment and run speaker & projector cabling through that. Stuck in a whole bunch of lights, GPOs, junction boxes etc etc and upgraded the gas heater to 4 star with zoning, and today we're $10,000 poorer than yesterday! T&T Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 10Sep 30, 2009 4:14 pm wow you getting gold plated data sockets ??? at 146/ run you are getting slightly ripped off Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 11Sep 30, 2009 5:03 pm nope, at $146/run we're getting very ripped off, but the builder won't allow my subcontractors on site, nor will they install conduit for me, so what else is there? Suggestions welcome... they also wanted $2500 for a $400 alarm too Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 12Sep 30, 2009 5:23 pm slknv nope, at $146/run we're getting very ripped off, but the builder won't allow my subcontractors on site, nor will they install conduit for me, so what else is there? Suggestions welcome... Holes in the noggins will allow you (via a fully licensed cabler, of course) to do whatever you like after handover. So, some suggestions might be ... Quiet Sunday afternoon ... your able-bodied self ... and a drill. OR Have a quiet word to the chippie or sparky (you'd be surprised, they are usually approachable and will understand your situation). Hopefully the plasterboard will be up before anyone is any the wiser (except for you armed with the knowledge of where those holes are). The other option is to raise the issue with the builder to allow you to at least have holes drilled in the noggins in light of the unreasonable costs associated with installing cable runs. Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 13Sep 30, 2009 5:57 pm JilaMint slknv nope, at $146/run we're getting very ripped off, but the builder won't allow my subcontractors on site, nor will they install conduit for me, so what else is there? Suggestions welcome... Holes in the noggins will allow you (via a fully licensed cabler, of course) to do whatever you like after handover. So, some suggestions might be ... Quiet Sunday afternoon ... your able-bodied self ... and a drill. OR Have a quiet word to the chippie or sparky (you'd be surprised, they are usually approachable and will understand your situation). Hopefully the plasterboard will be up before anyone is any the wiser (except for you armed with the knowledge of where those holes are). The other option is to raise the issue with the builder to allow you to at least have holes drilled in the noggins in light of the unreasonable costs associated with installing cable runs. duh.. silly me i forgot to suggest this very good option ... + 1 rep to jila Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: Electrical plan Please comment re networking, HT room setup! 14Oct 01, 2009 10:55 am JilaMint Holes in the noggins will allow you (via a fully licensed cabler, of course) to do whatever you like after handover. So, some suggestions might be ... Quiet Sunday afternoon ... your able-bodied self ... and a drill. OR Have a quiet word to the chippie or sparky (you'd be surprised, they are usually approachable and will understand your situation). Ah, I see.. good little bit of advice; but if I'm also get acoustitherm insulation in the walls, wouldn't that sort of block up all the gaps between noggins etc? I guess the thing to do would be to approach the chippie/spark onsite and get them to stick in the conduit for me. Anyway we;ll see how it goes, still waiting on the electrical plan to come back with proper amendments - thanks for the advice so far guys! Tim Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au Re: Electrical plan done! Q: Can cbus be retrofitted to my HT? 15Oct 03, 2009 10:39 am Right, electrical plan has been finished and we've signed off on it, after a little stuffing about by the electrical people! Anyway, I'm going to get my sparky in after handover to put in 9 downlights in the HT (in place of the 3 batten lights), wire up projector & screen, speakers etc, and was thinking of maybe putting in the bare minimum of automation required to do the following automatically:
I went to the clipsal demo house in nth fitzroy last week and their HT room was pretty impressive - could I retrofit c-bus just to my HT to achieve what I'm wanting, or is there any other HT automation gear I could use to do the same thing? Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au Re: Electrical plan done! Q: Can cbus be retrofitted to my HT? 16Oct 03, 2009 12:46 pm All of those items (other than dimming the lights) could be controlled via a decent all-in-one remote. You need to install the separate automation (with remote controls) for the curtains, projector screen and lowering of projector platform. Then program an all-in-one remote (like a logitech) to control each item. I'm not sure what advantage a c-bus gives you other than to be able to control the lighting. Someone else might be able to comment on c-bus. Re: New house build: What tools, hardware for AV prewiring? 17Nov 15, 2009 7:38 pm OK guys... just an update to my original post, we've finished pretty much all the preparatory work for the house build - contracts are signed, colours, tiles, electricals everything all in order. The demolition was meant to be complete last week but due to delays the house is still standing angry.gif but will hopefully be cleared by end of this week so that building may commence - not that much will be done before xmas, but a start is still a start! I ended up going with just one Cat6 to about 7 locations, returning to the linen cupboard along with the TV splitter box, cable point etc. Was meant to go to a storage area under stairs, but my partner chose fancy stairs that cost a fortune and don't have any room underneath for storage! In my electrical appointment, I ended up taking out all prewiring for audio/video as the builder was charging an absolutely monstrous amount - plus, the HT room has no first floor above, so my sparky reckons he can get into it after handover without too much bother. However, I figure I'll go buy a whole lot of speaker wire etc and run it through the frame before plaster goes up, that'll make things a lot easier. And while I'm at it, I'll maybe run speaker wire everywhere - it's relatively cheap and might as well do it during construction. Was browsing for info on how to do it - OK, the easy part is getting my drill and running speaker/HDMI cable through noggins, avoiding electrical wires, but what I'm uncertain about is how do you locate the ends of cable runs in walls/ceilings once plaster goes up? What I found on the net looks good - little plastic boxes to coil up ends of wire runs, would make it much easier to connect to through plaster, and very neat. Like these! http://www.eliteavi.com/blogpictures/052.JPG Guy installing little boxes to frame Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Like ⋅ Add a comment ⋅ Pin to Ideaboard ⋅ Can anyone tell me where I can get these from? I'm in Vic eastern suburbs. Also, if there's any simple guide to instructing on prewiring, please let me know! Tim Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au Re: New house build: What tools, hardware for AV prewiring? 18Nov 15, 2009 8:19 pm slknv Was browsing for info on how to do it - OK, the easy part is getting my drill and running speaker/HDMI cable through noggins, avoiding electrical wires, but what I'm uncertain about is how do you locate the ends of cable runs in walls/ceilings once plaster goes up? Tim Easy mark on the floor in Big Think Black Texter.. with an arrow pointing towards the wall the distance from the slab in mm then in same size lettering AFL (Above Floor Level) and the gyprockers will drill a hole at the height. will be most likey about 25 - 35mm in size... some times up to 50mm as they are used to doign them for the sparkies and other trades who use wall plates. sometimes you might even get Lucky that they will pull the cables out.. (offer them a beer or two for this).. other way is a cable tracer but buying one just for a once off job is a waste of time. IMO like wise for the HMDI cable aswell make sure you know when they will be starting and have a quiet word to them... and have a quiet word to your SS about this cabling.. some will be fine with it other not so and others will remove the cabling if they don't like it at all. also when "pre installing " make sure you put a plastic bag around each end of the connector nothing worse then installauing a $200+ cable only to have it full of gyprock dust/ paint when you try to use it. Kodiak Data Cabling onFaceBook Consult*, Design and Installation Data, TV, Home Theatre/ AV Cabling, Multi Room Audio, IP CCTV and Door Intercoms Ask for a Quote. *DIY DATA Cabling Is Ilegal Re: New house build: What tools, hardware for AV prewiring? 19Nov 16, 2009 8:50 am I find it very easy to take heaps of photos of every cable and location where you ran stuff - wide angles (to get the whole wall) and close-ups, so as long as you have them as a reference and a stud finder you should be able to locate any of them (as long as some other trade doesn't move them after you've run them...) after the plaster is up. Re: New house build: What tools, hardware for AV prewiring? 20Nov 16, 2009 6:02 pm Pugs Easy mark on the floor in Big Think Black Texter.. with an arrow pointing towards the wall the distance from the slab in mm then in same size lettering AFL (Above Floor Level) and the gyprockers will drill a hole at the height. will be most likey about 25 - 35mm in size... some times up to 50mm as they are used to doign them for the sparkies and other trades who use wall plates....also when "pre installing " make sure you put a plastic bag around each end of the connector nothing worse then installauing a $200+ cable only to have it full of gyprock dust/ paint when you try to use it. Mmm - simple and effective way to mark in the wire locations - great! will do this! Plastic bags over connectors - check. Rodda I find it very easy to take heaps of photos of every cable and location where you ran stuff - wide angles (to get the whole wall) and close-ups, so as long as you have them as a reference and a stud finder you should be able to locate any of them (as long as some other trade doesn't move them after you've run them...) after the plaster is up. Yep, was planning to do that too - and I guess if the boxes are installed near studs, with the markings on the floor and photos, should be easy to locate again. Any advice on where to buy those little palstic boxes to curl up wires in? I figure I'll start at bunnings and try electrical shops after that. Tim Knockdown and rebuild - building Metr1con Nolan 41 (43) @ http://tim-and-tina.blogspot.com! http://www.verdantdental.com.au That sucks! Hope it all works out. Good to move away from steel anyway for all your reasons, but it's also thermally poor. 16 17724 If what you describe is correct then the brick wall has been dry lined with villa board. That basically means that the villa board is glued to the brick wall with… 3 8294 I'm putting a new floor in my kitchen, slate flagging on a standard concrete slab. I have allowed for a bed thickness of up to 20mm to accommodate the different… 0 17530 |