Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation Re: Clipsal C-Bus 61Nov 03, 2010 4:09 am Yes please. Where is the OU being installed and its noise impact? Would like to know how cool it can get in the ever hotting up climate. Re: Clipsal C-Bus 62Nov 05, 2010 10:55 am Hi P1T, Good to see the install is coming along nicely mate and that you are well planned! I will be unfortunately involved in the retro fit option myself. We moved into our new house at the start of the year and I have been slowly building up my collection of cbus gear to accomodate the entire house. I now have all the gear aswell as the same switchboards that you have in your place. Being in the security industry I am not a qualified sparky so I will have to outsource the 240 work to a qualified contractor. I have drawn all my lighting plans and mounted all my downlights in readiness but the rough-in is going to be a real pain even though I have a tiled, single storey place. I was originally going to go down the UPB path and have been waiting 2 years for the second generation of gear to be released here but unfortunatley what I was originally told in regards to its retro fit capabilities compared to what the manufacturer actually told me at this years Cedia show were two completely different things which forced me to go to a hard wired solution. The lighting is the final component for me as I have installed a full HAI automation system with the usual crap...touchscreens/access control/multi room audio/intergration to my Brivis central heating etc. etc. It has a big ****** factor but way I look at it is that I never paid anyone to do it (i installed everything myself) and that it showcases everything I have learnt for visitors that may be intersted in even a single aspect of what I have done whether it be just the audio or even the data/tv network in the house plus..... it is really cool... and because I travel, I can see and control my whole place from my Iphone. One interesting point made was the perseption people are given about how hard it is to setup and program the cbus and the associated costs to do so. If anyone has industry technical and programming knowledge (sorry to the Cbus integrators out there)then anything is possible. I had never, ever seen the tool kit before nor touched the cbus stuff but I just downloaded the software a few months ago and 4 -5 hours later (from my lighting plans) I had my entire house programmed offline ready for the installation! Mind you, it is essential (and you have demonstrated this) that planning is the just as important if not more so than any other aspect to ensuring problem free and cost effective installation. Can I ask, what sort of circuit protection did you incorporate into your design i.e. RCDs per dimmer/MCB per output etc. etc. as ths is something I won't take short cuts with and any protection for my investment is worth the money. Also, all my current cabling i.e. TV/Cat5/Cat6/Phone/Security is on Cat wire. I was thinking about doing the same for the 1.5mm feeds to all my lights. What did your sparkies do? Any feedback would be ace. Cheers Trav Re: Clipsal C-Bus 64Nov 06, 2010 8:03 am TBM1 One interesting point made was the perseption people are given about how hard it is to setup and program the cbus and the associated costs to do so. If anyone has industry technical and programming knowledge (sorry to the Cbus integrators out there)then anything is possible. I had never, ever seen the tool kit before nor touched the cbus stuff but I just downloaded the software a few months ago and 4 -5 hours later (from my lighting plans) I had my entire house programmed offline ready for the installation! Mind you, it is essential (and you have demonstrated this) that planning is the just as important if not more so than any other aspect to ensuring problem free and cost effective installation. So true, go to the C-bus forums and the way some of the guys carry on you would think it is brain surgery. Now whilst some of what these guys are trying to do is akin to brain surgery, the vast majority of it is pretty logical for anyone with a technical or programming background. TBM1 Can I ask, what sort of circuit protection did you incorporate into your design i.e. RCDs per dimmer/MCB per output etc. etc. as ths is something I won't take short cuts with and any protection for my investment is worth the money. For 1 you only need a single RCD per circuit. Putting them in multiple places won't make any difference. When it comes to MCB's, the Clipsal training material says put one on every relay/dimmer unit AND on the output of every dimmer channel, the theory being this will somehow magically protect the dimmer channels from potential damage. However the experts over there, including those employed by Clipsal all say it is a waste of time because MCB's are designed to protect the CABLE from melting due to overload, not to protect the actual equipment, in this case the dimmer. The discussion is in this thread: http://www.cbusforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6289 (Mods hope this is ok, after all its not like the forum above is a competitor to this one) Re: Clipsal C-Bus 65Nov 07, 2010 1:05 pm Hi Just reading your threads. We are in the process of design - for the third time - and was wanting some advice. I am really keen on automating my house, however, our newest designer believes it will all become outdated. With all applications iphone or ipod driven, that the wiring and hardware required for cbus will become obsolete. What are your opinions? I have had a quote on automating a 62 square double story house, and was looking at $70k+ for lighting; audio, video streaming, heat/cooling and security. This was to contract all products and programming. Is there a better way? It was using Cbus for lighting, sonos for audio and i cant remember at the top of my head what else. Ness seems to ring a bell. I saw the posts regarding wireless cbus - for existing wiring i believe. But is this a more cost efficent way to go? I look forward to reading your responses. Re: Clipsal C-Bus 66Nov 07, 2010 1:43 pm Quote: Quote from Tpm1 The lighting is the final component for me as I have installed a full HAI automation system with the usual crap...touchscreens/access control/multi room audio/intergration to my Brivis central heating etc. etc. It has a big ****** factor but way I look at it is that I never paid anyone to do it (i installed everything myself) and that it showcases everything I have learnt for visitors that may be intersted in even a single aspect of what I have done whether it be just the audio or even the data/tv network in the house plus..... it is really cool... and because I travel, I can see and control my whole place from my Iphone. Trav, I have been looking at the hai stuff as well but i can not get my head around the prices they are asking for it in Australia vs the USA its 3 times the price. I have a couple of questions for you, Did you you have a layout of when you put it in ? Did you buy it local ? Do you have photos of the install ? What state are you in ? What did it cost you for the HAI system if you don't mind me asking. I am not sure weather to put it in or not. Thanks Mark Re: Clipsal C-Bus 68Nov 08, 2010 9:03 am cfmboots Hi Just reading your threads. We are in the process of design - for the third time - and was wanting some advice. I am really keen on automating my house, however, our newest designer believes it will all become outdated. With all applications iphone or ipod driven, that the wiring and hardware required for cbus will become obsolete. What are your opinions? I have had a quote on automating a 62 square double story house, and was looking at $70k+ for lighting; audio, video streaming, heat/cooling and security. This was to contract all products and programming. Is there a better way? It was using Cbus for lighting, sonos for audio and i cant remember at the top of my head what else. Ness seems to ring a bell. I saw the posts regarding wireless cbus - for existing wiring i believe. But is this a more cost efficent way to go? I look forward to reading your responses. Far Far Far to expensive but on the money if your looking at doing a Cbus home automation system Re: Clipsal C-Bus 70Nov 09, 2010 11:20 am Hi Guys, Sorry I haven't replied sooner. Seems to be alot of talk about Cbus and integration. Jezza, Looked at the UPB gear and this gear simply couldn't accomodate a one-for-one changeover that allowed the switching/dimming of multiple circuits via the Gen II switches i.e removing a 4/5/6 gang switch where there are multiple loads terminated and installing a Gen II UPB switch as there was simply no provision on their switches to do so. This I feel defeats the purpose of a retro design but that is only my opinion. The options for a retro fit were very limited and I was advised that I may still need to run slave UPB switches i.e. not connected to any existing loads but independant to control my downlights. It was hard getting reliable information and in the end, after waiting almost 18 months for its release I decided to go hard wired which I was annoyed about because if that was the choice from the start I could of at least run the Cbue BUS around my house for future. Thanks for the feedback AJW on circuit protection. I knew Clipsal recommended the individual protection but was curious to see how others may have completed their installs. I was advised that even installing a MCB on each dimmer output was fairly redundant due to the fact that by the time it tripped, the damage to the Cbus unit was already done. Hi Hilly, Okay. I will try and answer your questions as best I can and provide my personal experiences and thoughts on the matter. Did you you have a layout of when you put it in ? YES. I spent weeks designing my system and all my technologies/integration prior to ever running a cable but had started to collect the HAI gear over a 2 year period which allowed me to bench test the product and work out what needed to be wired to what, in what manner and identify any limitations/flaws in my design. Design is imperative and by the time it came to roughing in, I knew exactly what needed to go where without really consulting my plans and I was rather surprised that when everything was powered up, I never had any issues. As I built a media centre that runs a 17 screen in the kitchen that was converted to a touchscreen for media and cheap music distribution (as there are much, much better systems/options out there than what I did but cost is the killer) I had to also work out how it would integrate to the HAI HiFi box as well as simply extending the video/USB controls over my cat5 network from the central rack that housed the media centre. Doing all this on the 'test bench' helped eliminate any hidden issues and helped me put my design to practise. Did you buy it local ? No. I basically paid half of what it would have cost here by purchasing from the States. Warranty/repairs is a killer but for what I saved I can put up with it. Plus the HAI forum has been worth it's weight in gold when it comes to programming and install support. Just like this one. Do you have photos of the install ? I do but this site won't let me post. What state are you in ? Vic. What did it cost you for the HAI system if you don't mind me asking? I spent just over 15k on the HAI gear so you can imagine what it would have cost buying it here. I estimate my entire install if I had of quoted it to somebody to be between 65 and 70K which is quite a small, basic option compared to some multi million dollar homes you see! This would include labour but doesn't include my cbus gear that I have just purchased (another 9k) or the cost to get a sparky to install. Hope this helps you and if you need more info, I am happy to help. Trav Re: Clipsal C-Bus 71Nov 09, 2010 1:19 pm I understand alot of what you are saying TBM1 and your point of view but you have to be careful and i mean careful about the practicality and layout that you place UPB in. Fundementally it is what should be understood as a simple and affordable lighting system that should always be prestented in a partial kind of way. Simply because doing whole a house lighting is a very expensive no matter what lighting system you choose though if you are given the option of just doing the main areas such as the master bedroom, home theatre, lounge, kitchen dining and leaving out the other areas where you dont do much living and dont need ambience because ambience and liveable lighting is what its all about. This gives you the option of saving say 2-5 k and spending it on your entertainment needs as an example. To clarify your point of having multiple loads of lighting to one switch the company is realeasing a in-wall module which is slightly bigger than a matchbox size that you can place down the side of a switch location and connect to a slave unit. For example you may have 4 loads coming back to a single lighting switch then what you would do is purchase 4 in-wall module and link it to a slave. In regards to what you were told this product wasnt released with UPB generation II so the option wasnt available until now. It really doesnt matter though C-bus intergration into an HAI system works exactly the same as UPB does in terms of interfacing. Re: Clipsal C-Bus 72Nov 10, 2010 4:07 pm TBM1 ...I spent weeks designing my system and all my technologies/integration prior to ever running a cable but had started to collect the HAI gear over a 2 year period which allowed me to bench test the product and work out what needed to be wired to what, in what manner and identify any limitations/flaws in my design. Design is imperative and by the time it came to roughing in, I knew exactly what needed to go where without really consulting my plans and I was rather surprised that when everything was powered up, I never had any issues. As I built a media centre that runs a 17 screen in the kitchen that was converted to a touchscreen for media and cheap music distribution (as there are much, much better systems/options out there than what I did but cost is the killer) I had to also work out how it would integrate to the HAI HiFi box as well as simply extending the video/USB controls over my cat5 network from the central rack that housed the media centre. Doing all this on the 'test bench' helped eliminate any hidden issues and helped me put my design to practise. Trav Hi Trav - would be very interested to see what you have done with the HAI gear - particularly around integrating with media centre. Now that I am fully cabled I am trying to work out a plan of attack for AV distribution from a central point without spending mega$. Any info you could offer (either in here or via PM) would be greatly appreciated! Also if anybody has recommendations on roller-blind motors, please let me know, going to be chasing 15 of them early in the new year. P1T Read about my building experience: http://secondhomebuild.blogspot.com Dale Alcock Homes - 'The Nautilus' in Bletchley Park, Southern River - WA Read about my Clipsal C-BUS Home Automation Project: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=20854 Re: Clipsal C-Bus 73Nov 10, 2010 4:13 pm cfmboots I have had a quote on automating a 62 square double story house, and was looking at $70k+ for lighting; audio, video streaming, heat/cooling and security. This was to contract all products and programming. Is there a better way? It was using Cbus for lighting, sonos for audio and i cant remember at the top of my head what else. Ness seems to ring a bell. I saw the posts regarding wireless cbus - for existing wiring i believe. But is this a more cost efficent way to go? I look forward to reading your responses. Hi cfmboots - its alot of money, but throughout the process just try and keep focused on the outcomes (rather than what equipment is going to give you those outcomes) - $70k is not an unusual amount of money to spend on home automation and technology improvements in a house the size of yours, but if they are providing you with 'bells and wistles' that you don't want, simply ask to have them taken from the build, or replaced with something similar. A classic example is with Sonos (and other multi room audio) - if you do not need individual music in every room, there is no need to put devices in to cater for that need today. With speakers in place and cabled back to a central point, extra zones can always be added later without even getting into the roof space. Good luck on your journey - sure is plenty of people around here that can provide advice. P1T Read about my building experience: http://secondhomebuild.blogspot.com Dale Alcock Homes - 'The Nautilus' in Bletchley Park, Southern River - WA Read about my Clipsal C-BUS Home Automation Project: https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=20854 Re: Clipsal C-Bus 74Nov 10, 2010 4:22 pm Perth-1st Timer TBM1 ...I spent weeks designing my system and all my technologies/integration prior to ever running a cable but had started to collect the HAI gear over a 2 year period which allowed me to bench test the product and work out what needed to be wired to what, in what manner and identify any limitations/flaws in my design. Design is imperative and by the time it came to roughing in, I knew exactly what needed to go where without really consulting my plans and I was rather surprised that when everything was powered up, I never had any issues. As I built a media centre that runs a 17 screen in the kitchen that was converted to a touchscreen for media and cheap music distribution (as there are much, much better systems/options out there than what I did but cost is the killer) I had to also work out how it would integrate to the HAI HiFi box as well as simply extending the video/USB controls over my cat5 network from the central rack that housed the media centre. Doing all this on the 'test bench' helped eliminate any hidden issues and helped me put my design to practise. Trav Hi Trav - would be very interested to see what you have done with the HAI gear - particularly around integrating with media centre. Now that I am fully cabled I am trying to work out a plan of attack for AV distribution from a central point without spending mega$. Any info you could offer (either in here or via PM) would be greatly appreciated! Also if anybody has recommendations on roller-blind motors, please let me know, going to be chasing 15 of them early in the new year. AV distribution is very simple and affordable. Get a HDMI matrix switch Run: 2 cat 6 cables to each point 1 cat5 for IR 1 cat6 for DLNA To every premium location Then add somthing like this to do the control of all your AV devices http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqGMli-gDzE Re: Clipsal C-Bus 75Nov 10, 2010 7:44 pm Speaking of blinds. They look brillant. If you don't mind, are you able to tell me where you get it from and what they are called. I was thinking of motorising them to but control it with a remote and switch plate next to it. Is there something that can do that? Re: Clipsal C-Bus 76Nov 12, 2010 1:23 pm Hi Guys, Think I have figured out the attachement issue so here goes.... Flush mounted enclosures for all the HAI gear http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/Decking151e.jpg All equipment was mounted onto metal stand-offs that I drilled and tapped onto the custom 3mm aluminium backing plates that I had manufactured. This allows extra stuff to be securely fitted and given the cabinets are flush mounted within the 90mm wall cavity, the ali panels eliminate any fixing screws going through the back of the cabinet and through to the other side of the wall. Don't laugh...I have seen this before!!!!!! http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/Decking161e.jpg All my cabing going to the rack. Each room has at least two custom plates that provide a network port, IR port, 2 x RG6 ports, 1 Phone port and 1 spare Cat5e port. Plus CCTV so hence the huge amount of cables. I estimate over 300 cables in my place. Thank god cable didn't cost me anything. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/Decking173e.jpg The comms rack that houses my Media Centre/IR distribution/Network, TV, & Phone distribution/PABX/UPS/DVR/CCTV etc. etc. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/IMG_2636e.jpg The HAI HiFi distribution box. Nice and neat and fairly good sound quality. This also announces custom messages over all my speakers such as "Music" or "Entertainment" or even "Rubbish Night" http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/Decking175e.jpg The 5.7 inch HAI Touchscreen. I also have there new IP PoE touchscreen but haven't installed it as yet. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/IMG_2627e.jpg The smaller HAI 3.5 inch touchscreen that is no longer sold. Was a nice little Ebay purchase. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/Decking165e.jpg The centre of attention.... The 17 inch LCD that I converted to touchscreen that allows me to select all the standard Windows Media Centre options as well as view all my cameras or access the internet. Funny, the wife seems to use this all the time! Spent alot of time on this. I had the stainless bezel cut to size and really finishes it off. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/IMG_2631e.jpg I have split and extended the vga signal from my media centre and sent it over Cat5 to my LCD. The aspect ratio is converted to the screen's native resolution via a box I got from the UK. I will eventually work on a better solution but for now, we can still watch recorded programs, play music or watch pictures comfortably. Will be putting a 65inch 3D plasma up soon so can't wait to see it on that. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/IMG_2633e.jpg One of the HAI HiFi volume controls. I wish I had my Saturn switches up instead of that crappy 2000 series switch so can't wait for the Cbus install. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/IMG_2634e.jpg The HAI thermostat that controls the Brivis central heating. Haven't worked on a solution for controlling the evap cooling as yet as we couldn't afford to install a advantage air or daiken system...these can fully integrate to the HAI. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/IMG_2632e.jpg A HAI access control reader and my intercom that runs throuh the PABX and I also modified to run it through the HAI for certain events. http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i475/ozsales_1980/HAI/IMG_2628e.jpg I will take some better photos of the completed panels but for now you get an idea and hopefully this may give a few of you some ideas. Sorry if I have hijacked this thread but now can we see some more Cbus install photos? Cheers, Trav Re: Clipsal C-Bus 77Nov 12, 2010 3:54 pm damm sexy..... 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