Clipsal C-Bus

Anybody using C-Bus in their house?

Anybody using C-Bus wireless in their house?

Just looking for opinions from those who have it installed RE: ongoing user-friendliness, inventive usage and component quality. I work for a Clipsal affiliated company and can get the hardware quite cheaply so cost is not so much a factor. Its more a case of 'should I do it' and take advantage of the situation or shouldnt I. ...I do like the 'gadget' factor...

Leaning towards using the wireless wall switches (http://www.clipsal.com/trade/news/archi ... bus_system) as this will avoid having to re-wire the whole house. I would then use a small wired network for integration with my security system and ducted AC unit (as well as provide a network access point to my normal LAN).

Key points that appeal to me are:

- Lighting Control
-- switches controlling multiple light-runs
-- timer settings for pantry/laundry/WIRs
-- Scene settings ("Watching TV", "Welcome Home", "Sleep-Time/All-Off")
- Security Integration
-- Panic Mode to turn all lights on during the night
-- Rotating Timer for lights whilst I am away
- AC Integration
-- Incorporate heating/cooling into pre-set scenes such as "Welcome Home"

I know there is mutli-room audio but not really interested in that - the Clipsal solution looks a little clunky and I am more likely to use a SONOS for this - just wish I could find a way to integrate both together. Also not interested in the Clipsal Star-Serve system as it just seems too 'low-tech' for todays AV and Networking environment.

Any thoughts on any of the above would be appreciated.

Rgds
P1T

I suggest Control4 - it's generally cheaper than C-Bus and does all the things you're after. No extra wiring is required, is all RF (Zigbee) based. I'd suggest to wait a month or so until v1.8 (supporting Zigbee Pro) is out. The only catch is that you need to buy kit from a dealer

I have used it before and I think Cbus is a great system with heaps of great add on features. If you can get it at a cheaper price then you should definately take the opportunity.

Thanks for the responses so far - still keen to hear from others.

Control4 looks a bit ameteurish for my liking...

At the moment I am just working out some wiring layouts for the CBUS so that I can calculate how much equipment I will need. With the current solution in mind I am up for about $6k in hardware (mostly just switches) but installation should be minimal due to using wireless switches. I expect that the wired solution would be cheaper hardware-wise but with a larger up-front install cost, so still working on a wired design as well for comparison.

From what I have seen, the wireless solution actually provides a greater level of flexibility as there is a larger number of dimmer channels (2-per switch) by default. I will post up my sample design once complete as it may be something others want to look at - as said before I think the wireless switches really do put this in the realm of the common-man/woman.

Also just trying to work out now whether to go for a cut down Starserve system or invest in a 'proper' data cabinet, patch panel and switch for the networking side of my design... In a way I am glad I have so much time before pre-start as my 'electrical plan' will be heavily influenced by all this planning.

Rgds,
P1T

P1T,

You are spot on with the wireless CBUS. I posted something years ago discussing how great it is and how under appreciated it is.

Cheers,
Casa

Well, we are getting C-bus and I can't wait for it!
Not wireless though.

The C-Bus touchscreens support integration with a Logitech Squeezebox for audio duties. Add an Aaron Hifi ZA-100 amp or similar if you need it and you have a much cheaper solution than SONOS.

Thanks Jamiet - will seriously consider the Logitech in that case. ALthough I will likely end up with a small Clipsal MRA system as well just due to wiring topology (and the requirement for a CBUS power source).

Still working on my plan - will post up when complete, hopefully this weekend.

P1T

You seem to be on the right track for the lighting. With Security Integration, assuming you want an integrated alarm, you can use the Clipsal C-Bus enabled alarms, the NESS M1, the Comfort or an alarm from Inner Range. The latter is probably the best alarm (and probably the most expensive). The others are probably better at automation. I have the Ness M1 and the interface with C-Bus is not bulletproof. Some group address changes are not detected by the M1.

With AC integration, you'll find your choices are very limited. People have successfully integrated Intelligent Life (Advantage Air) air conditioners and some Daikin air conditioners. I'm sure the large commercial ones have good automation support but not sure about most of the well-known domestic models like Actron. In any case, it shouldn't be too difficult to automate on/off, but if you want more than that, you will be pretty restricted.

How did you go with you C-bus design P1T ? I am looking for something quite similair to what you are after.

mick01

Still working on it - unfortunately been sidetracked by work but aiming to have the basic design completed by the end of this week.

Will post up soon!

I have had a few people asking about this so I thought I would post it up even though it is not finished (argh - need more hours in the day!). If anybody wants the PDF versions of the plan (or visio) I am happy to email once the designs are complete.

EDIT: I have had to upload to FlickR as the board wont let me upload any images or PDF files.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41459974@N07/?saved=1

Lighting plan is still not 100% either - still trying to figure out how to light certain areas within the constraints of the CBUS wireless architecture (no switch may power more than 2 loads directly)

Also not sure what the best way is to light the entrance foyer yet...

And Lastly I have not yet decided which scenes I will be using for the CBUS or how they will be configured (lighting arrangements) - however this can be done after moving in.

For those that think the lighting plan and switch layout looks crazy (I must admit I struggle with this as well) - please remember the above rule (max 2 loads per switch) but also take into account that I can control (on/off/dim/stage/ramp) any light or load (IE motorised blind) in the house from any switch (once programmed). SO the physical location of the loads/dimmers is not so important.

Any questions or comments please fire away!

Cheers
P1T

Wow wow wow!!!
I love your house! You are so organised!
Love it!

hi p1T

looking good with cbus wireless.

just a little note about what u said about max 2 loads per switch. actualy u can have more loads per switch (u can only switch max two different circuits) as long as u dont exceed the current limit per channel. depending if its a dimmer or relay load range is from 1A-2A per channel for Dimmers to 8A total for relays.

ie:

1ch trailing edge wireless dimmer is rated for 2A. thats 480W of load. if using 50w downlights u can dim 9 lights at once using that dimmer.thats still a lot of lights.

i personaly like the wired cbus for new homes but wireless is great for retrofiting to existing wiring.

another good point of wireless if u decide to sell the house u can take the wireless stuff with u and refit the house with normal switches and dimmers. (pending the wiring has been designed in that way in first place)

good thing about cbus u can have both wireless and wired at the same time. they can talk to each other via a wireless gateway.

as for the foyer or any other light that doesnt require dimming u can use the wireless relay unit. expecialy if u using heavy loads. comes in handy (ie garage lights)

be carefull with CFL lamps. try avoid using them with any dimmers or electronic relays. dimmable cfs will cause less issues but they do have issues. u can overcome this by adding capacitance to the load to stop flickering but doesnt work all the time. from memory i think some units come with 2 capacitors per packaging for difficult load types like CFL and fans.

hmmm, you might have to take into account the transformer as well

transformer loading is negligible compared to the load they drive.

ie: electronic tranformer is approx 98% efficient most common used trany these days. trailing dimmers used
iron core is less efficient but leading edge dimming is the natural way to dimm or controll inductive loads.
iron core transformers are quite rare these days in use for halogen lighting. usualy the early halogen lighting used this tehnology.

they way to tell them appart. iron core are about twice the size and 5 times the weight compared to electronic transformers. ive seen 50W transformers size of a match box.

if dimmer is rated for 450W it can drive 450W at the rated ambient temp. obviously if ambient is high max load will drop down. they usualy spelled out in the instructions for derating curves for particular loads and ambient temps.

clispal dimmers have this protection inbuilt if they get too hot they dimm the lights automaticaly to cool its self down.

in the above example 2A is 480W 50W halogen lamps. 9 lamps is 450W still leaves 30W of headroom.

Hey all,

My house has just been handed over I chose not to go the hardwire cbus mainly due to the cost, I got the full house RC aircon instead.

Well my plan was to go for a cbus wireless solution which will interface into my Ness M1 and then using MCE to monitor and control it all http://www.ness.com.au/UserManual/Ness_ ... ual%20.pdf

I plan to go room by room with the cbus wireless as budget accommodates, I am finding doco on the cbus wireless quite hard to find, where do you get your information from? I am in Perth too wouldn't mind talking to some "experts", I have spoken to a few cbus installers and when I mention wireless I get a blank look.

Any help would be appreciated, your plans look great P1T good to see there are a few people with the same interests..

they wont tell you as they want you to get them to do it

this is a quick setup brochure for wireless......

http://www.clipsal.com/trade/__data/page/81/C181.pdf

here is a link to CIS side of the clipsal website... all cbus stuff is on this page... go to technical you will find heaps of documentations including training manuals and link to cbus forum to ask more technical questions... clipsal spends quite a bit on customer support....and most technical inf is free to download as well as updated software..

http://www3.clipsal.com/cis/portal/

i find the programing procedure a bit of a mess personaly as i hate pressing holding buttons for certain times than press this and that to get this......

i would just get the wireless gateway and use your PC to program it. lot quicker and easier.. all software to run is dowloadable through clipsal CIS website..

as for ness u can do same and more with cbus not sure the cost difference but with cbus u can do it few ways..

1. cbus home gate http://www.clipsal.com/trade/__data/page/81/C5.pdf
2. or using wiser http://www.clipsal.com/trade/__data/pag ... 000202.pdf
also another fancy thing is Schedule plus http://www.clipsal.com/trade/__data/page/81/C7.pdf

Are you guys all electricians? How are you installing the C-bus equipment?

Hi ZeroSignal - I am going to have my electrician put in the CBUS components after handover; and then I will do the programming myself via PC and the CBUS network interface.

KFC - good to see another Perth-ite that is interested in this stuff! Happy to help out if you have any queries but suggest you read through the documents mentioned by the OP first - the amount of documentation available from Clipsal is quite good (although some is a bit old-looking!). Also I am by no means an expert so bare that in mind

I have my pre-start in a few weeks (Sept-14) so I have to get a hurry on with all of this stuff now, will be putting in some hours this week and hope to have some more of my plans uploaded later this week for anyone that wants to take a look. Still need to plan out power-point locations, network termination points, alarm sensor locations and conduit locations for other devices (such as ducted AC controller, Doorbell/intercom, etc)

Cheers
P1T