Browse Forums Home Theatre & Automation 1 Jun 13, 2013 8:30 pm Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 4Jun 13, 2013 10:50 pm Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 5Jun 13, 2013 10:54 pm Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 7Jun 14, 2013 12:31 am Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 8Jun 16, 2013 1:57 am It is most certainly NOT difficult to prewire for CBus, and it's not expensive either. Or more accurately, it doesn't add very much to the cost of the CBus wiring already required. The biggest problem you will face with free information on how to go about having a CBus installation designed, wired, installed and programmed is that the information will quite often come from someone who only works in one particular area of it and the information they supply on other areas is nothing more than opinion. Mechanical engineers don't repair engines just as mechanics don't design them! (I love analogies!) And quite often the information will come from self proclaimed experts who don't work with it at all. But don't confuse that with experience from the end users, their opinion can be very valuable as they live with and use it every day. To prewire CBus for future use, you simply have the house wired as you would if you were installing CBus now, just with a simple addition and some changes to how it is terminated. I'll make it in point form so you can print it and hand it to your sparkie if you like. And if you do, first have a think about how to approach them with it or they may just tell you where you can put it! And to any sparkie/CBus integrator reading this, there will be points that are obvious to you but are included for the benefit of the forum reader who asked the question in the first place. 1. All switch wires are run back to the CBus switchboards with no loops or tails at the switch locations. They are terminated in groups as circuits at circuit breakers. By installing the switchboards now for use by the CBus relays and dimmers later, it effectively gives you some big junction boxes to terminate all the wires in now, just remember to get extra blanks as there'll be plenty of space to fill with no relays to fill them, yet. When wiring circuit feeds between the electrical switchboard and the CBus switchboards, always run some extras. 2. From the first light point on each switch wire, a twin active needs to be wired back to the switch location. This will allow temporary switching of the lights. I won't go into detail on the termination method as this will be obvious to the sparkie but won't benefit the customer to know, unless they are planning to do their own illegal wiring! This method is optimal as it also maintains the shortest possible circuit length to avoid voltage drop. It also minimises the amount of cable you will have bunched behind the switch plate and/or in the CBus switchboards. 3. All switch locations are also pre-wired with CBus network cable which is a Cat5 data cable with a pink mains voltage rated outer sheath. As this is a pre-wire and the hardware will be installed at different stages, the network will need to be continuous with no breaks, that way it doesn't matter where you start installing the CBus switches first. Leave loops where possible and make any joins behind switches that will have the temporary 240volt switching so that any joins are at locations that can be accessed easily for possible future fault finding. From personal experience I have found that phone line scotch locks work a treat and don't carry the risk of breakage associated with trying to strip such thin wires and then terminating them in screw connectors. And that's it, pre-wire done. But that's not the best bit! Not only was it simple but it also makes the future CBus installation easier and cheaper. None of the lights need to be removed and rewired for the changeover thus saving time, money and possible damage to the plaster and dirty marks on the paint from removing and rewiring downlights. The sparkie simply removes the 240volt switch, and replaces it with connectors to join the twin actives and then terminate the CBus Switch to the CBus network. And if the sparkie puts in the extra bit of effort when first fitting off the switchboards (and why wouldn't they if you were getting them back for the rest of the work) then fitting off the CBus switchboard is equally as easy as fitting off the CBus switches! Oh, and you don't want wireless if you can help it, that's a last resort option when you can't or it's not financially viable to wire a CBus network cable where there's already a 240volt feed. The wireless range should only be used in retrofits. CBus network cable is cheap compared to the price difference for wireless gear so just run loops to places you might need it later. The exception to this being power points, when you want to add a lamp to your CBus the wireless plug adapters are invaluable as they also allow you to relocate that lamp to let's say, the other side of the couch and plug it into that power point and still maintain the control over it with CBus. To achieve the same with a wired network would require a lot of extra power cable, extra relays and re-programming each time you move the lamp to another power point. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 9Jun 16, 2013 5:09 am as an electrical contractor, Ill be honest and say i find little and no benefit of cbus in a residential situation. cbus is pretty over priced for what it is . What functions where you hoping for that would benefit you ? Total Breeze Air Conditioning and Electrical - Based in Melbourne http://www.totalbreeze.com.au Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 10Jun 16, 2013 11:54 am octain as an electrical contractor, Ill be honest and say i find little and no benefit of cbus in a residential situation. cbus is pretty over priced for what it is . What functions where you hoping for that would benefit you ? I like the fact that I can control things remotely. A friend of mines father had what i now know as Cbus about 10 years ago and I used to think his house was about as close to wizardry as you could get. All jokes aside. I love the idea of being able to come home to a house with the temp just right and lights on. I like the idea that if I am away I can still monitor my home. The rest is pure lazy and decadence but well its my house and i want it lol. IF i could list functions it would be Light Control Temperature Control Curtains/ Blinds Ability to unlock door remotely Maybe open or close windows as well if possible we had our laundry room soaked because of how the window is and when it rains hard the wind pushes it into the window and down the wall. I'd love to be able to have it shut at first signs of rain. Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 11Jun 16, 2013 11:57 am BrightSpark It is most certainly NOT difficult to prewire for CBus, and it's not expensive either. Or more accurately, it doesn't add very much to the cost of the CBus wiring already required. The biggest problem you will face with free information on how to go about having a CBus installation designed, wired, installed and programmed is that the information will quite often come from someone who only works in one particular area of it and the information they supply on other areas is nothing more than opinion. Mechanical engineers don't repair engines just as mechanics don't design them! (I love analogies!) And quite often the information will come from self proclaimed experts who don't work with it at all. But don't confuse that with experience from the end users, their opinion can be very valuable as they live with and use it every day. To prewire CBus for future use, you simply have the house wired as you would if you were installing CBus now, just with a simple addition and some changes to how it is terminated. I'll make it in point form so you can print it and hand it to your sparkie if you like. And if you do, first have a think about how to approach them with it or they may just tell you where you can put it! And to any sparkie/CBus integrator reading this, there will be points that are obvious to you but are included for the benefit of the forum reader who asked the question in the first place. 1. All switch wires are run back to the CBus switchboards with no loops or tails at the switch locations. They are terminated in groups as circuits at circuit breakers. By installing the switchboards now for use by the CBus relays and dimmers later, it effectively gives you some big junction boxes to terminate all the wires in now, just remember to get extra blanks as there'll be plenty of space to fill with no relays to fill them, yet. When wiring circuit feeds between the electrical switchboard and the CBus switchboards, always run some extras. 2. From the first light point on each switch wire, a twin active needs to be wired back to the switch location. This will allow temporary switching of the lights. I won't go into detail on the termination method as this will be obvious to the sparkie but won't benefit the customer to know, unless they are planning to do their own illegal wiring! This method is optimal as it also maintains the shortest possible circuit length to avoid voltage drop. It also minimises the amount of cable you will have bunched behind the switch plate and/or in the CBus switchboards. 3. All switch locations are also pre-wired with CBus network cable which is a Cat5 data cable with a pink mains voltage rated outer sheath. As this is a pre-wire and the hardware will be installed at different stages, the network will need to be continuous with no breaks, that way it doesn't matter where you start installing the CBus switches first. Leave loops where possible and make any joins behind switches that will have the temporary 240volt switching so that any joins are at locations that can be accessed easily for possible future fault finding. From personal experience I have found that phone line scotch locks work a treat and don't carry the risk of breakage associated with trying to strip such thin wires and then terminating them in screw connectors. And that's it, pre-wire done. But that's not the best bit! Not only was it simple but it also makes the future CBus installation easier and cheaper. None of the lights need to be removed and rewired for the changeover thus saving time, money and possible damage to the plaster and dirty marks on the paint from removing and rewiring downlights. The sparkie simply removes the 240volt switch, and replaces it with connectors to join the twin actives and then terminate the CBus Switch to the CBus network. And if the sparkie puts in the extra bit of effort when first fitting off the switchboards (and why wouldn't they if you were getting them back for the rest of the work) then fitting off the CBus switchboard is equally as easy as fitting off the CBus switches! Oh, and you don't want wireless if you can help it, that's a last resort option when you can't or it's not financially viable to wire a CBus network cable where there's already a 240volt feed. The wireless range should only be used in retrofits. CBus network cable is cheap compared to the price difference for wireless gear so just run loops to places you might need it later. The exception to this being power points, when you want to add a lamp to your CBus the wireless plug adapters are invaluable as they also allow you to relocate that lamp to let's say, the other side of the couch and plug it into that power point and still maintain the control over it with CBus. To achieve the same with a wired network would require a lot of extra power cable, extra relays and re-programming each time you move the lamp to another power point. I am going to take this with me to my electrical appointment. Thank you so much. Surprisingly I actually understand what you are suggesting. You wouldnt happen to live in Ballarat I'd hire you in a heatbeat Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 12Jun 16, 2013 1:31 pm If using CBus to simply turn on some lights then yes, I agree that CBus in a residential situation can be nothing more than a toy to play with and show off, it would be there purely for "wank factor" I have seen CBus installations where a few sensors and a couple of timers would have done the same job for a fraction of the cost. I have made suggestions to customers in the past how we could do the same thing cheaper without CBus, but I don't pressure them into not using it just because I don't see the point. I'll just help them to better understand what they're getting and what it can do so that they can make a more informed decision. BellaButterfly wants to do a lot more than switch a few lights. Add Wiser and they can turn on the oven, heater and electric blanket from an iPhone or Android Phone before leaving the office and open the garage door/front gate before entering the street. Or how about home security? Most people aren't aware of CBus' potential and how it can be easily integrated into most alarms, surveilance systems and door control. Picture this, you're at work and you get a call from one of your kids, they've lost their keys to the house. Using the wiser on your phone you access the camera at your front door to see your loved one standing at the front gate in the rain, you then remotely open the front gate, open the front door, turn off the alarm and turn on the heater before they are half way up the garden path. CBus does have a valid place in residential situations, even if the installation is basic and only automates a few lights, if that's what somebody wants who are we to change their mind? Talking someone out of what they want is no better than talking them into something they didn't want in the first place. Custom touch screen interfaces are probably my favorite part of an installation as I can really go nuts with it from basic floor plans to scrolling full colour floorplans with animated buttons to photos of a room where touching the item on the photo controls it, like the light, curtains, doors, heater zones, projector screen and so on. A photo of the room with the lights on and then off gives the visual representation that the lights are on or off, you can have a still or flapping ribbon on the heater duct. I could go on and on, page after page. It really is that easy and adaptable. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 13Jun 16, 2013 1:39 pm Ah, there you go, taking several hours to write a post inbetween playing with kids and making lunch means you miss other posts in the interim. I'm based in Mornington, but we go a lot further than Ballarat for work. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 14Jun 16, 2013 2:29 pm Light Control? Easy Temperature control? Depends on the system. Replacing a thermostat on the wall? Easy. Connecting directly to a split system on the wall? A bit more complicated and can rely on modifying internal circuits that WILL void a warranty. You can also buy CBus compatible heating and cooling prducts off the shelf. Curtains/ Blinds? Easy Ability to unlock door remotely? Easy Maybe open or close windows as well if possible we had our laundry room soaked because of how the window is and when it rains hard the wind pushes it into the window and down the wall. I'd love to be able to have it shut at first signs of rain. How about rain and humidity sensors to close windows at the first sign of rain? There are auxillary inputs for CBus that will allow you to connect just about anything you like to add to the control of your house by other third party products. You can connect doorbells, PIR's, reed switches or microswitches on doors. Be notified remotely when someone rings the doorbell or enters your home. What you can do is limited only by your imagination... and the abilities of the sparkie/integrator. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 15Jun 16, 2013 3:43 pm BrightSpark Light Control? Easy Temperature control? Depends on the system. Replacing a thermostat on the wall? Easy. Connecting directly to a split system on the wall? A bit more complicated and can rely on modifying internal circuits that WILL void a warranty. You can also buy CBus compatible heating and cooling prducts off the shelf. Curtains/ Blinds? Easy Ability to unlock door remotely? Easy Maybe open or close windows as well if possible we had our laundry room soaked because of how the window is and when it rains hard the wind pushes it into the window and down the wall. I'd love to be able to have it shut at first signs of rain. How about rain and humidity sensors to close windows at the first sign of rain? There are auxillary inputs for CBus that will allow you to connect just about anything you like to add to the control of your house by other third party products. You can connect doorbells, PIR's, reed switches or microswitches on doors. Be notified remotely when someone rings the doorbell or enters your home. What you can do is limited only by your imagination... and the abilities of the sparkie/integrator. Do you have a website for your business. Our build doesn't start until November however our builder advised that if we were looking to do things outside of the normal wiring it would be best to hire the person we wanted to use post handover to get the preliminary work out of the way. I had plans on contacting a few companies for information and i'd be happy to get you to quote in as well. You seem to understand what we want. Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 16Jun 16, 2013 3:45 pm Picture this, you're at work and you get a call from one of your kids, they've lost their keys to the house. Using the wiser on your phone you access the camera at your front door to see your loved one standing at the front gate in the rain, you then remotely open the front gate, open the front door, turn off the alarm and turn on the heater before they are half way up the garden path This is exactly what I want to be able to do. My partner looses her keys daily and a few times so have I and its hell fire and damnation to get back down to the CBD from my current home to get some keys so I'd imagine trying to get from Ballarat to Melbourne would be worse. Especially in time for the kids. I cant see myself having my child stuck outside for the hour it would take me to get back from work. Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 17Jun 16, 2013 3:49 pm What would something like this be cost wise. I had a look at the clipsal site and the bits and pieces are not as expensive as I initially thought. Also in terms of the heating and cooling. Do you have any suggestions as to which brands to buy thats something else we can provision for and have fitted after handover. Bear in mind it needs to be a strong system our house is close to 60 squares over 2 stories Decorate your home. It gives the illusion that your life is more interesting than it really is. MY BUILD THREAD https://forum.homeone.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65479&p=1035832#p1035832 Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 18Jul 17, 2013 10:07 pm C Bus is over priced. Just run cat 5 or 6 cable to everywhere automation is required: Light switches, Power points Blinds Windows Thermostats / sensors Doors Etc Micro controllers are cheap and the possibilities are limitless. Just run cable everywhere, decide if going to one central location or a couple in the house. 550m2 is massive. I'm not sure with the CBus if the relays are centralised or not. Good Luck Pulpo Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 19Aug 16, 2013 9:12 pm BellaButterfly Picture this, you're at work and you get a call from one of your kids, they've lost their keys to the house. Using the wiser on your phone you access the camera at your front door to see your loved one standing at the front gate in the rain, you then remotely open the front gate, open the front door, turn off the alarm and turn on the heater before they are half way up the garden path This is exactly what I want to be able to do. My partner looses her keys daily and a few times so have I and its hell fire and damnation to get back down to the CBD from my current home to get some keys so I'd imagine trying to get from Ballarat to Melbourne would be worse. Especially in time for the kids. I cant see myself having my child stuck outside for the hour it would take me to get back from work. I don't want to discourage you because everybody is different & what makes you happy is worth the money, but home automation with full systems like cbus is such a waste of money & complicated. Let me just explain the complicated part, if you want changes you have to reprogram things & it's not as easy as just changing one simple block of the program. Yes if your a person that likes to learn & understand then not such a pain but believe me even people that use it everyday make mistakes programming changes. Then there is parts becoming superseded & new versions not compatible I see it every day in building automation, there is never any guarantee a part will be available after a certain time frame. Your example above is a very complex & expensive exercise just to open a door if there is a lost key, to be blunt a simple lock with key pad entry solves that problem. You also find so many items you wish to automate in a home come supplied with cordless remote anyway & there are remote controls that can be programmed to replace many so you still have the one access point. I also read above the suggestion about using a plc, which is a much better option than cbus & your not locked into the one brand system & there are many software packages aval for simple display front ends for programming. I'm building a new home at the moment & have the luxury or having all the cbus gear needed to do everything even the kitchen sink but my home won't be having any of it installed. I prefer sensor touch dimmers which simply mount as a light switch, I use motion sensor with timer for outside lights. I hate motion sensor lights activated when you walk in rooms which is a common cbus practise because for example you have a bath & relax (not moving) & the light goes off, yes you can program to stay on say with a touch of wall switch but hell why not turn on wall switch in the first place. Home automation is so over rated & sells because people think it's flashy which it is but in the real world it does nothing you can't do in a much simpler way but that's just me being simple. Re: Can you Prewire for Clipsal CBus 20Aug 17, 2013 7:11 pm BellaButterfly This is exactly what I want to be able to do. My partner looses her keys daily and a few times so have I and its hell fire and damnation to get back down to the CBD from my current home to get some keys so I'd imagine trying to get from Ballarat to Melbourne would be worse. Especially in time for the kids. I cant see myself having my child stuck outside for the hour it would take me to get back from work. That's why I use a biometric lock for the front door; keypad and fingerprint. The one I have is a bit more than the normal one, in that you have groups (Admin, Users and Guests), where Admin can unlock, enroll new users and reset PIN, Users can unlock, and Guests can unlock, but for a set time period (ie permission expires). Would also be nice if I can remotely open the door to let tradespeople in (can remotely disable alarm), but there was also concern about security with noone around. 2 11518 Hey everyone Not for me or anyone I know, just generally interested. For a single allotment house, are you allowed to take the fence on both sides of your house and… 0 21533 I've just had a look at the website. The company are just building broker's. There are plenty of similar companies that basically draw your plans (they own them so you… 8 11848 |