Building A New House
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel3
Jun 01, 2020 9:25 pm
I'm also planning on building the Vantage with a split level design and have opted for the Hebel option on the Lodge facade. The only thing I was concerned about is how the house would look from the street front and asked if I could break the look up a bit with the use of bricks on the pillars, but have been told that's not possible.
I wouldn’t be worried about Hebel, I've heard many great things about it. My understanding is that its been around for about 20 years and there doesn’t seem to be too many issues. I've spoken to an owner of a Hebel built home and they say the thermal and sound insulation can't be compared to a conventional brick veneer. The only issue that I am aware of is that you cannot drill into and bolt things to the facade as you can do on a conventional brick home.
Hope this helps.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel5
Jun 01, 2020 9:43 pm
You still can attach stuff to Hebel using AAC dowels.
That's great then.. was told by Metricon wasn't possible to attached clothes lines, garden hoses, blinds etc.. cheers
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel6
Jun 01, 2020 9:53 pm
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel7
Jun 02, 2020 9:13 am
Fixing is very poor into Hebel Powerpanel. If you read that document it will support what the builder has told you.
Things like down pipes, lights, lightweight garden ornaments are okay.
The quality of Hebel has been reduced over the years so the insulation benefits have reduced. Really considered similar to the polystyrene cladding products that are on the market.
A lot of houses get cracking at the joints because of poor installation and render systems that don’t include any mesh reinforcing.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel8
Jun 02, 2020 12:51 pm
You are contradicting yourself. If relatively heavy downpipes are okay, what else is not okay then? It is only 75 mm board, hence, it makes sense to attach heavy really stuff directly to studs.
Hebel is not specifically insulation product (it is not completely replacing insulation). Polystyrene is, but you wouldn't be putting polystyrene to you ground floor, as it is soft. Plus polystryrene does not have very good vapour permeability when comparing to Hebel and its fire retardant VOC content can cause health issues too (this is why it was banned in Europe and US for a while). I would be very careful with putting just any polystryrene cladding on your house, make sure it doesn't contain HBCD in it (brominated fire retandand).
Poor installation of any building product can be cause issues, even of such simple product as brick.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel9
Jun 02, 2020 2:13 pm
Downpipes aren't heavy, light fixtures and fittings are okay. Clotheslines, gates, awnings etc will not hold.
Hebel is a closed cavity construction like polystyrene cladding (which is allowed to be used) and therefore should be waterproof (caulking, paint coat). Same with solid Hebel blocks or solid masonry(no cavity, must have paint coat, caulking)
Most Hebel homes are not rendered correctly because they do not have a final “paint” coat applied. Dulux, Unitex, Mac, Rockcote systems all require a paint coat. Hebel also asks for a 1mm crack bridging coating system which you will not achieve without painting.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel10
Jun 02, 2020 2:46 pm
Well, CSR tells us it will hold clothesline. I guess if it won't, you get a warranty situation.
Solid Hebel blocks do not require special treatment such as caulking, but are generally required to be rendered with render that is waterproof which is generally either acrylic or silicone or silicate render. Same for the panels. Just follow render manufacturer guidelines and you will be okay.
Such renders generally come in two layers, with base layer and finish layer and mesh has to be used in between. Paint is already integrated into the finish layer.
BTW, best lifetime comes from silicon renders (25 years+), acrylic systems are more on a "cheapish side".
Also, some renders can be machine rendered, which improves rendering speed up to 4x.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel11
Jun 02, 2020 8:04 pm
Render manufacturers require the walls to be painted, yes some specify a mesh embedment into basecoat which helps with crack bridging. They do have mineral based systems (earthen natural pigmented renders) but these would not pass.
That is incorrect about paint being integrated into the final render coat ( I assume you mean "Texture" "Colour"). They are a great finish coat, neat and tidy but they are not waterproof or do they form a film as required for closed cavity wall systems.
When soil is placed against the 2 coat system moisture with migrate into the entire render but the "texture" will generally not blister over time like paint.
With the system you describe, after rain or hosing a wall the colour will darken which is the "render" absorbing h2O, ie not waterproof.
CSR does not provide any warranty for coating of fixings.
How do you find and fix heavy items back to studs or provide back blocking prior to plaster and panels going on for things you have not made your mind up on?
In the scheme of things there are some minor issues with Hebel Powerpanel XL but as a collective you see the product in a different light.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel12
Jun 02, 2020 8:22 pm
I wonder why would manufacturers produce a premix textured render coats if, as you say, they advice systems to be painted after?
They are waterproof and 20 times thicker than paint and clearly are not required to be painted.
Also, why would you put soil against the render, I wonder?
Silocone/silicate renders are waterproof too and won't change the colour under the rain.
Those renders exist for ages and I still yet to meet someone painting over textured coat with colour or over silicon/silicate render.
As for fixing, CSR is specifying Toy-YTox Ramplug to attach medium duty items to Hebel.
So if to some reason Hebel won't be able to hold the load specified (26 kg), this will become the warranty case.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel13
Jun 02, 2020 8:56 pm
are you referring to Keim silicate paint?
Of course they are 20 times thicker than paint because there main ingredient is sand or marble chip, approximately 70-75% solids per bucket.
Rockcote: Refer to their System Guide and Warranty spec.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel14
Jun 02, 2020 9:01 pm
I am referring to silicate and silicone renders, not paints. There are many of those, such as:
Check out Rockcote coloured renders I provided in the link, they all have TDS files there, e.g.
It clearly says it doesn't require any painting, as otherwise why would they integrate paint into it?
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel15
Jun 02, 2020 9:09 pm
We are discussing Hebel Powerpanel XL.
Check the Rockcote System page, all systems over 75mm Hebel Powerpanel have Armour or Clearcoat/Repel
The often used 2 coat system (base & texture) still requires Armour coat x 2
They may offer short term warranties, but have not been able to find any info on the link you sent.
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel16
Jun 02, 2020 9:14 pm
Armoured mesh has nothing to do with painting over requirement, it is just a plastic mesh which is embedded into the base coat.
TDS link I sent clearly tells that it can be over coated with ROCKCOTE Repel, Clearcote, Armour or Armour Flex, for added durability and lower maintenance..
Re: Mode Facade Vantage(Metricon) - Hebel20
Jun 02, 2020 9:52 pm
This is what I found helpful:
http://www.ubiq.com.au/images/pdfs/Coat ... y-2016.pdf
Some coloured render systems such as Concote I mentioned before, do not require painting over but would need 2 layers of render and come with only 7.5 years warranty, but other ones need to be painted and get 15 year warranty. Therefore, it looks like we are talking about 2 different render systems here, but you are correct saying that painting will be needed for some of the systems to extend warranty.
I feel that life is much easier with silicone renders, where one coat has both color and provides 25 year+ protection (on top of base coat with mesh). I don’t really understand how they still manage to sell those acrylic ones requiring so much effort and still costing a fortune. One can get machine ready silicone render from Europe for $10 per sqm those days.
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